2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacman]

Because it compels the PC to change for the NPC, instead of the other way around?

 

That's why I love Sera. In DA2 I told Merrill that it is not worth to pursue something lost to ages if it only gives you pain (rivalmance). This time I have Sera to say that to ME. You have no idea how surprised I was by that conversation. I loved hawke!merrill rivalmance so much and now I'm on the other side. It is good that I also played as someone who is indifferent about dalish and when Josie asked about my personal life my response was that it is time to make a name for myself and that I always wanted to leave the clan to see rest of the world.

 

Offtopic: Also, I see you already embraced Korrasami. I was literally crying during that scene

[Pacman]

Sera in grumpy Solas voice "Hmm. The veil is fat here."

Just another one of Seras lines that actually had me throwing my head back and chortling hysterically.

 

Didn't she say "the veil is limp here" ? Or does she say both lines?

[WildOrchid]

I loved hawke!merrill rivalmance so much

 

Thank god Xilizhra is not around to read this.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

And more reason for me to say "Ugh, dumb arse chit." I hate stupidity and, that goes in or out of a game. If you're too stupid to sit down and listen, and think about a differnt point of view, or even learn to to speak properly and make sense, I don't need you in my life or my game. Sera is one of the stupid people.

[Pacman]

Thank god Xilizhra is not around to read this.

 

Sorry I'm pretty new here, I don't know the names of the people yet. Care to explain why ?

[Aimi]

For Dragon Age, I don't recall being able to make any character forsake their religious beliefs for a romance.

I said "change". You know, the entire point of rivalmancing in DA2, and of hardening/softening Leliana and Alistair in DA:O. I didn't say "religious change" specifically.

And how often, really, do BioWare romance arcs, or even BioWare character relationship arcs, push the player into changing an opinion or a belief rather than forcing the NPC to "develop"? Most of the time, the characters exist for the player to mold: player-character as God-Arbiter of All the Feels. It can get preposterous to the extent that some people on this forum have suggested that many companions have severe psychological dependency issues. But a lot of players want that fantasy of being able to determine everything about their world, and when they can't make it work how they want it to, they respond badly. Everything from character sexualities and opinions, to political realities in the game world, to the color and cut of their character's clothes.

For a lot of these people, there are only two kinds of game. They would describe them as "games that let me make choices that matter" and "railroads"; I would describe them as "godlike power fantasies" and "slightly more realistic depictions of individual choice".
 

It's problematic because Sera got into the relationship knowing Lavellan was Dalish, and now expects her love interest to suddenly give up her religious beliefs or else their relationship is over.

First of all, "knowing Lavellan was Dalish" means basically nothing, because "being Dalish" and "being convinced of the reality of the Creators and of the Dalish explanation for their existence" are not the same thing. And, y'know, even if Sera did know that, it's an entirely different thing to be religious in that way in a world where it isn't relevant, and to be religious in that way in a world where holy balls these things are RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Maybe she thought she could deal with it, but when it was staring her in the face she was like nope nope nope.

But more importantly, that isn't problematic either. Even if Sera knew the elfquisitor was super-elfy-Dalish when the relationship started, and even if that ended up being the reason that they broke up, how is that bad? Again, wrestling over religious questions is a fairly common and normal reason for relationships to fall apart. It's just how things are.

[jlb524]

Didn't she say "the veil is limp here" ? Or does she say both lines?

I think she has a few variations of that line. IIRC, she calls the veil girly too.

[Icinix]

Didn't she say "the veil is limp here" ? Or does she say both lines?

 

Haven't heard that one, but wouldn't be surprised if there was a few others as well.

[Medhia_Nox]

Just had a fight with Sera after she beats a nobleman to death... I find her to be quite hypocritical.

 

But I didn't kick her out of the Inquisition because I would find that also hypocritical.  

 

It isn't that her assault was unprovoked - it is.  It isn't that she's part of a poor man's rogue's guild... I knew that when I brought her on.  It isn't that she killed the man while I was talking to him... I get "why" she did it.

 

It's that she's totally uninterested in even considering that she's as bad as the people she punishes. Instead - she resorts to a BSN argument:  "Fine, you're a goose-stepping fascist... I'll be sure to obey."  - Yeah, not at all what I said Sera. 

[WildOrchid]

Sorry I'm pretty new here, I don't know the names of the people yet. Care to explain why ?

 

Oh, she doesn't like it when ppl rivalmance Merrill.

[BloodyTalon]

You know on the plus side this thread proves why her song fits her.

Just fun reading.

[Pacman]

Oh, she doesn't like it when ppl rivalmance Merrill.

 

Well I guess she has an opinion about it. Everyone is different, we can't all like same things

[LobselVith8]

That's why I love Sera. In DA2 I told Merrill that it is not worth to pursue something lost to ages if it only gives you pain (rivalmance). This time I have Sera to say that to ME. You have no idea how surprised I was by that conversation. I loved hawke!merrill rivalmance so much and now I'm on the other side.

 

I don't see the comparison. Merrill studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard, while Hawke knows next to nothing about elven culture or the Eluvian, and tells her that she's wrong from a place of ignorance, while Sera breaks up with Lavellan for saying that she believes in the elven gods.

 

It is good that I also played as someone who is indifferent about dalish and when Josie asked about my personal life my response was that it is time to make a name for myself and that I always wanted to leave the clan to see rest of the world.

 

It was different for the players who played as a Lavellan who didn't forsake their culture, and had Sera suddenly expect them to abandon their cultural and religious beliefs out of nowhere.

 

Sorry I'm pretty new here, I don't know the names of the people yet. Care to explain why ?

 

In part, Xil thinks that Hawke talking from a place of complete ignorance about the Eluvians doesn't really give her much cause to tell Merrill she's wrong about something she's studied and researched extensively.

[XvAegisFangvX]

Well I guess she has an opinion about it. Everyone is different, we can't all like same things

What a boring world that would make if everyone liked the same things. BSN would be non- existent. 

[WildOrchid]

Well I guess she has an opinion about it. Everyone is different, we can't all like same things

 

Not disagreeing with you there, she's just..... passionate about it.

[LobselVith8]

I said "change". You know, the entire point of rivalmancing in DA2, and of hardening/softening Leliana and Alistair in DA:O. I didn't say "religious change" specifically.

 

While I said religious change, which is why I stayed on-topic when you responded to me and tried to deviate from the issue I was addressing.

 

And how often, really, do BioWare romance arcs, or even BioWare character relationship arcs, push the player into changing an opinion or a belief rather than forcing the NPC to "develop"? Most of the time, the characters exist for the player to mold: player-character as God-Arbiter of All the Feels. It can get preposterous to the extent that some people on this forum have suggested that many companions have severe psychological dependency issues. But a lot of players want that fantasy of being able to determine everything about their world, and when they can't make it work how they want it to, they respond badly. Everything from character sexualities and opinions, to political realities in the game world, to the color and cut of their character's clothes.

 

I find the two issues to be quite different from one another. My Surana Warden disagreeing with Morrigan about what Flemeth taught her about love, for example, is very different than Anders trying to push his Andrastian religious views on Merrill. Also, I never saw the point to a romantic relationship where you completely changed the person, and it's something you don't have to participate in. I liked playing as an atheist Surana Warden, and finding friendship and romance with Morrigan as an equal, and finding common ground on a number of ideas and issues. My Warden agreed with her on issues, I disagreed on others, and we challenged one another as partners.

 

First of all, "knowing Lavellan was Dalish" means basically nothing, because "being Dalish" and "being convinced of the reality of the Creators and of the Dalish explanation for their existence" are not the same thing. And, y'know, even if Sera did know that, it's an entirely different thing to be religious in that way in a world where it isn't relevant, and to be religious in that way in a world where holy balls these things are RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Maybe she thought she could deal with it, but when it was staring her in the face she was like nope nope nope.

 

If Sera knew? I don't see how the possibility could have escaped her. The Dalish are criminals under Chantry law for believing in the Creators, which is part of the reason they have such an antagonistic relationship with Andrastian society; I'd say that it shouldn't be a surprise for anyone if Lavellan believes in the Creators, particularly Sera. I'm also not certain what Sera's views about the world have to do with Lavellan, who is her own person.

 

But more importantly, that isn't problematic either. Even if Sera knew the elfquisitor was super-elfy-Dalish when the relationship started, and even if that ended up being the reason that they broke up, how is that bad? Again, wrestling over religious questions is a fairly common and normal reason for relationships to fall apart. It's just how things are.

 

Breaking up with someone you've dated for a while because they won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs is most certainly problematic, and I'm trying to be diplomatic about it.

[ShadowWeaver2012]

She is a psychopath with no character development....

 

Sera is like Jack / Subject Zero with no character development or character arc...

 

Omg so TRUE... at least Jack was able to learn to deal with some things and become useful in society....

 

I wanted to like Sera. I really did. But really the amount of hate she carried for so many things became a chore to deal with later on.

 

She is anti-establishment, and your Inquisitor IS an establishment. She doesn't like being told what to do, and yet you play the role of her leader.

 

She doesn't like Orlais, which I can understand, but she also doesn't like elves. She joins the Inquisition because she wants things to settle down and go back to where they were. But she hates everything.

[Pacman]

It was different for the players who played as a Lavellan who didn't forsake their culture, and had Sera suddenly expect them to abandon their cultural and religious beliefs out of nowhere.

 

I have seen this posted a lot and I do not question people that decided to break up with Sera because they were role playing as Dalish that cherish their culture. I was very happy that BW provided a possibility to chose your background which IMO greatly adds to the RP experience. 

 

In part, Xil thinks that Hawke talking from a place of complete ignorance about the Eluvians doesn't really give her much cause to tell Merrill she's wrong about something she's studied and researched extensively.

 

The main reason I tried to convince Merrill to stop pursuing this because people she cared about so much died because of her actions. And she would always be heartbroken about it. Exile, death of friends, keeper and possibly the entire clan. Maybe some believe that is a reasonable price to pay for knowledge of their culture but not me. I don't like to be apathetic so doing nothing is not an option for me and I don't really feel like encouraging someone to pursue their goals if path to success is covered in blood and loneliness. That's my take on this at least.

[Medhia_Nox]

My criticisms of her being what they are... I'd still chose Sera over Merrill every time.

[Dabrikishaw]

Eh, I kill Merrill's clan and convince her to keep working on the mirror because I never came to like anyone there and they eventually pissed me off. 

[Ryzaki]

My criticisms of her being what they are... I'd still chose Sera over Merrill every time.

What?

 

aww poor Merrill. Merrill's actually not that bad. A little misguided but ultimately not that bad. Her heart was in the right place.

 

Sera on the other hand...ick.

[WildOrchid]

What?

 

aww poor Merrill. Merrill's actually not that bad. A little misguided but ultimately not that bad. Her heart was in the right place.

 

Sera on the other hand...ick.

 

So is Sera's. Being "rude" to you doesn't mean she doesn't have a nice heart. She just shows it differently and, while confusing, she still wants the good for the people.

 

 

It's all on the approval/disapproval part and it shows.

[Ryzaki]

So is Sera's. Being "rude" to you doesn't mean she doesn't have a nice heart. She just shows it differently and, while confusing, she still wants the good for the people.

 

 

It's all on the approval/disapproval part and it shows.

 

I disagree *shrug*

 

Eh I disagreed with plenty of people in origins as well and tolerated them far far more than I do Sera.

[Sully13]

Because some people just suck.

[WildOrchid]

I disagree *shrug*

 

Eh I disagreed with plenty of people in origins as well and tolerated them far far more than I do Sera.

 

Well, we all agree or disagree. Just stating something that has been proven many times in game, and through her romance. She does care. Too much, for her own good tbh.