2858 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

If Sera knew? I don't see how the possibility could have escaped her. The Dalish are criminals under Chantry law for believing in the Creators, which is part of the reason they have such an antagonistic relationship with Andrastian society; I'd say that it shouldn't be a surprise for anyone if Lavellan believes in the Creators, particularly Sera. I'm also not certain what Sera's views about the world have to do with Lavellan, who is her own person.

So you don't think one could RP a Dalish that isn't convinced the Creators are real, and maybe doesn't think the Andrastians have it right either? No room for agnostics in your world view, or outright atheists? I'd say it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Lavellan doesn't believe in any of that crap.

I'm not sure what Lavellan's view of the world should have to do with molding Sera, who is also her own person. A fact that seems to offend you to no end. So because Sera is an NPC, she's not allowed to be her own person? After all, you're wanting to project Lavellan's world view onto Sera with no backtalk, or any kind of adverse reaction, but think it's The Bad Thing^TM when the tables are turned?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ryzaki:  Part of it is because I can sympathize with Sera's plight more.  She's still myopic in her thinking (like all elves in DA evidently) - but at least she's picked a group based not on race, but on social standing... I feel like I can agree with that more. 

 

Helping "Downtrodden elves." is selfish to me... helping "downtrodden everyone" seems more altruistic (even if her methods are totally backward).

 

Blood mage and demon collusion are worse, to me, than being a poor person who hates rich people... 

 

However, beating a man while I'm talking to him... I could not let stand unchallenged.  Much disapproval was earned in that conversation and I seriously considered giving her the boot. 

 

Merrill... I just left her alone in her little shack in the alienage because I didn't trust her not to control herself.  

[Ryzaki]

Well, we all agree or disagree. Just stating something that has been proven many times in game, and through her romance. She does care. Too much, for her own good tbh.

 

Caring about your own pet projects and having a good heart are not the same thing.

[AzureAardvark]

Meh. Starting a new play through, I'll giver 'er another go.

[WildOrchid]

Caring about your own pet projects and having a good heart are not the same thing.

 

She cares about many things. You could've seen this if you romanced her. Or even befriended her. She does some mistakes just like everyone else but at least it's all from her good will.

 

For her is all about the low class ppl and how they're being treated.

 

But ofc, we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that since there's no point in continuing it...

[Ryzaki]

@Ryzaki:  Part of it is because I can sympathize with Sera's plight more.  She's still myopic in her thinking (like all elves in DA evidently) - but at least she's picked a group based not on race, but on social standing... I feel like I can agree with that more. 

 

Helping "Downtrodden elves." is selfish to me... helping "downtrodden everyone" seems more altruistic (even if her methods are totally backward).

 

Blood mage and demon collusion are worse, to me, than being a poor person who hates rich people... 

 

However, beating a man while I'm talking to him... I could not let stand unchallenged.  Much disapproval was earned in that conversation and I seriously considered giving her the boot. 

 

Merrill... I just left her alone in her little shack in the alienage because I didn't trust her not to control herself.  

 

Zevran wasn't that bad actually. Other than him being kind of ick in his flirts and trying to kill the PC.

 

If she was just a poor person who hates rich people I'd probably get along with her.  Hell I was looking forward to that...just the execution left me cold.

 

I did give her the boot. I don't have a single character who would honestly let that stand. Even my more laid back characters wouldn't want someone liable to do that again around. The fact that she's so "angry face at you" later about it just makes me sigh.  Assquisitor's dressing down of her brought a smile to my face. Run elf girl. Run. Making threats against someone who could crush her several times over. Damned fool. (But having Vivi pretty much constantly one up her is also pretty lulzy).

 

Aww I would rather be there for when worse comes to worse. Least then I can help with some of the fallout.

[Ryzaki]

She cares about many things. You could've seen this if you romanced her. Or even befriended her. She does some mistakes just like everyone else but at least it's all from her good will.

 

For her is all about the low class ppl and how they're being treated.

 

Yeah except I can't tolerate her enough to romance her. Just flirting with her disgusts me.

 

Unless they're elves and dare to be proud about that. Then there's a problem.

[robertthebard]

Caring about your own pet projects and having a good heart are not the same thing.

I guess that depends on what one's pet project is, doesn't it? If one's pet project is bee collecting, then most assuredly. If, however, one's pet project is helping the "less fortunate", then it's really not about profit, is it? It's not like Sera's rich or anything. If you send the wrong advisor for the Drop and Grab mission on the War Table, and the servants get fired, Sera disapproves. There's no dialog with her, it pops up on the screen as you leave the War Room. I wonder, if she doesn't care, why she disapproves. They didn't get killed, only fired. Surely if she was just in it for selfish reasons, she wouldn't care, eh?

[Steelcan]

I wake up from a lovely nap and see this going, Christmas must have come early

[Ryzaki]

I wake up from a lovely nap and see this going, Christmas must have come early

 

Well you're all dressed in your Santa hat...or is that a elf hat?

[Steelcan]

Well you're all dressed in your Santa hat...or is that a elf hat?

[WildOrchid]

Yeah except I can't tolerate her enough to romance her. Just flirting with her disgusts me.

 

Well there you go. You didn't even bother to be friends with her and let her talk to you, since you said you kicked her out. No point in continuing it, really.

 

As for the elfy thing, it's been discussed so many times already, i get a headache from just thinking all these posts.

[Ryzaki]

 

Hey I won't tell if you won't.

[Ryzaki]

Well there you go. You didn't even bother to be friends with her and let her talk to you, since you said you kicked her out. No point in continuing it, really.

 

As for the elfy thing, it's been discussed so many times already, i get a headache from just thinking all these posts.

 

I said I didn't want to flirt with her. How on earth did you translate flirt = friends?

[WildOrchid]

Myabe i should put a hat on Hawke too.....

[WildOrchid]

I said I didn't want to flirt with her. How on earth did you translate flirt = friends?

 

Nup, the friend part. I'm not talking about flirting. You have the option to be friends with her too, you know... no need to bed her.

[Ryzaki]

Nup, the friend part. I'm not talking about flirting. You have the option to be friends with her too, you know... no need to bed her.

 

I never said I didn't befriend her in my playthroughs though. I said flirting with her disgusted me and I couldn't tolerate her enough to do it and you took that and ran with it.

[LobselVith8]

So you don't think one could RP a Dalish that isn't convinced the Creators are real, and maybe doesn't think the Andrastians have it right either? No room for agnostics in your world view, or outright atheists? I'd say it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Lavellan doesn't believe in any of that crap.

 

Let me know when you're responding to something I've actually said, because this statement has nothing to do with anything I've written.

 

I'm not sure what Lavellan's view of the world should have to do with molding Sera, who is also her own person. A fact that seems to offend you to no end. So because Sera is an NPC, she's not allowed to be her own person? After all, you're wanting to project Lavellan's world view onto Sera with no backtalk, or any kind of adverse reaction, but think it's The Bad Thing^TM when the tables are turned?

 

When you're interested in addressing that Sera breaks up with Lavellan for not giving up her religious beliefs, let me know.

[robertthebard]

Let me know when you're responding to something I've actually said, because this statement has nothing to do with anything I've written.
 
 
When you're interested in addressing that Sera breaks up with Lavellan for not giving up her religious beliefs, let me know.

Sera, how did you get internet access from Thedas?

[LobselVith8]

Sera, how did you get internet access from Thedas?

 

I don't see how trolling my posts is supposed to contribute to any meaningful discussion. If you're not going to bother to respond to what I've actually said, and not simply what you can fabricate in some vain attempt to distract from Sera's rather problematic issues, then there's really little point.

[robertthebard]

I don't see how trolling my posts is supposed to contribute to any meaningful discussion. If you're not going to bother to respond to what I've actually said, and not simply what you can fabricate in some vain attempt to distract from Sera's rather problematic issues, then there's really little point.

I'm wondering, quite seriously, who's trolling whom. You apparently haven't learned that wars are fought over which God one should believe in, and I'm not talking about video games. My own anecdotal evidence wasn't enough to show you that friendships can indeed be ended over religion. You are unable to attribute things that happen in the real world to having in game equivalents, and you are unable to accept that NPCs might be written to have viewpoints that may counter your own. All of this has been pointed out multiple times over the course of this discourse, and you're still here with "but people can't break up with you over religion". The how and why this could happen was pointed out to you. Your response: But people shouldn't break up with people over religion. Why shouldn't they?

If you're too elfy, you won't get into the relationship with Sera. All the disapproval you'll get along the way will make sure that doesn't happen. So, when Lavellan dumps it on her after the temple, of course she's going to break up with you. There's two ways to look at it: You changed into someone you weren't, or, you were lying to her the whole time to get her in the sack, and either one of those reasons is reason enough to dump you. People don't appreciate being lied to, after all, and if it's the former, if you change enough, which confirming that you're too elfy would be, there's plenty of reason to dump you. I know, you don't even need to bother to type it: "But she shouldn't break up with you over religion", right?

Off to the Ballet, going to see the Nutcracker.

[AzureAardvark]

Off to the Ballet, going to see the Nutcracker.

 

Have fun!

[Felene]

I don't hate Sera, more like disappointed in her character development. After the roof top cookie talk I can understand where she is coming from but that does not justified what happen at Verchiel.

 

All her personal quest leads to no further character development, she remains as someone who doesn't care about anything but her own self, who resents making sense or any growth. Indeed, Sera is never a agreeable girl, she is like a selfish child who is forever stuck in a tantrum state. 

 

I really like Jack in the Mass Effect series, her cross game character development was great. Too bad Lukas Kristjanson didn't give Sera the same treatment in DA:I.

[LobselVith8]

I'm wondering, quite seriously, who's trolling whom.

 

Considering what you pulled with those recent posts, I'm not going to take this statement seriously. Moving on...

 

My own anecdotal evidence wasn't enough to show you that friendships can indeed be ended over religion. You are unable to attribute things that happen in the real world to having in game equivalents, and you are unable to accept that NPCs might be written to have viewpoints that may counter your own. All of this has been pointed out multiple times over the course of this discourse, and you're still here with "but people can't break up with you over religion". The how and why this could happen was pointed out to you. Your response: But people shouldn't break up with people over religion. Why shouldn't they?

 

You're making statements with no context. First off, Lavellan is Dalish, a member of an ethnic group who are known to follow the Creators, and are vilified by some for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that Lavellan necessarily has the same beliefs as the People, but it's clearly not something that should come as a surprise to Sera. Lavellan is known to be Dalish, Lavellan has vallaslin, and prior to this confrontation, it's made abundantly clear that the elven Inquisitor is one of the People. When Lavellan says that she believes in the elven gods (in this particular scenario), it shouldn't come as any surprise to Sera. Instead of accepting that Lavellan doesn't share Sera's Andrastian views, she ends the relationship because Lavellan won't abandon her religious beliefs for her.

 

My issue is with what Sera does when Lavellan simply admits that she believes in the elven gods, and it shows a rather ugly side to Sera. You don't date someone, have sex with them, and then give them an ultimatum to abandon their religion simply because it differs from your own; that's repugnant.

 

If you're too elfy, you won't get into the relationship with Sera. All the disapproval you'll get along the way will make sure that doesn't happen. So, when Lavellan dumps it on her after the temple, of course she's going to break up with you. There's two ways to look at it: You changed into someone you weren't, or, you were lying to her the whole time to get her in the sack, and either one of those reasons is reason enough to dump you. People don't appreciate being lied to, after all, and if it's the former, if you change enough, which confirming that you're too elfy would be, there's plenty of reason to dump you. I know, you don't even need to bother to type it: "But she shouldn't break up with you over religion", right?

 

Xil romanced Sera with Lavellan, and she was pro-Dalish and pro-mage, so I'm going to go out on a limp here and point out that it's possible to romance her while not capitulating to her every whim.

 

Furthermore, Sera shouldn't have gotten into a relationship with Lavellan in the first place if religion was such a contentious issue. Getting romantically involved in a relationship with someone who is from a different culture than you, and then tossing them aside because they won't simply give up their religion for you, isn't some admirable personality trait that should be defended at any cost.

[Hazegurl]

I befriended Sera and still gave her the boot. Not seeing how being her friend would suddenly make a person approving of all her actions and stupidity. Also she threatened me while we were so called friends, so...so much for being her friend.