2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaz83]

Really didn't like her on my first run through.

 

But now she's in my party - her banter with Blackwall is great - she's growing on me.

 

She's too immature, and way too naive... but there is a charm to her. 

[wickedgoodreed]

Considering what you pulled with those recent posts, I'm not going to take this statement seriously. Moving on...

 

 

You're making statements with no context. First off, Lavellan is Dalish, a member of an ethnic group who are known to follow the Creators, and are vilified by some for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that Lavellan necessarily has the same beliefs as the People, but it's clearly not something that should come as a surprise to Sera. Lavellan is known to be Dalish, Lavellan has vallaslin, and prior to this confrontation, it's made abundantly clear that the elven Inquisitor is one of the People. When Lavellan says that she believes in the elven gods (in this particular scenario), it shouldn't come as any surprise to Sera. Instead of accepting that Lavellan doesn't share Sera's Andrastian views, she ends the relationship because Lavellan won't abandon her religious beliefs for her.

 

My issue is with what Sera does when Lavellan simply admits that she believes in the elven gods, and it shows a rather ugly side to Sera. You don't date someone, have sex with them, and then give them an ultimatum to abandon their religion simply because it differs from your own; that's repugnant.

 

 

Xil romanced Sera with Lavellan, and she was pro-Dalish and pro-mage, so I'm going to go out on a limp here and point out that it's possible to romance her while not capitulating to her every whim.

 

Furthermore, Sera shouldn't have gotten into a relationship with Lavellan in the first place if religion was such a contentious issue. Getting romantically involved in a relationship with someone who is from a different culture than you, and then tossing them aside because they won't simply give up their religion for you, isn't some admirable personality trait that should be defended at any cost.

 

Sera makes her concerns about elfy-ness clear prior to starting a relationship with the Dalish Inquisitor. So they share equal responsibility in starting a relationship with someone from a different culture with potentially conflicting beliefs.

 

It's not just that their beliefs are different; it's that they're incompatible. "Some things just don't fit." To Sera, people are people. ("Who knew?" ) To the Dalish, only elves are the People. The Dalish believe elves need to look to the past to reclaim what it means to be "truly" elven. Sera is about the present and happy with who she is now. Ending the relationship over these differences doesn't seem that unreasonable. 

 

It does suck that the catalyst for this conversation takes place well into the relationship. It's not pretty, but it also seems true to life. And at least it's an improvement over the sometimes immersion straining relationship possibilities of DA2. (Fenris not breaking up with a bloodmage/pro-slavery Hawke, anyone?) Sera and a steadfast pro-Dalish Lavellan can give it a try, it doesn't work. Seems like a great way to make race choice matter. I started out with a proud Dalish character but by the end of the game, with all the lore revelations and a push from Sera, I saw an opportunity for character growth for my toon and enjoyed it.  If Sera outright refused to enter a relationship with a Dalish character, that would have been lost. Besides, if she gets called racist for trying, what would people call her if she didn't even bother?

[RyGuy404]

I've been using her ever since I got her. Obviously she's a bit odd, but that why I like her. Plus her banter with Blackwall is great.

[Ryzaki]

Currently doing my run with her Vivi and Blackwall.

 

Vivi is really the only saving grace for me there.

[LobselVith8]

It's not just that their beliefs are different; it's that they're incompatible. "Some things just don't fit." To Sera, people are people. ("Who knew?" ) To the Dalish, only elves are the People. The Dalish believe elves need to look to the past to reclaim what it means to be "truly" elven. Sera is about the present and happy with who she is now. Ending the relationship over these differences doesn't seem that unreasonable.

 

I think you misunderstand that term. The Dalish aren't dehumanizing other people; Elvhen literally means 'the People', and the term is simply said in the Common Language sometimes. 'The People' is actually taken from some Native American groups who used the same term, and the Dalish do share many similarities with some Native American groups.

 

Furthermore, the Dalish way of life is about survival; you can't build for the future if you're constantly on the move to survive against Andrastian humans who are a threat to you. The Dalish already adhere to certain cultural and religious values that makes them distinct from the Andrastian elves who live in the human ruled kingdoms. Trying to uncover knowledge about the past is certainly part of their lifestyle, but there's not much else that can be done until they have a homeland of their own, where they can actually build towards a future.

 

It does suck that the catalyst for this conversation takes place well into the relationship. It's not pretty, but it also seems true to life. And at least it's an improvement over the sometimes immersion straining relationship possibilities of DA2. (Fenris not breaking up with a bloodmage/pro-slavery Hawke, anyone?) Sera and a steadfast pro-Dalish Lavellan can give it a try, it doesn't work. Seems like a great way to make race choice matter. I started out with a proud Dalish character but by the end of the game, with all the lore revelations and a push from Sera, I saw an opportunity for character growth for my toon and enjoyed it.  If Sera outright refused to enter a relationship with a Dalish character, that would have been lost. Besides, if she gets called racist for trying, what would people call her if she didn't even bother?

 

Sera ending the relationship if Lavellan doesn't give up her religion already dooms the relationship to end for some people, like it did for Xil. It also doesn't paint a good picture of the character that she turns this into an ultimatum. Sera doesn't have some frank, adult conversation where she says that the two of them have irreconcilable differences; she tries to force Lavellan to give up her religious beliefs, with the threat of breaking things off otherwise.

[scrapmetals]

I don't care for her after I had more interaction for her with my elf. She can't accept anything new and refuses to even acknowledge the possibility of the Maker and the elven gods both being true or even partially true. I dislike people like that in real life.. I dislike her. *shrug* and she called me stupid for voicing an opinion. She's basically an internet troll.

[KaiserShep]

I wouldn't say internet troll, since Internet trolls are fueled primarily by anonymity and an audience.

Although, that is kinda how the Red Jennies operate.

[Hazegurl]

 

To the Dalish, only elves are the People. The Dalish believe elves need to look to the past to reclaim what it means to be "truly" elven. Sera is about the present and happy with who she is now.

 

I'm not that fond of the Dalish myself but can we please stop throwing the entire group under the bus for Sera's sake.

 

Looking to the past does not mean being stuck there, they are simply trying to hold on to their culture and religions no matter how twisted up they may had become. There is still a grain of truth to elven beliefs.  Such as the face marking, they may have gotten the purpose behind them wrong, but the markings have been preserved in detail.  Now I do agree that there are certain aspects of the past that they need to let go, such as blaming humans for all their problems et al but Sera wants them to forsake their entire culture and religion in favor of another past culture and religion based on one being the winner in her eyes.  Which is just stupid.

 

In DAO, If Lanaya becomes Keeper she is interested in the future of the clan and keeps peace with humans even as conflicts were started. Even Keeper Zathrian realized he had lived for too long and wasn't doing his clan any good (if the Warden sides with the wolves to make peace).  The entire conflict between Keeper Marethari and Merrill is due to Merrill's unwillingness to let the past go via the Eluvians.  This is proof that overall the Dalish do care about the future of their people.

 

Also, it takes two parties to put the past away and I don't see humans making a big effort to do it either. I'm not seeing how the Dalish even benefit from doing whatever it is Sera wants them to do.  Let's see, leaving the woods to live in human society means living in their human made ghettos where you can get raped and beaten at some noble's whim. Kept out of the Chantry even if you did believe in their Maker, kept from making any real money or decent living unless you become their (human's) hero. Hm, yeah I think shytting in the woods right now is a better option than being a second class citizen in someone else's society. 

[Dean_the_Young]

 

its a shame you won't see this because you blocked me

 

Lobsel blocked you?

 

Lobsel, he who barely pays attention to what people actually say when replying to them, the obsessive who twice necromanced a single dead thread because he couldn't stand to not have the final word, blocked you?

 

Wow.
 

[LobselVith8]

Lobsel blocked you?

 

Lobsel, he who barely pays attention to what people actually say when replying to them, the obsessive who twice necromanced a single dead thread because he couldn't stand to not have the final word, blocked you?

 

Wow.
 

 

I guess we should all be impressed that you didn't compare the Dalish to the Taliban this time around.

[Steelcan]

Lobsel blocked you?

 

Lobsel, he who barely pays attention to what people actually say when replying to them, the obsessive who twice necromanced a single dead thread because he couldn't stand to not have the final word, blocked you?

 

Wow.
 

My talent for alienating folks is near miraculous

[KaiserShep]

My talent for alienating folks is near miraculous

Hasn't happened to me yet. Makes sense that my heathen self is miracle proof.

[KaiserShep]

I guess we should all be impressed that you didn't compare the Dalish to the Taliban this time around.

Not until they get their hands on gaatlok.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

To me, talking to Sera goes something like this:

 

Me: Hey what do you think of the rain?

S: It's stupid.

Me How about the sun?

S: it beats down.

Me: Snow?

S: Not really real.

Me: Fog?

S: It's Stupid and so are you. I hate you.

 

Subject doesn't matter, her whole vocabulary consists of stupid, not really real, beats down. she wants the world to be black and white and simple, all the same as her and, if it isn't she gets mad rather than trying to learn anything. She's the stupid one and far too closed minded to even be in my game.

 

Her totally hating on the Dalish over spiritual beliefs is another minus. She doesn't have to agree, but she could at least say "Oh, okay, we just won't discuss it then." But no she hates you for it.

[wickedgoodreed]

'The People' is actually taken from some Native American groups who used the same term, and the Dalish do share many similarities with some Native American groups.
 
Furthermore, the Dalish way of life is about survival; you can't build for the future if you're constantly on the move to survive against Andrastian humans who are a threat to you. The Dalish already adhere to certain cultural and religious values that makes them distinct from the Andrastian elves who live in the human ruled kingdoms. Trying to uncover knowledge about the past is certainly part of their lifestyle, but there's not much else that can be done until they have a homeland of their own, where they can actually build towards a future.

 Okay. I'm unclear how any of that changes how Sera's beliefs and a pro-Dalish Lavellan's don't fit together though.

 

Sera ending the relationship if Lavellan doesn't give up her religion already dooms the relationship to end for some people, like it did for Xil. It also doesn't paint a good picture of the character that she turns this into an ultimatum. Sera doesn't have some frank, adult conversation where she says that the two of them have irreconcilable differences; she tries to force Lavellan to give up her religious beliefs, with the threat of breaking things off otherwise.

"Force" is too strong a word, imo. She seemed genuinely afraid and begged her to change. Having a completely mature conversation about it would be out of character for Sera. By that point, anyone in a relationship with her would probably know that it would be unrealistic to expect that from her. In many conversations with her, you kind of have to look past her fear and immaturity to understand what she's really trying to say. In my experience, doing so was usually worthwhile. As I said, it doesn't paint a pretty picture. Sometimes relationships are messy. But I understand where her character is coming from and do not believe she's being completely unreasonable given her beliefs.

[wickedgoodreed]

I'm not that fond of the Dalish myself but can we please stop throwing the entire group under the bus for Sera's sake.

 

Looking to the past does not mean being stuck there, they are simply trying to hold on to their culture and religions no matter how twisted up they may had become. There is still a grain of truth to elven beliefs.  Such as the face marking, they may have gotten the purpose behind them wrong, but the markings have been preserved in detail.  Now I do agree that there are certain aspects of the past that they need to let go, such as blaming humans for all their problems et al but Sera wants them to forsake their entire culture and religion in favor of another past culture and religion based on one being the winner in her eyes.  Which is just stupid.

 

In DAO, If Lanaya becomes Keeper she is interested in the future of the clan and keeps peace with humans even as conflicts were started. Even Keeper Zathrian realized he had lived for too long and wasn't doing his clan any good (if the Warden sides with the wolves to make peace).  The entire conflict between Keeper Marethari and Merrill is due to Merrill's unwillingness to let the past go via the Eluvians.  This is proof that overall the Dalish do care about the future of their people.

 

Also, it takes two parties to put the past away and I don't see humans making a big effort to do it either. I'm not seeing how the Dalish even benefit from doing whatever it is Sera wants them to do.  Let's see, leaving the woods to live in human society means living in their human made ghettos where you can get raped and beaten at some noble's whim. Kept out of the Chantry even if you did believe in their Maker, kept from making any real money or decent living unless you become their (human's) hero. Hm, yeah I think shytting in the woods right now is a better option than being a second class citizen in someone else's society. 

I honestly wasn't attempting to throw anyone under a bus.

 

Looking to the past does not necessarily mean being stuck there, no, but it can. In my opinion, the Dalish do seem stuck. They care about the future of their people, certainly. I haven't and wouldn't try to dispute that. However, their vision of that future is to bring back their former glory. And in attempting to hold on to that past, they've driven themselves into a position where they have very limited options (as you describe). According to their versions of history, they largely blame humans for this, but in reality are just as accountable, if not more so. It's tragic, really. 

 

Here's the codex entry for the Dalish:

In time, the human empires will crumble. We have seen it happen countless times. Until then, we wait, we keep to the wild border lands, we raise halla and build aravels and present a moving target to the humans around us. We try to keep hold of the old ways, to relearn what was forgotten.

We call to the ancient gods, although they do not answer and have not heard us since before the fall of Arlathan, so that one day they might remember us: Elgar'nan the Eldest of the Sun and He Who Overthrew His Father, Mythal the Protector, Fen'Harel the Dread Wolf, Andruil the Huntress, Falon'Din the Friend of the Dead, Dirthamen the Keeper of Secrets, Ghilan'nain the Mother of Halla, June the Master of Crafts, and Sylaise the Hearthkeeper.

We gather every ten years for the Arlathvhen, to retell the ancient stories and keep them alive. For when the human kingdoms are gone, we must be ready to teach the others what it means to be elves.

--Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves

 

Standard disclaimer: I realize not every clan or member within it will necessarily share the opinions of the Keeper above. But I figured I'd share it so you know where I'm coming from. That last bit in particular (emphasis mine) is what someone with Sera's beliefs would take umbrage with.

[Dean_the_Young]

I guess we should all be impressed that you didn't compare the Dalish to the Taliban this time around.

 

'We'? You and your tumor?

[Ryzaki]

'We'? You and your tumor?

 

I was drinking dean.

 

Goddamnit.

[Dean_the_Young]

I was drinking dean.

 

Goddamnit.

 

Were you drinking alone, or did you have companion built-in?

 

(Also, I notice that you spit alot when when reading my posts late at night. Remember, Ryzaki- spitters are quitters.)

[Ryzaki]

Were you drinking alone, or did you have companion built-in?

 

 

Alone sadly. I could only wish for my own companion

[Steelcan]

 

Alone sadly. I could only wish for my own companion

I'm drinking too

 

that counts I guess

[Dean_the_Young]

 

Alone sadly. I could only wish for my own companion

 

Maybe you should ask Lobsel for one. He may have spares.

 

I'm drinking too

 

that counts I guess

 

As a teetotaler, my body has learned to develop its own substitute hallucinogen. I call it 'sleep deprivation.'  

[level4paperboy]

It's because she has a very hard working-class English accent, and it's ruining the fantasy of a lot of people (the fantasy that all British accents sound similar and are all beautiful). Then there is the fact that she is a sociopath, and lots of people can't get past that.

 

I, for one, think that Sera is adorably random.

[Steelcan]

It's because she has a very hard working-class English accent, and it's ruining the fantasy of a lot of people

every British person I know has said she sounds like an actress putting on a bad accent....

 

 

 

just throwing that out there

[level4paperboy]

The funny thing is that Robyn Addison (Sera's VA) IS British.

 

IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/...?ref_=tt_cl_t10