2858 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Well she didn't make  good first impression, but I ended up liking her..... I envy her body model. More natural and that's the way elven women should look like. My elf female looks anorexic.
 
So anyway the only thing I hate about her is that she doesn't give a ***t about her own people. It's a bit annoying because she was present and the well, but still denied all that ancient elven stuff. It's understandable since she grew up in Denerim, but still..
 
I would've loved some kind of a quest or dialogues that would make her respect her people more and actually care about elven culture and heritage.

She is, however, like all City Elves, not a part of that culture. The term Flat Ear was created by the Dalish, specifically for the City Elves.

[Heimdall]

She is, however, like all City Elves, not a part of that culture. The term Flat Ear was created by the Dalish, specifically for the City Elves.

Even further, she was evidently raised by humans. She isn't thrilled by people telling her what "her" culture and heritage is. And who she should consider "her people".

[ESTAQ99]

You could literally spend hours on youtube watching banter videos, and not even scratch the surface of what she does grow into. With her second dialog in Haven, you can ask about where she's from; Ferelden. You can acknowledge you got that from her accent, and she'll hem and haw but finally go with Denerim. You can ask about any connections worth mentioning, and she'll go on about it being complicated, and she hates complicated. Later, if you've spoken to her and garnered some approval, she'll talk about her past some more, and even talk about her upbringing, the Cookies with Sera thing. From Haven to that point is a lot of development. So I'm not sure how you can say there's none, unless you just haven't spoken with her at all, or not played the game at all.

 

I think you assumed my only knowledge about Sera's character is from what I watched on youtube. I only watched those videos because I'm still dealing with the banter glitch in the game and because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss some of the interactions with companion's combinations that I didn't bring along with my inquisitor on my playthroughs. I didn't romance Sera and I don't have any intention to do so in my future playthroughs so my only chance to watch her behavior during those scenes was watching some videos. I wanted to know if she had some interesting development as a character in a more intimate situation (I ended up with an even worse opinion after watching those scenes).

 

Having said that, I had many chances to approach her and had conversations with her which just reaffirmed what I still think about her as a character and how little she evolves throughout the game. Maybe I missed something but if you would like to convince me she is more than a female chav, you need to come up with some better examples than the one you described on your reply, above.

 

Few of her rants I found funny - once or twice - but not funny enough to get the same kind of reductive, infantile and vulgar behavior every time I need to interact with her.

 

But that is just my personal opinion and I can totally understand if many gamers could find her irresistible and charming. Who knows, maybe it is just a matter of taste.

[Sharn01]

Even further, she was evidently raised by humans. She isn't thrilled by people telling her what "her" culture and heritage is. And who she should consider "her people".

I would say that is one of the good parts of her personality, unfortunately its countered by the fact that she is very hostile with anyone who does not view the world in the same way she does.  You can go through the whole game and never question her beliefs, but she will question yours regularly and get very upset and confrontational if you disagree with her. 

[robertthebard]

I think you assumed my only knowledge about Sera's character is from what I watched on youtube. I only watched those videos because I'm still dealing with the banter glitch in the game and because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss some of the interactions with companion's combinations that I didn't bring along with my inquisitor on my playthroughs. I didn't romance Sera and I don't have any intention to do so in my future playthroughs so my only chance to watch her behavior during those scenes was watching some videos. I wanted to know if she had some interesting development as a character in a more intimate situation (i ended up with an even worse opinion after watching those scenes.
 
Having said that, I had many chances to approach her and had conversations with her which just reaffirmed what I still think about her as a character and how little she evolves throughout the game. Maybe I missed something but if you would like to convince me she is more than a female chav, you need to come up with some better examples than the one you described on your reply, above.
 
Few of her rants I found funny - once or twice - but not funny enough to get the same kind of reductive, infantile and vulgar behavior every time I need to interact with her.
 
But that just my personal opinion and I can totally understand if many gamers could find her irresistible and charming. Who knows, maybe it is just a matter of taste.

Not much point to it, is there? A. It's not on me to force you to like or dislike her. B. You've said you've seen all the conversations, and didn't see any growth. If you can't see it in game, with cutscenes, you're not going to see it in text. All of the growth is evident in game, unless you're defining growth as "she changes to suit what my Inquisitor wanted her to be", in which case, you'll be missing the growth.

[Hurbster]

She is right to chastise you for believing she puts her friends in danger. She doesn't. This is, of course, all neatly explained in dialog with her if you pursue it, it seems like you didn't, prior to blaming her for the consequences of her "friend's" actions. In that very mission you decide to chastise her about? There's an interesting piece of dialog that bears this claim out. The servant that gets the arrows in his chest? He had no idea Sera was the Jenny that responded to the tip, and she didn't know he was the one who tipped her, until he said something about it.



You can see this starting at 15 seconds in...

Er, actually she is not. I chastise HER. She blatantly does not care and flies off the handle when I question her about it. Sugar coat it how you like but that was completely over the top. I have already done a playthrough where I supported her actions (ie agree with her about everything and don't question her actions - ever). It's only when you start to question her methods and her ethics you find out what she is truly like. It shocked the hell out of me I can tell you.

[LobselVith8]

She is, however, like all City Elves, not a part of that culture. The term Flat Ear was created by the Dalish, specifically for the City Elves.

Actually, we don't know who created it, as its a term used by some Dalish and city elves; some city elves look down on the elves who try to live the Alienage as 'flat ears', viewing them as tossing aside everything that makes them elven.

As hahren Sarethia of Highever wrote, "Here, we're among family. We look out for each other. Here, we do what we can to remember the old ways. The flat-ears who have gone out there, they're stuck. They'll never be human, and they've gone and thrown away being elven, too. So where does that leave them? Nowhere."

[pinkjellybeans]

Man, that's a lot of pages to discuss why people hate Sera. 

 

I have to say, before the game was released, seeing the pictures and videos of the companions I thought Sera was going to be my favorite. Then I met her for the first time and it was a wtf moment because she was not what I thought she was, I couldn't understand a thing that came out of her mouth. And then some things she said started to annoy me so in my first playthrough I didn't pay much attention to her and barely had her in my party. But on my second playthrough I wanted to give everyone a chance (even Vivienne) so I started to bring her along more often and that's when I started to love her. She has the best banter and she always has something to say when you're out exploring different areas of a world. And that doesn't happen often with the other companions. Also the comments she often throws like "the veil is fat here", "the veil, she is salty here", etc. always gives me a good laugh. So yeah, I'd say she's definitely not easy to love and she has many flaws but if you allow it, she'll grow on you and you'll get used to her weirdness... eventually.

[Eledran]

People say she's cliché.

 

But to be honest, I can't think of any character like her in video gaming.

 

She's close-minded, that much is true. But I think that's part of her charm for me.

[Vagrant91684]

I really can't fathom how everybody hates this character so much.  The voice work is vibrant and unique.  In real life you have to put up with annoying people all the time.  I am not saying DA is real life, or that it should be, but you should have at least one disagreeable party member with you to keep it interesting.

[joejoe099]

Not sure if it's been posted here, but anyways....

 

 

but back to my own opinion of her. She wants everything the way it was. She supports killing anyone who has acted like an ass at any time, and keeping people under your control so your message/power is the only one out there. She acts like a child constantly and describes things strangely, which isn't bad in itself since Cole is my favorite character in DAI and he mostly speaks in short, description filled stories that leave me guessing 'who's mind is he reading?' or 'what event is he talking about?'.\

 

In the end, she's simply Vivienne, only taking out the culture and snobbery. Both power hungry people who want only their message/view to be the only one in the world, and simply don't care who they have to kill to get it that way.

 

oh, nearly forgot to add that Vivienne is simply trying to keep/increase her power, Sera wants to expand.

Modifié par joejoe099, 24 décembre 2014 - 09:57 .

[WildOrchid]

Lmao

[Seraphim24]

She is the least submissive/most independent out of all the Inquisition characters, I think it's as simple as that.

[Zwingtanz]

She is the least submissive/most independent out of all the Inquisition characters, I think it's as simple as that.

Vivienne falls into that category too and she gets a lot of hate, i think you're on to something

[LobselVith8]

She is the least submissive/most independent out of all the Inquisition characters, I think it's as simple as that.

I think you haven't bothered to actually read this thread; otherwise, you'd know how erroneous that statement is. People pointing out Sera's narrow-minded views on elves, or her abhorrent treatment of Lavellan during the ultimatum scene (where she forces the main character to either give up her religious beliefs or lose her), would be the primary issues.

It's also not necessarily dislike or even hate of the character, but rather pointing out that these are character flaws with Sera. I don't hate Sera, but I do think Sera is a deeply flawed person.

[Seraphim24]

I think you haven't bothered to actually read this thread; otherwise, you'd know how erroneous that statement is. People pointing out Sera's narrow-minded views on elves, or her abhorrent treatment of Lavellan during the ultimatum scene (where she forces the main character to either give up her religious beliefs or lose her), would be the primary issues.

It's also not necessarily dislike or even hate of the character, but rather pointing out that these are character flaws with Sera. I don't hate Sera, but I do think Sera is a deeply flawed person.

 

I have read a fair amount, it strikes me as all the same thing. People are fraustrated she isn't as easliy controllable as the other characters, that they can't control her viewpoints, or have everything they want in her character and have her do as they like. She says no, she forces the issue, she is, as I said, not nearly as submissive as the other characters.

 

Also "pointing out these character flaws" and disliking her character I would say is pretty much the same thing. I don't believe independence is a flaw inherently. (as you suggest) Neither is submissiveness, for that matter, but it's what makes Sera unique relative to the other characters and thus the unique dislike of her seems to be attributable directly to that characteristic.

[LobselVith8]

I have read a fair amount, it strikes me as all the same thing. People are fraustrated she isn't as easliy controllable as the other characters, that they can't control her viewpoints, or have everything they want in her character and have her do as they like. She says no, she forces the issue, she is, as I said, not nearly as submissive as the other characters.

Sera's denigration of the elves, her disdain for Briala (who is trying to empower the elves) while supporting Gaspard (who uses racist language in his confrontation with Briala), and her tossing aside Lavellan unless she gives up her religion, are some of the primary issues that were brought up.

You really don't seem to have read much, if any, of this thread.

Also "pointing out these character flaws" and disliking her character I would say is pretty much the same thing. I don't believe independence is a flaw inherently. (as you suggest) Neither is submissiveness, for that matter, but it's what makes Sera unique relative to the other characters and thus the unique dislike of her seems to be attributable directly to that characteristic.

Trying to twist bigotry and intolerance into independence is pretty ridiculous.

[robertthebard]

Sera's denigration of the elves, her disdain for Briala (who is trying to empower the elves) while supporting Gaspard (who uses racist language in his confrontation with Briala), and her tossing aside Lavellan unless she gives up her religion, are some of the primary issues that were brought up.

Yes, disagreeing with socio-political and religious views is denigrating elves. Video evidence has been provided for this, and disregarded, because it doesn't fit into your neat little box. Her disdain for someone that uses other people to further her political ends, which may indeed affect the elves, such as when she was sleeping with Celene while her alienage was purged? Surely that shouldn't affect her views in any way shape or form, right? After all, it was just elves... She straight out tells you that all three are liars, and she's not wrong... Then, of course, is your lifeline: People aren't allowed to break up with people over religion. You know, it's a really simple deal. You have a choice, you can stick to your guns, which is, in essence, throwing your new found religious beliefs in her face*, or you can lie to her, and keep your new found religious beliefs to yourself.

You really don't seem to have read much, if any, of this thread.

Irony?

Trying to twist bigotry and intolerance into independence is pretty ridiculous.

Trying to say that she has to bow down to your beliefs is pretty ridiculous as well. That's what this comes down to, however.

*Footnote: I say "new found religious beliefs" because, until the Temple of Mythal, this wasn't an issue. She does, however, give you advance warning that this could happen: She says it could work, if you're not too elfy. Since this is a known issue for her since you pick her up in her recruitment quest, feigning surprise when she lives up to her own beliefs, and trying to play the victim card, when you knew this is a deep seated issue with her is your fault, not hers. You thought you could change her into something she's not. You can't, and presto, she's a bigot for sticking to her beliefs.

[vometia]

I've seen various people say she's closed-minded, which I find slightly puzzling: she's certainly opinionated and her own thing, and not the sort who'd appreciate being told what she "should" be, but I don't think any of that makes her closed-minded. I'm wondering if it's become a bit of a euphemism for "doesn't agree with me".

[Sharn01]

I've seen various people say she's closed-minded, which I find slightly puzzling: she's certainly opinionated and her own thing, and not the sort who'd appreciate being told what she "should" be, but I don't think any of that makes her closed-minded. I'm wondering if it's become a bit of a euphemism for "doesn't agree with me".

 

When she gets information that makes the typical elven beliefs look foolish it must be the absolute truth, when she gets information from the exact same place that would make a logical person at least slightly question their beliefs it must all be lies from demons.  Thats pretty much the definition of close minded. I have no problem with people liking or even adoring Sera, but people do not need to deny any criticism no matter how factual it is just because they like her, all the characters in the game have flaws.

[vometia]

When she gets information that makes the typical elven beliefs look foolish it must be the absolute truth, when she gets information from the exact same place that would make a logical person at least slightly question their beliefs it must all be lies from demons.  Thats pretty much the definition of close minded. I have no problem with people liking or even adoring Sera, but people do not need to deny any criticism no matter how factual it is just because they like her, all the characters in the game have flaws.

It's the definition of having her own opinions; whilst she's clearly not perfect, I'm not sure how that particular attitude differs from, say, Solas for example. Or Cassandra or Vivienne or... etc. Some of them I find more annoying than others, but I think that comes down to whether or not I like them as characters rather than any league-table of closed-mindedness.

[Seraphim24]

Sera's denigration of the elves, her disdain for Briala (who is trying to empower the elves) while supporting Gaspard (who uses racist language in his confrontation with Briala), and her tossing aside Lavellan unless she gives up her religion, are some of the primary issues that were brought up.

You really don't seem to have read much, if any, of this thread.


Trying to twist bigotry and intolerance into independence is pretty ridiculous.

 

Someone else got to this before me

 

Yes, disagreeing with socio-political and religious views is denigrating elves. Video evidence has been provided for this, and disregarded, because it doesn't fit into your neat little box. Her disdain for someone that uses other people to further her political ends, which may indeed affect the elves, such as when she was sleeping with Celene while her alienage was purged? Surely that shouldn't affect her views in any way shape or form, right? After all, it was just elves... She straight out tells you that all three are liars, and she's not wrong... Then, of course, is your lifeline: People aren't allowed to break up with people over religion. You know, it's a really simple deal. You have a choice, you can stick to your guns, which is, in essence, throwing your new found religious beliefs in her face*, or you can lie to her, and keep your new found religious beliefs to yourself.

 

The only bigotry and intolerance I see here (again, in this thread which I have read several portions of) is for Sera's viewpoint and behavior, as people turn their own distaste and intolerance of her into her bigotry and intolerance of them.

 

I feel like this is pretty transparent, to be honest.

 

Someone else earlier compared it to Miley Cyrus it's the exact same thing. She seems to operate as a projection bot for people's own intolerances or prejudices as some sort of byproduct of her own powerful independent streak.

[frylock23]

My big problem with Sera is that she refuses to see that when her people get killed, she has some responsibility for their deaths, too. She seems to treat what she's doing like a game, and her associates are all playing it with her, and if people die, it's all the nobles' faults for not seeing the big joke and hating little people or something. But what she doesn't seem to comprehend is that while she didn't directly kill those people, her scheming put them in the way of danger where they were inviting death, so she bears some responsibility for it. Until she understands that much, she is as much a liability to the Red Jennies as she ever was an asset.

 

And every time you try to guide her down that path, she chews your head off for it. It makes me afraid to follow up on any of her operations because frankly, when will it become my fault that her people die so that she can continue to avoid taking some responsibility?

 

Put another way, Sera is another iteration of the stereotypical general who thinks that his troops are no more or less than those little plastic counters on his war table.

[Sully13]

Because she has got no underware on.

 

 

[LobselVith8]

Yes, disagreeing with socio-political and religious views is denigrating elves. Video evidence has been provided for this, and disregarded, because it doesn't fit into your neat little box. Her disdain for someone that uses other people to further her political ends, which may indeed affect the elves, such as when she was sleeping with Celene while her alienage was purged? Surely that shouldn't affect her views in any way shape or form, right? After all, it was just elves... She straight out tells you that all three are liars, and she's not wrong... 

 

Aside from ignoring how Briala looks down on the race of the elven Inquisitor once she sees that the main character is an elf in their first scene together, you're also acting as though Briala didn't separate from Celene - both romantically and politically - because she believed Celene wouldn't genuinely help the elves.

 

Then, of course, is your lifeline: People aren't allowed to break up with people over religion. You know, it's a really simple deal. You have a choice, you can stick to your guns, which is, in essence, throwing your new found religious beliefs in her face*, or you can lie to her, and keep your new found religious beliefs to yourself.

 

I'm pointing out Sera tries to force Lavellan to give up her religion in an ultimatum, which is the issue with their relationship, and you consistently ignore that to try and paint it as though it was a different conversation entirely.

 

Trying to say that she has to bow down to your beliefs is pretty ridiculous as well. That's what this comes down to, however.

 

Pretending as though this is the issue with anyone who dislikes Sera doesn't give any weight to your posts. As for me, Cullen doesn't share my Lavellan's beliefs, and I like him perfectly fine.

 

*Footnote: I say "new found religious beliefs" because, until the Temple of Mythal, this wasn't an issue. She does, however, give you advance warning that this could happen: She says it could work, if you're not too elfy. Since this is a known issue for her since you pick her up in her recruitment quest, feigning surprise when she lives up to her own beliefs, and trying to play the victim card, when you knew this is a deep seated issue with her is your fault, not hers. You thought you could change her into something she's not.

You can't, and presto, she's a bigot for sticking to her beliefs.

 

You mean she breaks up with Lavellan unless she gives up her religious beliefs, which is the actual issue you consistently ignore while pretending that people want to change Sera's religious beliefs.