2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Radgen1]

Now wait a minute, Sera does NOT instigate a rebellion.  She is about as anti-revolutionary as they get.  Red Jenny does not work like that.  It is a bottom up organization(and barely an organization at that) Sera is an agent, not the leader(there are no leaders).  In the event where people say Sera got people killed either didn't read the mission notes or are just being willfully blind.  The request for help came FROM the people in the area, Sera instigated nothing.  All she did was take action(non-violent action I might add) to help those who had already made the request. 

 

They were already being hurt and killed by the local nobles having a pissing contest.  This is confirmed by Cullen when he marches his forces through.  ONE of the local nobles gets his panties in a bunch cause his agenda got derailed.  He figured out partially what happened and used one of the people who had originally asked for help as bait. 

 

Sera is not responsible for that noble being an ass.  She did not order anyone to but their lives at risk, they had already done so when they made the original request BEFORE Sera even decided to help.  What was Sear suppose to do?  Keep letting the peasents get killed and displaced that is suppose to be the better option?  The only unsolicited action Sera takes with Red Jenny are information requests.  She never asks Red jenny to take any outright action.  And if you listen to her and talk to her about Red Jenny you would know that everyone involved are suppose to know the risks, after all no one MAKES them do anything, it is completely and utterly voluntary, no one can order anyone to do.

 

And Again, the Brialla of the Masked Empire is NOT the Brialla we meet at the Winter Palace.  She may have started out as a champion of her people, but by the time we meet her in the game, she has started down the road so many other idealistic revolutionaries have gone.  She is starting to be more conceared with her personal position than her cause.  She DOES get a lot of elves killed.  Sera is not one for what might happen in the future.  What she sees is Brialla getting servants killed to keep her position.  The reason why is irrelevant.

[vometia]

Briala does far more of the heavy-work than her "agents", but either way Sera is only in it for herself, while paying lip service to little people rights. She doesnt make any effort to help anybodies life get better, aside from her own, and she is perfectly fine lazying about in skyhold doing nothing. Her main reason for this red jenny nonsense is because she is too weak and immature to do something and earn her living productively. Its obvious shed never be able to hold any kind of responsibility, so it makes the robbing and the pettiness seem justified when you tie it into a little phony "robin hood" bow.

Huh? What does she personally gain from joining the Inquisition? It's not as if she's doing a Viv and only joining for the prestige: her life would surely continue to be easier and safer being an anonymous Jenny. And in what way does she do less than any of the others who aren't on a current mission?

[Radgen1]

If Sera is all about herself, why join the Inquisition?  Why put herself at that much risk, fighting things that she in no uncertain terms, are deathly afraid of?  And she does help the little people a lot.  Even that mission you keep pointing at.  The problem that started it, nobles playing petty power games stopped and the peasents stopped getting killed and displaced.  How did that not help?  If nothing she did helped, why do the little people keep making requests of Red Jenny?  Why does she bother?  She says so herself, while there is usually a reward for their operations, it isn't exactly raining gold amoung the little people, the rewards aren't huge and Sera has to eat too.  With her skills, she could make a much better living if she chose to legal or not.  If she is as selfish as you say why does she stick to the barely paying jobs that Red Jenny gives?

 

:edit to fix a stupid typo

[Veovim]

How many choices for elven rights are even in this game? The most I can remember is Briala, but Briala is a snake like the rest of them. She seems to have no problem with you helping random elves throughout the game.

Depending on how you take the scene, being named inquisitor could count.  As part of that scene, an elven inquisitor can say that an elf will stand for the Inquisition, and the Inquisition will stand for all of Thedas.  I read the line as "I'm going to be a shining example of my people to show you that elves are worthwhile, and that elves and humans can accomplish great things working together."  Sera, of course, disapproves.  Whether she thinks you're saying "RAWR! ELVEN SUPREMACY!" or just thinks that elves shouldn't have any identity of their own is unclear.  Maybe some of both.

 

Inq: "Its not that simple."

Sera: "Yes it is. What, just because someone shouted it really loud makes it complicated?"

Where in the game is this from?  I definitely remember Sera making an argument to this effect at some point, but I don't recall ever actually agreeing with it.  Issues are almost never simple.  It's like arguing that the templars and mages are being bad boys and girls and need to be punished by mom and dad and brought into line.  Yes, there are innocent people being hurt by the fighting and that needs to stop, but what happens then?  There were reasons the fighting started, and unless those reasons are addressed, the fighting will start again, either soon, or even right away.  Also, it's not as though there was anyone appropriate for the role of mom and dad even before the power structures of the world fractured badly.  Divine Justinia might have been the best fit, but she was trying to play mediator instead--probably because she knew playing stern parent wouldn't work.

 

On a completely unrelated note, since there are people in this thread who claim to understand Sera, would one of you mind explaining to me her view on the Grey Wardens?  After the events at Adamant, she has a line about how she has mixed feelings towards them because they showed up in Denerim before the blight did, and she feels that it's backwards that the good thing happened before the bad thing.  She also disapproves of being told that it's good planning for the wardens to be ready to fight the blight before it really gets underway.  What exactly is her issue here?  That she has a really one-dimensional view of how heroes are supposed to work?  Does she dislike people viewing bad things (in this case, blights) as inevitable instead of being more optimistic?  It's not as though the pessimistic viewpoint lacks precedence.  I've watched that scene quite a few times, and I just find her manner of speech to be really disjointed and difficult to follow.

[robertthebard]

Briala does far more of the heavy-work than her "agents", but either way Sera is only in it for herself, while paying lip service to little people rights. She doesnt make any effort to help anybodies life get better, aside from her own, and she is perfectly fine lazying about in skyhold doing nothing. Her main reason for this red jenny nonsense is because she is too weak and immature to do something and earn her living productively. Its obvious shed never be able to hold any kind of responsibility, so it makes the robbing and the pettiness seem justified when you tie it into a phony little "robin hood" bow.

So this was the motivation you assigned yourself when you did the Red Jenny chains in Origins and DA 2?

[robertthebard]

Depending on how you take the scene, being named inquisitor could count.  As part of that scene, an elven inquisitor can say that an elf will stand for the Inquisition, and the Inquisition will stand for all of Thedas.  I read the line as "I'm going to be a shining example of my people to show you that elves are worthwhile, and that elves and humans can accomplish great things working together."  Sera, of course, disapproves.  Whether she thinks you're saying "RAWR! ELVEN SUPREMACY!" or just thinks that elves shouldn't have any identity of their own is unclear.  Maybe some of both.

Unfortunately, you're really over thinking this where Sera's viewpoint is concerned. She's really a lot simpler than that; it really does come off to her as elven supremacy. She sees in Blank and White, it's part of what makes her, her.
 

Where in the game is this from?  I definitely remember Sera making an argument to this effect at some point, but I don't recall ever actually agreeing with it.  Issues are almost never simple.  It's like arguing that the templars and mages are being bad boys and girls and need to be punished by mom and dad and brought into line.  Yes, there are innocent people being hurt by the fighting and that needs to stop, but what happens then?  There were reasons the fighting started, and unless those reasons are addressed, the fighting will start again, either soon, or even right away.  Also, it's not as though there was anyone appropriate for the role of mom and dad even before the power structures of the world fractured badly.  Divine Justinia might have been the best fit, but she was trying to play mediator instead--probably because she knew playing stern parent wouldn't work.

Justinia was trying to do exactly what Sera sees as the best solution; sit everyone down to talk. Because it doesn't matter what you do, if everyone is busy killing each other, you're only going to achieve peace through genocide. So it really is that simple, it's just not that easy.
 

On a completely unrelated note, since there are people in this thread who claim to understand Sera, would one of you mind explaining to me her view on the Grey Wardens?  After the events at Adamant, she has a line about how she has mixed feelings towards them because they showed up in Denerim before the blight did, and she feels that it's backwards that the good thing happened before the bad thing.  She also disapproves of being told that it's good planning for the wardens to be ready to fight the blight before it really gets underway.  What exactly is her issue here?  That she has a really one-dimensional view of how heroes are supposed to work?  Does she dislike people viewing bad things (in this case, blights) as inevitable instead of being more optimistic?  It's not as though the pessimistic viewpoint lacks precedence.  I've watched that scene quite a few times, and I just find her manner of speech to be really disjointed and difficult to follow.

She doesn't live in the "what might happen". She's very much "in the now". While the events in Denerim do weigh on her in that conversation, the events at Adamant aren't cut and dried "preparing for the next Blight", and are very much "in the now" for her. So, from the way I interpreted the conversation, you're essentially telling her "It's fine that the Wardens did what they did, because "Blight".

[Veovim]

Justinia was trying to do exactly what Sera sees as the best solution; sit everyone down to talk. Because it doesn't matter what you do, if everyone is busy killing each other, you're only going to achieve peace through genocide. So it really is that simple, it's just not that easy.

No offense, but that seems like a rather generous definition of "simple" to me.  Like I said in my last post, there were two roles Divine Justinia could have played, the stern parent or the mediator.  Playing the stern parent involves treating both mages and templars like spoiled children who need to do as they're told.  Playing the mediator, on the other hand, involves treating them like adults who can be reasoned with.  Even though on a fundamental level both options involve getting together and talking, in their implementation they're really nothing alike, and I don't get the impression that Sera recognizes that.

 

 

She doesn't live in the "what might happen". She's very much "in the now". While the events in Denerim do weigh on her in that conversation, the events at Adamant aren't cut and dried "preparing for the next Blight", and are very much "in the now" for her. So, from the way I interpreted the conversation, you're essentially telling her "It's fine that the Wardens did what they did, because "Blight".

Ok, I guess I can sort of see that in a radical jumping to conclusions kind of way where I'm talking about something different than Sera is.  Again, though, it strikes me as a massive over-simplification, as though it's not possible for people to be heroes at one time and total screw-ups at another.

[Maniccc]

If Sera is all about herself, why join the Inquisition?  Why put herself at that much risk, fighting things that she in no uncertain terms, are deathly afraid of?  And she does help the little people a lot.  Even that mission you keep pointing at.  The problem that started it, nobles playing petty power games stopped and the peasents stopped getting killed and displaced.  How did that not help?  If nothing she did helped, why do the little people keep making requests of Red Jenny?  Why does she bother?  She says so herself, while there is usually a reward for their operations, it isn't exactly raining gold amoung the little people, the rewards aren't huge and Sera has to eat too.  With her skills, she could make a much better living if she chose to legal or not.  If she is as selfish as you say why does she stick to the barely paying jobs that Red Jenny gives?

 

:edit to fix a stupid typo

Did you never talk to Sera in the game?  Multiple times she tells you why.  She wants to put things back to normal so she can go back to thieving in (relative) peace and get some money....  Sera is a peasant, basically, not some criminal mastermind.  She thinks small, so she makes small money jobs.  Honestly, I thought it was all pretty obvious.  I agree with her as far as her philosophical position regarding the nobility is concerned, but Sera is rather petty.  She points out multiple times that she does not think in grand terms, but simple and small terms; the here and now of life is what occupies her mind.

[Sully13]

And thats what i like about her she is the peasant in the company of the Nobbs. she is the Baldrick of the group.  

[robertthebard]

No offense, but that seems like a rather generous definition of "simple" to me.  Like I said in my last post, there were two roles Divine Justinia could have played, the stern parent or the mediator.  Playing the stern parent involves treating both mages and templars like spoiled children who need to do as they're told.  Playing the mediator, on the other hand, involves treating them like adults who can be reasoned with.  Even though on a fundamental level both options involve getting together and talking, in their implementation they're really nothing alike, and I don't get the impression that Sera recognizes that.

So what is your solution then? I mean, at the time of the dialog with Sera, right after her recruitment in Haven, the mages and Templars are definitely working towards the genocide solution. Any attempt at peace has to start with everyone putting down their swords and talking. That concept is simple. Getting them to actually do it isn't easy. The concept is simple, pulling it off isn't, yet Justinia managed to do it, not once, but twice. We will never know what kind of results she'd have achieved via the Conclave, since they all got blown up, but that's what was going on, while, in the meantime, she was preparing to start the Inquisition, hence the book that Cassandra slams down in the formation cutscene while confronting Roderick about it. So it's evident that she was hoping to reach a compromise, but was preparing in case one couldn't be achieved. One of the options in the dialog with Sera is to tell her that it didn't work, but really, that's sort of not true. We don't know if it would have or not, since they got blown up. The interesting point actually comes out in banter between Cass and Dorian, I think, when discussing it: That either they might have achieved a compromise, or that both sides hoped the other would stand down. We'll never know. So while achieving the end goal wouldn't be simple, the idea on how was, get both sides to sit down and talk.
 

Ok, I guess I can sort of see that in a radical jumping to conclusions kind of way where I'm talking about something different than Sera is.  Again, though, it strikes me as a massive over-simplification, as though it's not possible for people to be heroes at one time and total screw-ups at another.

No jumping of any kind required; you're discussing the Wardens, after the events of Adamant Fortress, unless what you saw there was a perfectly acceptable solution to a Blight we're not having? You see, and I see this brought up a lot in threads about exiling the Wardens or not, contrary to romantic opinion, we're not having a Blight. While I have to admit to some surprise on that front given the nature of Cory, his primary army isn't Darkspawn. The mage Wardens were mind controlled, after they took over their own pet demon, but the rest of the Wardens, including the Warden Commander, weren't. She was manipulated into believing that sacrificing Wardens to raise an army of demons was a Good Idea^TM. Sera, on the other hand, thinks it's a Bad Idea^TM. That's why she'll have the reactions she does depending on whether you send them packing or not. So unless you think the sacrifices were warranted, I don't see how it's a stretch, or requires any conclusion jumping to come back to the Wardens might be bad, in the context of events that have just transpired.

You see, this ties into her Denerim reference too: Then, the Warden showing up was a good thing, happening before a bad thing. At Adamant, the Wardens were the bad thing showing up before another bad thing, especially if she's with you on the mission, and winds up in the Fade with you.

[ThirstyKIRST]

Honestly Sera has the best kit of any character. I almost never go anywhere without her now because she is so useful. And she is perfect with dragons because she can do elemental damage and rarely loses any health. I don't see how people are so annoyed by her personality, but even if she is bad to listen to she's amazing to fight with. By far most op companion if you play her right. You really don't want her out of your group if you can help it.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

How would you feel if all a person you were supposed to try to get along with did was call everyone else, whether they knew them or not, stupid retards that beat people up for no reason? To me that's what Sera does - intolerable. "Oh hey, I don't know you from Maferath but, you're stupid and you beat people, I just know you do 'cos, well you're stupid."

 

Sera is the stupid one for refusing to see that someone is not stupid for disagreeing with her, or for not thinking as simplistically as she does.

[Kimarous]

For all the alleged "Sera hatred" out there, I have yet to find a single video where someone went with the "You don't fit with the Inquisition" option. Yeah, I've seen people reject her outright, and I've seen the "Start running, traitor!" response to her disapproval, but none where people outright kick her out at random.

[TweetyTheBird]

She does not accept any different point of view than her own and she is too aggressive, but somewhere towards the end of my first playthrough she started to sound more like a "human" and I started to like her.

[Seraphim24]

It doesn't really seem that difficult to harmonize these opinions, maybe she's kind of reckless but strong of heart?

 

She's like an ENFP (in MBTI or something), she understands the differences and distinctions among people, she can make assumptions successfully and so causes the resentment from more purely thinking and judging types who lack such a capacity. Instead of acknowleding this they resort to "racist," "stupidity," "infantile," and seek to leverage their command over official labels and stratagems (the power they do possess) to dispense with her infuriatingly accurate intuition (the power they do not possess). The moral grandstanding seems somewhat difficult to reconcile considering no ones hands are completely unclean in this bloodbath religious moral crusade of a DA universe.

 

So people don't like that she seems to be over-reaching, but only for people that don't really understand what she's doing there, however there are also some people who are probably just annoyed at the sort of chaotic ways of getting to certain goals which might of been achieved more efficiently with different planning, etc.

[Veovim]

So what is your solution then? I mean, at the time of the dialog with Sera, right after her recruitment in Haven, the mages and Templars are definitely working towards the genocide solution. Any attempt at peace has to start with everyone putting down their swords and talking. That concept is simple. Getting them to actually do it isn't easy.

...

So while achieving the end goal wouldn't be simple, the idea on how was, get both sides to sit down and talk.

That last line looks to me like you're saying that the first step in the peace process is simple, but the peace process overall isn't.  Is that correct?  That actually sounds a lot like what I was trying to say--that having one simple step in a multi-step process does not make the whole process simple, and that Sera doesn't seem to be thinking beyond that first step.  She gives me the impression that she thinks that negotiations (which would be complicated) aren't actually necessary, and that the mages and templars can just be bullied back into line (which would be simple, but is very unlikely to work).

 

 

No jumping of any kind required; you're discussing the Wardens, after the events of Adamant Fortress, unless what you saw there was a perfectly acceptable solution to a Blight we're not having? You see, and I see this brought up a lot in threads about exiling the Wardens or not, contrary to romantic opinion, we're not having a Blight. While I have to admit to some surprise on that front given the nature of Cory, his primary army isn't Darkspawn. The mage Wardens were mind controlled, after they took over their own pet demon, but the rest of the Wardens, including the Warden Commander, weren't. She was manipulated into believing that sacrificing Wardens to raise an army of demons was a Good Idea^TM. Sera, on the other hand, thinks it's a Bad Idea^TM. That's why she'll have the reactions she does depending on whether you send them packing or not. So unless you think the sacrifices were warranted, I don't see how it's a stretch, or requires any conclusion jumping to come back to the Wardens might be bad, in the context of events that have just transpired.

You see, this ties into her Denerim reference too: Then, the Warden showing up was a good thing, happening before a bad thing. At Adamant, the Wardens were the bad thing showing up before another bad thing, especially if she's with you on the mission, and winds up in the Fade with you.

 

I went and re-watched that scene again, and I'll admit that the comment was a little more ambiguous than I had remembered.  Basically, what I had meant by it was that the Wardens were a good thing when they were doing their job properly, watching for a blight so that they could warn everyone to prepare.  Obviously when Cory managed to panic them and got one of his minions to propose the demon army plan, the Wardens stopped doing their job properly, but I had thought that went without saying.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that this is what Sera is upset about, though.  Based on the other options, she might be thinking that you're insensitive to apply adult logic to how she felt as a child (that the Wardens weren't conforming to how legends should be), but, like I said in my original post, I find her manner of speech to be really disjointed and difficult to follow, so I'm really not sure about that.

[Veovim]

It doesn't really seem that difficult to harmonize these opinions, maybe she's kind of reckless but strong of heart?

 

She's like an ENFP (in MBTI or something), she understands the differences and distinctions among people, she can make assumptions successfully and so causes the resentment from more purely thinking and judging types who lack such a capacity. Instead of acknowleding this they resort to "racist," "stupidity," "infantile," and seek to leverage their command over official labels and stratagems (the power they do possess) to dispense with her infuriatingly accurate intuition (the power they do not possess). The moral grandstanding seems somewhat difficult to reconcile considering no ones hands are completely unclean in this bloodbath religious moral crusade of a DA universe.

 

So people don't like that she seems to be over-reaching, but only for people that don't really understand what she's doing there, however there are also some people who are probably just annoyed at the sort of chaotic ways of getting to certain goals which might of been achieved more efficiently with different planning, etc.

This is an interesting approach, but I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "making assumptions successfully."  Would you mind providing examples to elaborate?

[robertthebard]

That last line looks to me like you're saying that the first step in the peace process is simple, but the peace process overall isn't.  Is that correct?  That actually sounds a lot like what I was trying to say--that having one simple step in a multi-step process does not make the whole process simple, and that Sera doesn't seem to be thinking beyond that first step.  She gives me the impression that she thinks that negotiations (which would be complicated) aren't actually necessary, and that the mages and templars can just be bullied back into line (which would be simple, but is very unlikely to work).

The concept is simple, get them to sit down and talk. After that, the work begins. Justinia managed to get them to sit down twice, unfortunately, we'll never know if she was going to pull anything out of her hat. So yeah, I think we're basically on the same page. The issue with this and Sera is, again, overthinking it. She's not big on thinking too much.
 

I went and re-watched that scene again, and I'll admit that the comment was a little more ambiguous than I had remembered.  Basically, what I had meant by it was that the Wardens were a good thing when they were doing their job properly, watching for a blight so that they could warn everyone to prepare.  Obviously when Cory managed to panic them and got one of his minions to propose the demon army plan, the Wardens stopped doing their job properly, but I had thought that went without saying.
 
I'm not entirely convinced that this is what Sera is upset about, though.  Based on the other options, she might be thinking that you're insensitive to apply adult logic to how she felt as a child (that the Wardens weren't conforming to how legends should be), but, like I said in my original post, I find her manner of speech to be really disjointed and difficult to follow, so I'm really not sure about that.

What happens at Adamant flies into her face about what she remembers from Denerim, where there actually was a Blight, but the Warden wasn't summoning demons to deal with it.

[Seraphim24]

This is an interesting approach, but I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "making assumptions successfully."  Would you mind providing examples to elaborate?

 

Well the instincts about Solas kind of being off or having ulterior motives and him kind of being an uber-mensch-ish figure in the end. It's not like, oh he's evil, but at least the whole, just because you speak a fancy language and have read a lot of books doesn't make you an authority on human affairs or are necessarily without your own kind of literally demons.

 

I'd also say sometimes it's not what people would realize, like when people were talking about her mocking the tattoos that's as reassuring as you can be in that situation. There is really not much else to do in that situation but laugh. She kind of seems to consistently go for the soft spot rather than the hard spot which is a better way to navigate human situations.

 

I mean that's a down situation, but you have to assume something, whether it's to say nothing, say something, or any variety of things in between. Not making an assumption about what someone wants to hear or not is no good if the person actually wanted that person to make the assumption. When you call a spade a spade right then and there you drown it's momentum on the spot.

 

If you were to rate interactions based on a more objective random sampling of people in different situations (and not a particularly biased group), I'd bet the typical person would be more favorable to Sera than to someone like.. even Cassandra, Blackwall, Vivienne definitely, probably all the others. She seems to ground her analysis of people more directly on visible actions than falling prey to titles or abstractions.

 

She seems to combine this with a kind of high impact rocket to the face method of getting the points across which seems to give people whiplash and throw them off at the same time.

[LobselVith8]

And Again, the Brialla of the Masked Empire is NOT the Brialla we meet at the Winter Palace.  She may have started out as a champion of her people, but by the time we meet her in the game, she has started down the road so many other idealistic revolutionaries have gone.  She is starting to be more conceared with her personal position than her cause.  She DOES get a lot of elves killed.  Sera is not one for what might happen in the future.  What she sees is Brialla getting servants killed to keep her position.  The reason why is irrelevant.

 

It's a revolution to empower the elves; it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that people would die. There's also no evidence that Briala was plotting with the Venatori like you're suggesting; in fact, she's investigating what happened when she discovers that her people died, even putting herself in harm's way.

 

I don't see how she's the villain here, particularly when her goal is to empower the elves after centuries of enduring oppression, servitude, and mass murder. Briala and the other elves put their lives on the line to try to help their people. When she gains power, Briala gives the elves in Orlais freedoms that they have never known before, to the point where some racist nobles strongly oppose her reforms and want her ousted because of the changes that benefit the Orlesian elves.

[Giggles_Manically]

Honestly its because she has some shockingly bad moments in the game, with her comments and hypocrisy being quite glaring.

 

The whole -leave your cultural identity to keep dating me!- -Hahah you got dumped nyahaha- HAH elves got it wrong hahah-

I dont hate Sera, she just rates ahead of Jacob Taylor on a scale of Bioware companions for me.

[Danadenassis]

Many good points still, even this late in the thread. Both positive and negative. It is nice to read

 

About "Elfiness" do I think the Sera character is tired of being associated with "elfiness" just because she got elf-ears. I am sure everyone can relate to that feeling in one topic or another, be it gender, colour, education, work, nationality and whatnot. So especially sensitive to "elfiness" arguments, like "A real Scot wouldn't do that", or as "As a Scot will I...". Btw, I am not Scottish or got anything against Scots, just using it as a well known example. Perhaps she could percieve it something like: "As a fan of Mozart's music - I consider that Carthage must be destroyed".

Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I think she wants the world to see her for what she does and feel rather than some cultural product based upon the associations some people got to some limited biological variations.

 

I think I agree with those that mention that she has "unresolved problems". I think most do have such a problem or two and that isn't so strange given that nobody knows everything Like some has mentioned is it like this in politics very often, people that doesn't understand what politicians talk about, that it all seems so confusing and lofty that it feels impossible to relate to what it means. With such angle on politics will it easily look like, and perhaps be, politics being about making excuses for doing bad things. Like if the inquisitor excusing the noble that kills the person that tries to have a meeting with Sera. Or like someone excusing if a police-officer kills and unarmed youth with dozens of shots.

 

(I've had similar discussions many times tbh, the tragic-comic thing is that their excuses turns into outrage if they imagine it being their spouse, friends or children.)

 

About ditching the inquisitor: I personally would not have done it that way and with those words, but we are unique beings and we got our own quirks. Still, imagine all the people you are not friends with anymore, imagine all the less than critical flaws/arguments that made you fall apart. For instance do I find it hard to be in a love relationship with someone of certain political "values" (I use "values", because honestly do I find it being lack of values sometimes). If those "values" also is reflecting on attitudes in the domestic sphere, then is it not just about what a person thinks, but how a person percieve and act towards you.

 

It isn't so strange, even in our own world and time to see religion being such a question about value. Wars  has been started for that and less (to simplify our conflicts a bit I'm sure).

 

The thing is, as far as I understand, that we don't get to know exactly why Sera ended up having the ideas that she does regarding these religious things, but we know she consider the elven deities to be demons/monsters and in her view is that inexcusable to support. Right?

 

Combine that with her somewhat unflexible rhetoric that I think is born out of unresolved fear of intellectual perspectives, is it very unrealistic to have such outbursts over religion? Imagine our own world inquisition, the crusades, witch-burning, or even our  current middle east, Ukraine, drug-chartels controlling big percentages of whole countries and say that it is beyond acceptable to not be your friend or lover.

 

Perhaps Sera leaving a friendship is just her taking responsibility for how she feel about certain ideas. She will still support the inquisitor and inquisition, but she doesn't trust the inquisition enough with something as vulnerable as her heart and friendship.

 

I think that such an action, or should it be re-action, can hurt, of course, but we all deserve it to ourselves to take such steps now and then.

[Danadenassis]

I just want to add that I do think that us posting here will likely have a somewhat liberal view on things, a view that many die-hards in conflict zones can't afford to have, or doesn't want to have. Sera is from a very different world. She is not a person that will look for debates "while people are dying out there".

 

We on the other hand got quite a luxury in doing so, both with our attitudes and practicalities to do so.

 

I do also get tired of Sera sometimes, so in my latest game do I not have her in my "action-team".

[Scerene]

Now wait a minute, Sera does NOT instigate a rebellion.  She is about as anti-revolutionary as they get.  Red Jenny does not work like that.  It is a bottom up organization(and barely an organization at that) Sera is an agent, not the leader(there are no leaders).  In the event where people say Sera got people killed either didn't read the mission notes or are just being willfully blind.  The request for help came FROM the people in the area, Sera instigated nothing.  All she did was take action(non-violent action I might add) to help those who had already made the request. 

 

They were already being hurt and killed by the local nobles having a pissing contest.  This is confirmed by Cullen when he marches his forces through.  ONE of the local nobles gets his panties in a bunch cause his agenda got derailed.  He figured out partially what happened and used one of the people who had originally asked for help as bait. 

 

Sera is not responsible for that noble being an ass.  She did not order anyone to but their lives at risk, they had already done so when they made the original request BEFORE Sera even decided to help.  What was Sear suppose to do?  Keep letting the peasents get killed and displaced that is suppose to be the better option?  The only unsolicited action Sera takes with Red Jenny are information requests.  She never asks Red jenny to take any outright action.  And if you listen to her and talk to her about Red Jenny you would know that everyone involved are suppose to know the risks, after all no one MAKES them do anything, it is completely and utterly voluntary, no one can order anyone to do.

 

And Again, the Brialla of the Masked Empire is NOT the Brialla we meet at the Winter Palace.  She may have started out as a champion of her people, but by the time we meet her in the game, she has started down the road so many other idealistic revolutionaries have gone.  She is starting to be more conceared with her personal position than her cause.  She DOES get a lot of elves killed.  Sera is not one for what might happen in the future.  What she sees is Brialla getting servants killed to keep her position.  The reason why is irrelevant.

 If you put Briala in power you will see that she does everything to fight for the elves, and of course she has to put herself in power first.  Everybody cares about taking care of themselves and improving their position, its only natural but that doesnt mean theyve sold out on their principles. You cant improve the lives of others if you dont have the political  power to do so, especially in the brutal world of thedas, as you well know. Youre making it sound as though the events from tsm are far off from what happens in DAI, which isnt the impression that ive gotten. Briala is not the reason for the elven servants being killed, duchess florianne had the venatori infiltrating the castle, and they were likely down there waiting to strike. Where else would she keep them, other than the place where  the "important" people wouldnt care to look?   Elven servants missing is hardly interesting to anyone, aside from Bri who went down there to save her people. No change ever comes without sacrifice btw, she is in constant danger herself. Im still confounded that so many people here keep acting as though change in a brutal world will just magically happen through modern day type "activism". She lives in a different time and very different, far more brutal world. Handing out pamphlets and doing speeches or organising "pride" events is hardly going to make any changes, aside from  even more of them getting killed. She is doing the best she can in a bad situation.

 

For example there was no way that the mages situation would improve without bloodshed, no way. The chantry was holding a very tight leash on both its templars and the mages, which was also based around very thin contractual "agreements" with the seekers. Once the mages voted for change, all hats were off, but nobody cared to do anything while the mages were in the circle. It really was either all or nothing. Fiona isnt a good leader, in fact she is a terrible leader, but no matter the kind of leader the outcome would have been the same. Change needed to happen, and the only way that happens in the world of thedas is through drastic action. 

 

Think of it. Elves have been living under terrible conditions in human societes for ages without any improvements. In our world, marginalised groups gain increased privileges over time, but that -never- happens in their world. The only reason that the lives of the elves have improved in Orlais is -because- of Briala. Elves being allowed to trade in the upper markets, admitted to universities etc etc- She also starts tearing down alienages and fighting to improve the housing of the elves, in spite of angry protests from nobles. She is the first elf to receive a noble title, and she uses that power to fight for the other elves, if you put her in power. She isnt a perfect woman, but she is doing a damn good job, all things considered.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

She's too much like a daughter in law I can't stand. Thinks she's entitled to a good life just for being born, thinks anyone who disagrees with her, is richer, smarter, harder working, who has actually earned the good life is stupid for not giving it all to her her when she did nothing to earn it. Thinks people who disagree or do not cater to her whims are stupid and doing it on purpose to keep her form having things and, is a money grubbing chit.

 

Were she a real modern person, it's d be just like my unwanted DIL. Dad: "I'm getting a new laptop next week." DIL: "I'll make a place on my desk for your old one [giddy laugh]" She assumes she gets the old one w/o even asking if she can have or buy it, or if Dad has other plans for the old computer, or if it even still works. She assumes she is entitled to it just because she's the DIL. Me: "GRRRR@, That Chit can get off it and go buy her own computer. Oh I forgot she thinks we should cow tow to her just because she's ENTITLED because, nobodies who don't work for it are entitled to take whatever they want from those of us who do earn it."

 

I refuse to allow the DIL in my home or, go to her home and, I refuse to give her a penny, or anything else. Same for Sera, she is not going to be a part of my game unless she changes her attitude and wises up.