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[Heimdall]

I believe I mentioned this either very early in this thread or another regarding Sera, but her phobia of "Nothing", and denial of Mythal really brought to mind something my twin brother went through late last year.

 

Suddenly and without warning, he began suffering from a crippling sense of existential dread.  He was terrified of the idea that what he sees wasn't real.  He couldn't handle that sort of existential uncertainty and didn't even understand why it frightened him so badly.  I spent a weekend with him trying to keep him distracted and not dwell on those ideas, but twice he broke down and started crying because of it.  All I could do was try to hug it out until he recovered.  It was very frustrating not knowing how to help.  He's recovered thanks to a therapist and medication that keeps him from getting so worked up, but the experience made me feel very sympathetic towards Sera when I played DAI after.

 

She can't take the idea of Mythal being real because that might mean the Maker isn't real, leaving "Nothing".  And that just scared the hell out of her.  I could understand completely.

[FemShem]

She can't take the idea of Mythal being real because that might mean the Maker isn't real, leaving "Nothing".  And that just scared the hell out of her.  I could understand completely.

Totally 100 percent agree.  Couldn't have said it better...probably why I quoted you!

[Rel Fexive]

Thing is, in the DA universe, the spiritual plane of existence is objectively observable, as is magic.  In our realty, the whole thing is strictly a matter of belief.  Rejecting the spiritual as a fantasy for adults is understandable here.  There, I can only think of it as neurotic denial.

 

The existence of the Fade and of magic has nowt to do with believing in the existence of gods or Makers.

 

Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

 

These things can exist exist independent of each other - the existence of the Fade does not mean any gods MUST exist, and neither does magic.  So denying they actually exist denies nothing.

[Daerog]

Sera didn't reject Mythal. She just rejected what people say when talking about Mythal. She just says its all demons. Which, depending on one's perspective, isn't that far from the truth.

 

The idea that Mythal is a god and such, and responsible for creation like in the dalish myths, is what freaks her out, and it may not be true, it might just be lie and Mythal was just a powerful spirit that possessed people. She can't connect the two creation stories or religions, she sees how they conflict, and so rejects one as demons and upholds the Maker.

 

At least that is how I viewed those interactions with her, its been a while since last I did a full playthrough, so could be forgetting stuff.

[c0bra951]

The existence of the Fade and of magic has nowt to do with believing in the existence of gods or Makers.

 

Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

 

These things can exist exist independent of each other - the existence of the Fade does not mean any gods MUST exist, and neither does magic.  So denying they actually exist denies nothing.

 

Maybe not to you.  But if the Lucifer appeared before me in a puff of red smoke, offering to bargain for my soul, I would become an ascetic monk overnight--guaranteed. 

[Rel Fexive]

Maybe not to you.  But if the Lucifer appeared before me in a puff of red smoke, offering to bargain for my soul, I would become an ascetic monk overnight--guaranteed. 

But that (or something equivalent) has not happened to Sera. Nothing to conclusively prove the existence of other actual gods as being actual Gods rather than spirits or demons. And as I said, the Fade existing, and magic existing, proves nothing by itself as they exist independently of any deity-like entities.

[Daerog]

It kind of just comes down to how one defines "god," right?

 

The Avvar know for a fact that their gods are spirits who take on the persona and grow into the identity of their gods. When one tells the Avvar that their gods are just spirits who take on the character of their gods, the Avvar just say "Duh! We know that." So, the Avvar gods do exist, they are spoken with and everything; however, people like Sera, the Chantry, and others would instead refer to these beings as just powerful spirits or demons. Neither are wrong in what they say, because it is how they define their words, but one can question how they approach and act toward these things as good or bad.

 

We run into Mythal, some say "Oh, wow, the elven gods are real," while others say, "Oh, I guess there were such creatures about, but they are not gods, they are spirits/demons," and neither are exactly wrong, depending on how one wishes to define the words.

 

So, when Sera says it was just a bunch of demons, I just think, "that's one way to look at it, ya."

 

However, for Andrastians such as Sera, I would assume that since they believe the Maker to be the one, true god and he made the Fade, they believe a god must be one who is independent from creation, from the Fade and Thedas, and so the elven pantheon and Avvar gods will never be considered real gods since they are dependent on the Fade (for using magic or existence).

 

Although, Mythal and Solas could have just been fooling everyone and just use Fade magic to do stuff instead of using any innate powers in order to blend in more.

[9TailsFox]

It kind of just comes down to how one defines "god," right?

 

The Avvar know for a fact that their gods are spirits who take on the persona and grow into the identity of their gods. When one tells the Avvar that their gods are just spirits who take on the character of their gods, the Avvar just say "Duh! We know that." So, the Avvar gods do exist, they are spoken with and everything; however, people like Sera, the Chantry, and others would instead refer to these beings as just powerful spirits or demons. Neither are wrong in what they say, because it is how they define their words, but one can question how they approach and act toward these things as good or bad.

 

We run into Mythal, some say "Oh, wow, the elven gods are real," while others say, "Oh, I guess there were such creatures about, but they are not gods, they are spirits/demons," and neither are exactly wrong, depending on how one wishes to define the words.

 

So, when Sera says it was just a bunch of demons, I just think, "that's one way to look at it, ya."

 

However, for Andrastians such as Sera, I would assume that since they believe the Maker to be the one, true god and he made the Fade, they believe a god must be one who is independent from creation, from the Fade and Thedas, and so the elven pantheon and Avvar gods will never be considered real gods since they are dependent on the Fade (for using magic or existence).

 

Although, Mythal and Solas could have just been fooling everyone and just use Fade magic to do stuff instead of using any innate powers in order to blend in more.

This is one of the reasons why Sera is so annoying. My imaginary friend is more powerful then your's, not real imaginary friends.

[Rel Fexive]

This is one of the reasons why Sera is so annoying. My imaginary friend is more powerful then your's, not real imaginary friends.

That's not a trait that's restricted to Sera though is it? It's arguably quite prevalent in Thedas... and in the real world too...

[Daerog]

She isn't calling them imaginary, though, just saying that they may be real, but "god" is not the proper term for them from her definitions and view of the world. (Edit: Wait... maybe she does use the term "imaginary," I totally forget, it's been a while since I played a complete playthrough...)

 

Obviously, they aren't imaginary.

 

Also, if it is true that the Maker is entirely independent from creation and the other gods are dependent on it, and either directly or indirectly created by the Maker, then the Maker is greater and more powerful than them. So, if one is Andrastian, then one does believe that the Maker is greater (or at least more powerful) than all else.

 

 

 

Hmmm, maybe I'm giving Sera too much credit... still, I prefer her over Solas, but would prefer teaming up with Vivienne over her...

[9TailsFox]

She isn't calling them imaginary, though, just saying that they may be real, but "god" is not the proper term for them from her definitions and view of the world. (Edit: Wait... maybe she does use the term "imaginary," I totally forget, it's been a while since I played a complete playthrough...)

 

Obviously, they aren't imaginary.

 

Also, if it is true that the Maker is entirely independent from creation and the other gods are dependent on it, and either directly or indirectly created by the Maker, then the Maker is greater and more powerful than them. So, if one is Andrastian, then one does believe that the Maker is greater (or at least more powerful) than all else.

 

 

 

Hmmm, maybe I'm giving Sera too much credit... still, I prefer her over Solas, but would prefer teaming up with Vivienne over her...

Mike Laidlaw in interwe said they don't revel maker is real and not deny he isn't. Unless something change witch can easy happen. So until then Maker is like real life religions are man made. But from what we see elven "god" are real.

 

So Solas is absolutely different case.

 

Like in Jaws of Hakkon.

 

Guy: Oh I forgot Fen'Harel!
Solas: Most people do.

 

Or

Imagine party banter.

Sera: I don't believe in elven gods this is bs Fen'Harel is not real.

Solas:

[Dethfield]

I'll tell you one thing.. I didnt risk my neck trying to close the breach, take down Corypheus, help tons of people, and save the world in general just to have some arrogant elf call me stupid to my face and outright disobey my orders.

 

If she didnt provide me with Jars of Bees i would tell her to "choke on her breeches" every time.

[MyKingdomCold]

I think I made a mistake and posted in a different topic before, but I think she's a twit.  When you get your specialization as a mage, she says you're scawy.  Doesn't matter if I've helped people, conscripted the mages, and gotten her approval.  I'm still scawy.  

 

Also, I think she's blind because when you do her pranks she says everyone's drinking alone.  But no one is really drinking alone. Blind I tell you.

[The Lone Shadow]

I don't really blame her all that much for not wanting to accept that the Elven Pantheon are gods and real. After all, religious faith can be important to people and thinking that it might all be a lie is a tough pill to swallow. I wouldn't really care about this much if she wasn't such a B to the elf inquisitor about it. She seriously throws a fit because you believe differently then her.

 

Elf Quizz: Okay, you believe in the Maker. That's fine, but I believe in the Elven Gods. You do your thing and I'll do my thing.

 

Sera: That's stupid, you can't believe that because its stupid!

 

Essentially, everybody has to bow down to my beliefs and no one can have opposing views. That is realistic, there are a lot of people out there that are like that so kudos to you DA team. But I hate those people in real life, so its not surprising that I hate Sera for that too. Also, the fact that she harps on the elf quizz so much about their heritage when they are already a fish out of water and have very few people they can remotely connect to is cringe worthy to deal with.

 

The funny thing is, is that if it wasn't for anti-elf, anti-dalish, and the amount nastiness she has towards an elf pc I would have liked her. But since I always play an elf  its impossible me to like her. If she just said she wasn't into elfy things, didn't get into the Dalish stuff, and was just "whatever" when it came to the elf quizz's faith we would have gotten along a bit better, but that intolerant nastiness is a deal breaker for me.

[The Lone Shadow]

 

 

 

 

It might be odd to compare, but I find romancing Sera is sort of like Alistair. As in there is one thing you can disagree on that will end the relationship forever. I know a lot of people can't stand her for the way she portrays herself on the outside, but she's different on the inside. Cole knows it too. There's so much more to her if she's allowed to open up, but sadly that one thing about Mythal is the deal breaker and I will never agree with her on that.

 

Alister will break up with you if he is made king ( and if your not human and you didn't harden him) and if you let the man who is part of the reason his second substitute dad died. The former is because of human politics and the other is because to him its a betrayal. Kinda different then Sera breaking up with you because you have a different faith and she takes it to the point that she tells you she's not your friend anymore. I know a lot of people like harp on Alister for being immature, but I swear he is far more mature then Sera. At least his reasons for the break up are bit more legitimate and he does it more maturely then she.  

 

Edit:

 

Also, Cassandra breaks up with you if she becomes the Chantry Pope and Solas just runs off somewhere, so you can add those two to the list of people who break up with you for "insert reasons" here.

Modifié par The Lone Shadow, 21 juin 2015 - 04:24 .

[The Lone Shadow]

She can't take the idea of Mythal being real because that might mean the Maker isn't real, leaving "Nothing".  And that just scared the hell out of her.  I could understand completely.

 

Really? I've been hearing people say that her fear of the "Nothing" is more about her. That she fears that she is nothing, which is why she wants to be apart of organizations like the Red Jenny's and the Inquisition. That makes much more sense to me then her answer being that she wants to know if its all real, the Maker and what not, since she doesn't really want know anything that would threaten her vision of reality, her little bubble. Though it could be what you say, either theory is plausible and her fear is a bit ambiguous. When I first saw it I thought it meant that she was afraid of the unknown, since she is clearly afraid of things she doesn't understand. Though if the Maker isn't real then there is this big void of the unknown so its pretty much what you said. 

 

Everyone else's tombstone we have clear understanding of but her's. Kinda reminds me of what Blackwall said about her. 

 

Blackwall: Sera doesn't know who she is or what she wants, and doesn't care.  

[SwobyJ]

I believe I mentioned this either very early in this thread or another regarding Sera, but her phobia of "Nothing", and denial of Mythal really brought to mind something my twin brother went through late last year.

 

Suddenly and without warning, he began suffering from a crippling sense of existential dread.  He was terrified of the idea that what he sees wasn't real.  He couldn't handle that sort of existential uncertainty and didn't even understand why it frightened him so badly.  I spent a weekend with him trying to keep him distracted and not dwell on those ideas, but twice he broke down and started crying because of it.  All I could do was try to hug it out until he recovered.  It was very frustrating not knowing how to help.  He's recovered thanks to a therapist and medication that keeps him from getting so worked up, but the experience made me feel very sympathetic towards Sera when I played DAI after.

 

She can't take the idea of Mythal being real because that might mean the Maker isn't real, leaving "Nothing".  And that just scared the hell out of her.  I could understand completely.

 

My boyfriend had something similar happen to him in his teens (several years before meeting me), a combination of a triggered OCD and seeing The Matrix.

 

It definitely has helped in my personal views of Sera.

 

Though I do follow that theory of Nothing also = Void, due to something weird about Sera's nature.

[andy6915]

Really? I've been hearing people say that her fear of the "Nothing" is more about her. That she fears that she is nothing, which is why she wants to be apart of organizations like the Red Jenny's and the Inquisition. That makes much more sense to me then her answer being that she wants to know if its all real, the Maker and what not, since she doesn't really want know anything that would threaten her vision of reality, her little bubble. Though it could be what you say, either theory is plausible and her fear is a bit ambiguous. When I first saw it I thought it meant that she was afraid of the unknown, since she is clearly afraid of things she doesn't understand. Though if the Maker isn't real then there is this big void of the unknown so its pretty much what you said. 

 

Everyone else's tombstone we have clear understanding of but her's. Kinda reminds me of what Blackwall said about her. 

 

Blackwall: Sera doesn't know who she is or what she wants, and doesn't care.  

 

I actually think the "Sera is Andruil" theory is true, and her fear of "nothing" is her being afraid of the void where she lost herself and went insane for a long time before Mythal stole her power and knowledge of how to get back there. She subconsciously fears ending up in the void again, because of what it did to her last time. Even elven gods can't hang around in the void forever before they start to lose it and become mindless killers, and she is like Cole in that she doesn't want to go kill crazy again.

 

http://shispan.tumbl...peculation-more

 

Yeah yeah, I'm one of those posters. The theory makes sense to me.

[SwobyJ]

"doesn't want to go kill crazy again." actually describes/may describe the thread of most/all of the Inner Circle, come to think of it, one way or another. Even fancy pantsy Josephine. Or more figuratively, like Dorian trying to redeem not himself, but his nation (as an extension of self). Even Varric is here because he wants to stop the kill-craziness of specifically red lyrium, considering himself responsible for it to an extent.

 

Basically everyone is actively trying to be a little 'better', whether they fully consciously know their intents or not. Better natures.

[Aren]

Mike Laidlaw in interwe said they don't revel maker is real and not deny he isn't. Unless something change witch can easy happen.  man made. But from what we see elven "god" are real.

 

So Solas is absolutely different case.

 

 

According to the chant of light the Maker abandoned us  to go to work on a new Ip.

[9TailsFox]

According to the chant of light the Maker abandoned us  to go to work on a new Ip.

All hail new Maker Patrick.

[The Lone Shadow]

I'm kinda skeptical of the theory about her being Andruil or the vessel of Andruil, mainly because you can kick her out at anytime. I mean if she is really connected to Andruil then that would make her an important character and if she is an important character then wouldn't you put some plot armor on her? They put plot armor on Vivienne to keep her from getting kicked out because she is a possible candidate to be the next Divine, or is there another reason I can't kick her out after she moves my furniture?

 

Bioware obviously knew that Sera was going to rub people the wrong way, hence why she has a kick me out sign always on her. But they also had to have known that Vivienne would be the same if not worse in some instances, and yet she gets a pass and Sera doesn't. Its just weird to me.