2858 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

I'm kinda skeptical of the theory about her being Andruil or the vessel of Andruil, mainly because you can kick her out at anytime. I mean if she is really connected to Andruil then that would make her an important character and if she is an important character then wouldn't you put some plot armor on her? They put plot armor on Vivienne to keep her from getting kicked out because she is a possible candidate to be the next Divine, or is there another reason I can't kick her out after she moves my furniture?

 

Bioware obviously knew that Sera was going to rub people the wrong way, hence why she has a kick me out sign always on her. But they also had to have known that Vivienne would be the same if not worse in some instances, and yet she gets a pass and Sera doesn't. Its just weird to me.

 

A few responses (not necessarily what I believe, but just ideas):

1)She could have the remains of a wisp of Andruil. Sera is Sera. Sera just could also have a bit in her that she lives in constant struggle and denial of. This wisp could be useful to a story, but not necessarily essential.

2)Sera's story could just be more varied and secondary than core to the Dragon Age narrative. Or the developers could have designed Sera deliberately to be contentious with the playerbase, keeping many from liking her, so that the reward for sticking with her is that much more enjoyable. She doesn't need to be series-plot important to be important to players. Keep her around and see! Or kick her out and suffer the consequences!

3)For all we know, Vivienne was more central to DAI's choices, but Sera could be part of a longer run (either of a future DLC or future game) that could be enriched or enabled by DAI choices. If we kick out Sera, she doesn't die. She just doesn't establish a relationship with the Inquisitor and Inquisition. She can still appear again, in a changed story context, and players can decide what to do about that.

[Toasted Llama]

Alister will break up with you if he is made king ( and if your not human and you didn't harden him) and if you let the man who is part of the reason his second substitute dad died. The former is because of human politics and the other is because to him its a betrayal.

Actually there are some fans of Loghain out there who would argue with you that the second reason why Alistair gives everyone the finger and f*cks off is really immature and close minded.

 

And remember, even Solas tells you two very valid perspectives of the battle at Ostagar!

Like what could Loghain do to save Duncan? The darkspawn are a nearly endless horde and if you don't kill the archdemon on time, your entire army is gone. If Loghain followed the signal, he might have sacrificed almost the entire Fereldan army and still lose the battle, leaving Ferelden defenseless. Plus you lighted the fire signal far too late, as you spent (most likely) more than an hour ploughing through darkspawn.

Lots of choices, character traits and even characters themselves aren't cut and dried. I actually find it brilliant that Bioware manages to hide that unless you put your feelings aside and dig deep into the situation/character at hand.

Same thing can be said for Sera

[SwobyJ]

An evil general trying to do the right thing by watching his King die.

 

Synthesisssss.

[SwobyJ]

Lol according to Solas, Loghain being good and bad are both right.   It's a nice little touch on the player's choices in DAO. Nothing is true canon then.

 

It must also be very frustrating to people looking for an objective canon though. But its always been at least a little bit of a Bioware thing that 'there is no true canon' - so this, um, what I'd call 'green stuff' is simply IMO a more overt expansion of something started long ago.

 

Regardless, if (for example for Loghain) something is true enough for you personally, and its something highly supported by a lot of the narrative, it'll probably continue to be more or less true, with occasional challenges and disruptions to your belief. Logahin is bad/good/complicated, alright, carry on. lol

[The Lone Shadow]

Actually there are some fans of Loghain out there who would argue with you that the second reason why Alistair gives everyone the finger and f*cks off is really immature and close minded.

 

And remember, even Solas tells you two very valid perspectives of the battle at Ostagar!

Like what could Loghain do to save Duncan? The darkspawn are a nearly endless horde and if you don't kill the archdemon on time, your entire army is gone. If Loghain followed the signal, he might have sacrificed almost the entire Fereldan army and still lose the battle, leaving Ferelden defenseless. Plus you lighted the fire signal far too late, as you spent (most likely) more than an hour ploughing through darkspawn.
 

 

I'm not arguing on what Loghain did. From what I've heard from his banter with our grandmother mage and what he tells you about being a leader right before you go to kill the Archdemon he sounds like a great general that cares about the lives of his men. He was proubebly right in what he did at Ostagar. I'm just saying from Alistair's perspective it feels like a betrayal. From a pragmatic perspective, making Loghain a warden would be the best path and Alistair's reaction to it is childish, putting his own personal feelings first over saving Ferelden.

 

All I was saying is, Alistair's perceived betrayal > Sera's you won't cast off your faith. In terms of break up.

 

LOL I caught that too when Solas says he saw a general trying to do the right thing, and an evil man watching his King die, then he says it's all real. Well played BW.

 

And tbh I blame that witch from the Chantry for not letting Uldred signal Loghain. Then Loghain would have no excuse if he was planning to run away since the signal would have come on time. And if he wasn't lying about it being too late, would he have jumped into the fight to save Cailan or showed his "true colors" and still fled? Lesson of the day? The Chantry is EVIL. 

 

Lol, the Chantry just Fs up everything.

[robertthebard]

Actually there are some fans of Loghain out there who would argue with you that the second reason why Alistair gives everyone the finger and f*cks off is really immature and close minded.
 
And remember, even Solas tells you two very valid perspectives of the battle at Ostagar!
Like what could Loghain do to save Duncan? The darkspawn are a nearly endless horde and if you don't kill the archdemon on time, your entire army is gone. If Loghain followed the signal, he might have sacrificed almost the entire Fereldan army and still lose the battle, leaving Ferelden defenseless. Plus you lighted the fire signal far too late, as you spent (most likely) more than an hour ploughing through darkspawn.

Lots of choices, character traits and even characters themselves aren't cut and dried. I actually find it brilliant that Bioware manages to hide that unless you put your feelings aside and dig deep into the situation/character at hand.

Same thing can be said for Sera

Not really trying to single you out in particular, but this post is where the Loghain thread begins, and I just wanted to point out that, at Adamant Fortress, Loghain will straight out state that he betrayed the Wardens. By extension, by his own admission, he betrayed Cailan. I sincerely believe this is why he tried to keep Cailan off the battlefield, but went ahead with his plan to not show up anyway. As he says at the Landsmeet, very roughly paraphrased "another (the word he uses escapes me here) trying to play at war". To me, this is a "fairly" clear indication that his actions were calculated.

[9TailsFox]

Lol according to Solas, Loghain being good and bad are both right.   It's a nice little touch on the player's choices in DAO. Nothing is true canon then.

Spoiler

 

 

[The Baconer]

Loghain's transformation into a total scumbag came after Ostagar.

[9TailsFox]

LMAO! That's exactly what I think would have happened. When you run across that bridge, the amount of them still heading towards you is so endless, by Denerim, the Darkspawn seem less. Gaider himself explained Loghain's real intentions, and it was a no win situation he tried to get Cailan to back out of to no avail, but people can see it how they want in the end. Interestingly enough I always saw it Gaider's way without knowing what he said until recently.

Who should you listen 60 years old great military strategist warrior. Or 20 somthing years playboy who have his first battle

[SwobyJ]

Loghain was more or less tactically sound.

 

He also was eventually eager to do what he did, and also might have, at least sort of, created the crappy situation Ostagar was in, the sonnavabeech.

[Toasted Llama]

Not really trying to single you out in particular, but this post is where the Loghain thread begins, and I just wanted to point out that, at Adamant Fortress, Loghain will straight out state that he betrayed the Wardens. By extension, by his own admission, he betrayed Cailan. I sincerely believe this is why he tried to keep Cailan off the battlefield, but went ahead with his plan to not show up anyway. As he says at the Landsmeet, very roughly paraphrased "another (the word he uses escapes me here) trying to play at war". To me, this is a "fairly" clear indication that his actions were calculated.

Yes, his actions against the Wardens (and actually Wardens only, when you think about it) are 'disgusting', as he stubbornly, like an immature child, holds on to his belief that one doesn't need Grey Wardens to defeat a blight (despite evidence proving otherwise), also why he blamed the Wardens after Ostagar. Meanwhile, Cailan glorified the Wardens into the heavens, so Loghains resentment probably grew even more.

 

But whatever Loghain's plan might've been from the start; at the time Loghain was supposed to charge, the battle was already lost and Cailan/Duncan were doomed anyway.

 

And who knows, maybe Loghain says he betrayed the Wardens and that he did it on purpose just to **** with the last 2 remaining Wardens. (Maybe he knows what Alistair is like because he knew Maric, so maybe he knew that Alistair was going to throw a temper tantrum/show some of his bad colours?)

 

Lots of maybes and "what if" situations here, so every time when playing a "good" character at the landsmeet, I just put my fingers in my ear, scream really loud and chop Loghain's head off

 

 

I'm not arguing on what Loghain did. From what I've heard from his banter with our grandmother mage and what he tells you about being a leader right before you go to kill the Archdemon he sounds like a great general that cares about the lives of his men. He was proubebly right in what he did at Ostagar. I'm just saying from Alistair's perspective it feels like a betrayal. From a pragmatic perspective, making Loghain a warden would be the best path and Alistair's reaction to it is childish, putting his own personal feelings first over saving Ferelden.

 

All I was saying is, Alistair's perceived betrayal > Sera's you won't cast off your faith. In terms of break up.

 

True, but maybe in Sera's eyes you're "betraying" her as well when you just try and reinforce a conflicting belief. I think she believes that only 1 faith/belief/religion can be true and she has already picked her side. Saying "oh I'll believe this and you'll believe that" might not work with her logic; choosing to belief something else as her might seem like - in her eyes - you're denying her faith and reinforcing events that everyone went through but Sera doesn't want to believe.

 

If this sounds confusing or doesn't make any sense, that's okay, that's Sera after all x'D

[andy6915]

True, but maybe in Sera's eyes you're "betraying" her as well when you just try and reinforce a conflicting belief. I think she believes that only 1 faith/belief/religion can be true and she has already picked her side. Saying "oh I'll believe this and you'll believe that" might not work with her logic; choosing to belief something else as her might seem like - in her eyes - you're denying her faith and reinforcing events that everyone went through but Sera doesn't want to believe.

 

If this sounds confusing or doesn't make any sense, that's okay, that's Sera after all x'D

 

This is why an atheist qunari* is the best person to romance her. Absolutely no conflict of religious views there because you already think all beliefs including elven ones are nothing but nonsensical garbage, and she's about as physically attracted to you as you can get which even gives you increased approval for flirting compared to other races doing the same flirting with her. It's like they specifically wrote her romance with a qunari woman in mind.

 

*Qunari seem to be the most likely race to be a complete nonbeliever. The qun teaches that faith based religions are entirely full of crap, as Sten in DAO makes quite clear. So even though the Qunquisitor was raised by tal-vashoth, their parents likely didn't lose their ingrained anti-religion views just because they left the qun and then very likely passed that view on to their child. Still, there is roleplaying room there. Your parents could have converted to Andastrian faith, or you could have on your own without your parents being involved in the decision.

[Seraphim24]

Ah, this thread.... well a lot of people hate Sera because she has rather high emotional intelligence and intuition (well, er, you know a fictional character and all), which puts people off I suspect.

 

Added to that she is frequently very chaotic and unfocused in perhaps putting those insights into a more concrete plan of action, so that leaves people endlessly fraustrated.

 

It's kind of like the equivalent of someone who will immediately and precisely tell you exactly what a problem is and can clarify the details of that problem endlessly, but can't actually help you solve the problem. I think those people tend to raise ire because it sort of feels like, well why tell me if you don't know how to fix it?

[9TailsFox]

Loghain was more or less tactically sound.

 

He also was eventually eager to do what he did, and also might have, at least sort of, created the crappy situation Ostagar was in, the sonnavabeech.

This is why Loghain is great antagonist he is not evil, he is not good, he is human. Some wardens can do much worse thinks then Loghain did. Come on sacrifice elves to get 2 con points.

[The Lone Shadow]

Ah, this thread.... well a lot of people hate Sera because she has rather high emotional intelligence and intuition (well, er, you know a fictional character and all), which puts people off I suspect.

 

Added to that she is frequently very chaotic and unfocused in perhaps putting those insights into a more concrete plan of action, so that leaves people endlessly fraustrated.

 

It's kind of like the equivalent of someone who will immediately and precisely tell you exactly what a problem is and can clarify the details of that problem endlessly, but can't actually help you solve the problem. I think those people tend to raise ire because it sort of feels like, well why tell me if you don't know how to fix it?

 

I just looked up emotional intelligence: http://www.success.c...al-intelligence

 

"What exactly is emotional intelligence (EI)? Psychology Today says it’s:

1. The ability to accurately identify your own emotions, as well as those of others
2. The ability to utilize emotions and apply them to tasks, like thinking and problem-solving
3. The ability to manage emotions, including controlling your own, as well as the ability to cheer up or calm down another person"

 

Traits of emotionally intelligent people:

 

1. They’re change agents. People with high EI aren’t afraid of change. They understand that it’s a necessary part of life—and they adapt.

 

6. They’re curious. An inborn sense of wonder and curiosity makes them delightful to be around. They don’t judge; they explore the possibilities. They ask questions and are open to new solutions.

 

Does this really sound like Sera? I'm not seeing it.

 

I do think she has intuition, she does have insight into certain problems, but I see her as being far from emotionally intelligent. She acts and thinks on an emotional level, but she is not emotionally intelligent.

 

Also, I don't care if Sera has no solutions. Most people, including myself know that there are problems but don't know how to go about fixing them and will point them out regardless.

 

True, but maybe in Sera's eyes you're "betraying" her as well when you just try and reinforce a conflicting belief. I think she believes that only 1 faith/belief/religion can be true and she has already picked her side. Saying "oh I'll believe this and you'll believe that" might not work with her logic; choosing to belief something else as her might seem like - in her eyes - you're denying her faith and reinforcing events that everyone went through but Sera doesn't want to believe.

 

If this sounds confusing or doesn't make any sense, that's okay, that's Sera after all x'D

 

It doesn't sound confusing, it just shows again the fact that Sera has the mentality of a ten year old and is not suited for an adult relationship.

 

Still, Alister >>> Sera.

 

Alister: You're letting the guy, who let my second dad die, live!

 

Sera: Your beliefs threaten me! Give them up and believe like me or I'm breaking up with and I won't be your friend anymore.

 

Seriously, f Sera.

 

This is why an atheist qunari* is the best person to romance her. Absolutely no conflict of religious views there because you already think all beliefs including elven ones are nothing but nonsensical garbage, and she's about as physically attracted to you as you can get which even gives you increased approval for flirting compared to other races doing the same flirting with her. It's like they specifically wrote her romance with a qunari woman in mind.

 

 

 

Funny she has problem with another faith but not lack of faith. Maybe one day she will feel threatened by the qunari quizz's lack of faith and give her an ultimatum. Sera: "Start believing in the Maker or I'm breaking up with you!" 

[Fozee]

People hate Sera because she's too cute for them.

 

/thread

[TheEnigmousPretentiator]

Ah yes. The high and mighty "intellectual" analysis novels detailing how horrible and stupid of a person Sera supposedly is, back in full swing.
I really wish people would type in Sera slang though, then I wouldn't feel like sleeping half way through reading them.

Spare me your flippant nature.

[Rel Fexive]

"That's you being reasonable, yeah?" *snort*

[Paragonslustre]

What's to hate?  When I first encountered her in game I was really taken aback because she came across as really brusque - to me she did at that point and I wasn't ready to accept it.  My first playthrough, I didn't even bother to engage with her because she p*issed me off.  Bruised my Inq's ego more like - ugh, I was so pompous!  Then I stopped and listened to her and realised it wasn't all about me after all.  I love her bravery and out of all the companions for me she is the closest I got to that feeling with my Hawke and Varric.  Ever the best of friends.

[MyKingdomCold]

I thought she was kind of a baby when she threw that temper tantrum with Pel Harmon. Kind of wished she'd do that against me if I pissed her off enough so I could break her neck or something.