2858 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

The problem I've got with how the writers justified Sera's actions is that they portrayed the nobility in a VERY unrealistic light. As if all Orlesian aristocrats were an accurate representation of how medieval nobility is supposed to be.

 

The aristocracy was the government before the formation of National States. They wrote the laws, they judged crimes and legal matters of their subjects, they defended their borders and ensured the safety of their people, they regulated trade and commerce, they protected farmers from the abuses of loan sharks, they mediated disputes involving ownership of land or property, they granted co-ownership of their lands to the traditional farmers, they ensured inheritance of lands to old farming families, asf.

 

They were responsible for protecting the people, upholding the law and the maintenance of order. Their subjects in turn were responsible for working the land and giving them a small percentage of their production to the land owner. That was all. The nobility wasn't some arrogant, callous class as Inquisition displayed. Sure,they weren't all good, but that's not the point. The game offers a distorted vision of what the aristocracy - of what ANY aristocracy - is like. The nobility had responsibilities which could lead to a rebellion from their subjects if they failed with their duties, as it happened a few times in medieval Europe.

 

(Hell, there would be NO EUROPE without the nobility and the Church! It was thanks to their efforts to rebuild society that the continent could recover from the downfall of the Roman Empire and rise as a civilization once more.)

 

That's what I dislike in the game. It portrays nobility in a twisted way and fools the player into believing his natural prejudices against an upper class are righteous. It just feeds ignorance, rather than promoting a realistic view of the governing class in a fictional time when the law of the land was supreme.

 

This is a very serious issue to me because this was born from a certain speech delivered by an influential philosopher that insisted the world was split between only two classes. And that one class was inherently better than the other. It's the kind of ideology that doesn't explain anything, that doesn't undo falsehoods. Rather, it just feeds them by oversimplifying reality and appealing to people's natural hatred against anyone who has more money or a better lifestyle in order to incite them to violence.

 

What people don't know is that said philosoper was paid a handsome sum of money by ANOTHER rich class - bankers and tycoons from the industry - to spread such ideal with the intent of demoting one group from the seat of power and allow them to take it for themselves. The people are just used as cannon fodder without being aware of it.

 

So, to see a game so openly merchandising such speech disguised as entertainment REALLY bothers me, because it's a fraudulent ideology conveniently used in a war between two powerful classes, both with money and influence, but which looks like a war between the poor and the rich on the surface. I just hope gamers have the intelligence to realize what is it for real, rather than just succumbing to the attractive speech of being like Robin Hood to fight the evil aristocracy and thinking this sort of twisted mentality applies to reality. Especially with that nonsense of the 1% against the 99%. It's just another offshoot of the same fraudulent ideology. It only shed its old skin and is now being reintroduced to the people wearing brand, new colours.  

[dragonagenewbie]

Absolutely nothing. Sera was just showing herself to be the bully she is. 

 

 

So you pick the two easy ones and leave the rest...interesting

 

For the advisor pranks she mentions why she wanted to do all of those things.  She noticed that morale in Skyhold was pretty low (what with all the Breach and Corypheus stuff going on) so she wanted to do some things to boost morale.  For Cullen she makes his table wobbly by putting something under one of the table legs...soldiers happy.  Josephine she puts a water bucket above the door which she says would make the kitchen staff happy (minus the one that has to clean it Sera says).  For Leliana doesnt want to mess with her private things pretty considerate for a bully i guess.  Wants to mess with her birds but i dont think Seras so mean spirited that she'll do something that kills them.  That gets interrupted so you run away.  Tresspasser i havent gotten around to playing yet, but looking at some youtube videos it seems like she's doing pranks to raise morale again (with the pressure full on again she says).  So i see you and her going around pie'ing everybody in the face, mostly nobles it looks like but also you two pie each other. 

 

All that seems similar to pie in the face contests that you see at workplaces.  Those are usually done to raise morale or money, although in DAI with Seras pranks the recipients of the pranks dont have a say in it. But i guess if it keeps people from "falling on their swords before fighting Corypheus" then maybe its worth it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So you pick the two easy ones and leave the rest...interesting

For most of the others, we don't know anything about them or is a hypothetical so there is no real objective answer that can be given.

 

For the advisor pranks she mentions why she wanted to do all of those things.  She noticed that morale in Skyhold was pretty low (what with all the Breach and Corypheus stuff going on) so she wanted to do some things to boost morale.  For Cullen she makes his table wobbly by putting something under one of the table legs...soldiers happy.  Josephine she puts a water bucket above the door which she says would make the kitchen staff happy (minus the one that has to clean it Sera says).  For Leliana doesnt want to mess with her private things pretty considerate for a bully i guess.  Wants to mess with her birds but i dont think Seras so mean spirited that she'll do something that kills them.  That gets interrupted so you run away.  Tresspasser i havent gotten around to playing yet, but looking at some youtube videos it seems like she's doing pranks to raise morale again (with the pressure full on again she says).  So i see you and her going around pie'ing everybody in the face, mostly nobles it looks like but also you two pie each other. 

So as I said, she was a bully. Cullen, Josephine, and Leliana did nothing wrong but were unwilling victims of Sera's pranks because she wanted other people to laugh at them. That is a textbook definition of a bully. 

 

All that seems similar to pie in the face contests that you see at workplaces.  Those are usually done to raise morale or money, although in DAI with Seras pranks the recipients of the pranks dont have a say in it. But i guess if it keeps people from "falling on their swords before fighting Corypheus" then maybe its worth it.

In those contests, people agree to take pies in the face. The people that Sera pranks agreed to no such thing. 

[Heimdall]

At times, yes they do. Other times, based on things like her war table missions, and hell, even her introduction, her actions do harm the oppressors. But in the end, at least she's trying to make a difference. She can see the real problems with the world, and she's doing the best an orphaned elf with very little in the way for training, education or influence can do to fix them. Whereas the "proper" elves just wander around whining how the past was so great (it wasn't) and how things were better for them (back when they were slaves) and how everything is the humans fault (some of it was, but elves were hardly blameless themselves).

She isn't really trying to make a difference. In a banter with Solas (When he tries to lecture her on revolutionary tactics), she says she isn't out for any kind of revolution or reorganization of the power structure because the new people on top would just start doing the same old **** again. She's just trying to make the status quo more bearable for the ones on the bottom.

I actually think that's a rather astute if cynical insight on her part.

[dragonagenewbie]

For most of the others, we don't know anything about them or is a hypothetical so there is no real objective answer that can be given.

 

So as I said, she was a bully. Cullen, Josephine, and Leliana did nothing wrong but were unwilling victims of Sera's pranks because she wanted other people to laugh at them. That is a textbook definition of a bully. 

 

In those contests, people agree to take pies in the face. The people that Sera pranks agreed to no such thing. 

 

 

Pie in the face contests had not been invented yet in DAI so they had to go unwillingly. 

 

If you didnt answer those other 3 i listed because you didnt know about them then how much do you know about the pranking quests? did you just hear from somewhere that this one companion does pranks, and you thought that pranks were silly so this companion must be silly and a bully?

 

I *did* mention that she does those things to raise morale.  On one hand you have the dignity of these 3 people and on the other hand you have the morale of a bunch of soldiers and staff at Skyhold.  If you've ever been in the military you should know that morale even during wartime is important.  There's stories all over and on the news about how commanders will try to make sure their soldiers out in a foxhole or doing a front line patrol will get a Turkey dinner for Thanksgiving or Christmas.  During WW1 there was the Christmas truce which i'm not going to bother explaining but just go google it or something.  Those kinds of things happen to raise the morale for the people who do all the grunt work.

 

Sera was the only person who stepped up to do something about the morale issue.  So yes she's a bully, but she's also the self appointed Skyhold morale officer.

[General TSAR]

Is it too much to just say that she is just annoying and far too immature?

[Ghost Gal]

So you pick the two easy ones and leave the rest...interesting

 

For the advisor pranks she mentions why she wanted to do all of those things.  She noticed that morale in Skyhold was pretty low (what with all the Breach and Corypheus stuff going on) so she wanted to do some things to boost morale. 

 

Problem is we never actually see these people she's supposedly doing this for.

 

That's one of my many problems with Sera. Except for one scene where she talks to elven servants at the Winter Palace, she's never shown actually interacting with any of the "little people" she claims to care about. She's always shown standing by herself in the tavern at Haven, she has her own room to herself that she always hangs out in at the tavern in Skyhold, she claims she's noticed morale is low and pranking the advisers will cheer them up, but we never actually see anyone having a laugh at the pranks except Sera. We only have her word to go on that there's low morale or that these pranks will even cheer them, and she's not the most reliable narrator. 

 

If we were to have a scene of, say, Cullen calling a large meeting at his office and his soldiers looking demoralized by having to sit through another one of his grilling speeches and getting hounded for not working up to his standards, but then cheering up and possibly giggling under their breathes when he gets frustrated by his desk constantly squeaking, it would make the whole scene worth it.

 

But as it is, it just seems to be Sera screwing with people because she enjoys it, then using the "little people" as an excuse.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Pie in the face contests had not been invented yet in DAI so they had to go unwillingly. 

How is that a defense?

How about just not do that period? 

 

If you didnt answer those other 3 i listed because you didnt know about them then how much do you know about the pranking quests? did you just hear from somewhere that this one companion does pranks, and you thought that pranks were silly so this companion must be silly and a bully?

Stop the condescension. I said we don't know anything about the characters, not that I don't know about the quests. You even ask what those people did to deserve it. I did her personal quest, saw her being a bully, so reloaded a prevuious save and have refused to partake in that quest ever since.

 

I *did* mention that she does those things to raise morale.  On one hand you have the dignity of these 3 people and on the other hand you have the morale of a bunch of soldiers and staff at Skyhold.  If you've ever been in the military you should know that morale even during wartime is important.  There's stories all over and on the news about how commanders will try to make sure their soldiers out in a foxhole or doing a front line patrol will get a Turkey dinner for Thanksgiving or Christmas.  During WW1 there was the Christmas truce which i'm not going to bother explaining but just go google it or something.  Those kinds of things happen to raise the morale for the people who do all the grunt work.

And? That is not a valid excuse for what she was doing. There are other ways to improve morale other than being a bully, like what you listed. Speaking of, your examples and what Sera does are not comparable in any way, shape, or form. What Sera does is like mocking a superior officer, something which is frowned upon and reprimanded in militaries. 

 

Sera was the only person who stepped up to do something about the morale issue.  So yes she's a bully, but she's also the self appointed Skyhold morale officer.

No she isn't. The advisors she bullied have done a lot more to improve morale than she is. They have done things like you gave as good examples, like making sure they are clothed, fed, warm, entertained, etc. There is even a War Table operation about it specifically. 

 

She has no right to be, and self-appointing herself as this is just another example of insubordination which is one reason I kick her out if I recruit her at all.  

[dragonagenewbie]

Problem is we never actually see these people she's supposedly doing this for.

 

That's one of my many problems with Sera. Except for one scene where she talks to elven servants at the Winter Palace, she's never shown actually interacting with any of the "little people" she claims to care about. She's always shown standing by herself in the tavern at Haven, she has her own room to herself that she always hangs out in at the tavern in Skyhold, she claims she's noticed morale is low and pranking the advisers will cheer them up, but we never actually see anyone having a laugh at the pranks except Sera. We only have her word to go on that there's low morale or that these pranks will even cheer them, and she's not the most reliable narrator. 

 

If we were to have a scene of, say, Cullen calling a large meeting at his office and his soldiers looking demoralized by having to sit through another one of his grilling speeches and getting hounded for not working up to his standards, but then cheering up and possibly giggling under their breathes when he gets frustrated by his desk constantly squeaking, it would make the whole scene worth it.

 

But as it is, it just seems to be Sera screwing with people because she enjoys it, then using the "little people" as an excuse.

 

I was just being thorough and adding as many as i could remember and not conveniently leaving any out just to make my point.  Some of them you'd pretty much have to guess based on their dialogue because it wont clearly state "here be bad guys!".

 

 

#1 is the nob from when you first met Sera. I'll leave out the part where he attacks you because any normal person would do that if someone were in their home.  But he knows who you are and he says stuff about "his victories against you elsewhere" or whatever.  Sera mentions that her group thinks that the inquisition would want him dead.  Who are they to decide what the Inq wants right? but they knew something about him.

 

#2 is from her personal quest and there is a war table operation for it too. There's quite a bit mentioned in there about how commoners were being mistreated.

 

#3 when you have your first talk with her in Haven she tells you what kind of stuff you'd be deserving of.  That kinda makes it seem like her group has some kind of principle or ground rules since all you'd get is a "a pie or something" according to Sera.

 

#4 and 5 she gave you the why as you picked up the quests.

[Ghost Gal]

I was just being thorough and adding as many as i could remember and not conveniently leaving any out just to make my point.  Some of them you'd pretty much have to guess based on their dialogue because it wont clearly state "here be bad guys!".

 

 

#1 is the nob from when you first met Sera. I'll leave out the part where he attacks you because any normal person would do that if someone were in their home.  But he knows who you are and he says stuff about "his victories against you elsewhere" or whatever.  Sera mentions that her group thinks that the inquisition would want him dead.  Who are they to decide what the Inq wants right? but they knew something about him.

 

#2 is from her personal quest and there is a war table operation for it too. There's quite a bit mentioned in there about how commoners were being mistreated.

 

#3 when you have your first talk with her in Haven she tells you what kind of stuff you'd be deserving of.  That kinda makes it seem like her group has some kind of principle or ground rules since all you'd get is a "a pie or something" according to Sera.

 

#4 and 5 she gave you the why as you picked up the quests.

 

1) That "nob" is indeed a jerk, but we never actually see any of the commoners he's supposedly misplaced. We see him killing a member of Red Jenny after they messed with him, but... yeah, he retaliated after they messed with him. Not that I think this guy is good news, but from a storytelling perspective it's another bad case of "Tell, don't show." We're told this guy hurts his subjects, but we're not shown him doing this.

 

We know Sera hates nobles and cares about common folk, but she's only ever shown screwing with and killing nobles, but never actually interacting with, showing kindness toward, or helping commoners with faces. Given her lack of any interaction with the "common folk" she claims to care about so much (especially here, where it would have been most helpful), her desire to screw with nobles can easily come across as Sera just hating nobles rather than wanting to help commoners. (Her own in-game character description is "robs from the rich, keeps it.")

 

2) The war table mission is just another case of "tell, don't show." 

 

3) Who the **** is Sera to decide who is deserving of what and why? It's just another case of her appointing herself Judge, Jury, and Executioner against people she barely knows based on her own personal criteria of what's acceptable and what's not. (Note: To her, sticking mages in towers just for being mages is fine. A noble being rude to their servants is deserving of a pie or an arrow to the face.)

 

4 and 5) Again, Sera may tell you why, but since we never really see anything to verify Sera's claims, and she herself is shown to have a very... biased view of the world, to say the least, she doesn't come across as the most reliable narrator.

[dragonagenewbie]

How is that a defense?

How about just not do that period? 

 

Stop the condescension. I said we don't know anything about the characters, not that I don't know about the quests. You even ask what those people did to deserve it. I did her personal quest, saw her being a bully, so reloaded a prevuious save and have refused to partake in that quest ever since.

 

And? That is not a valid excuse for what she was doing. There are other ways to improve morale other than being a bully, like what you listed. Speaking of, your examples and what Sera does are not comparable in any way, shape, or form. What Sera does is like mocking a superior officer, something which is frowned upon and reprimanded in militaries. 

 

No she isn't. The advisors she bullied have done a lot more to improve morale than she is. They have done things like you gave as good examples, like making sure they are clothed, fed, warm, etc. There is even a War Table operation about it specifically. 

 

She has no right to be, and self-appointing herself as this is just another example of insubordination which is one reason I kick her out if I recruit her at all.  

 

You said for the others ones that "you didnt know anything about them".  One of them has a war table mission and is her personal quest.  So now you are saying that you *did* do her personal quest.

 

 

As far as the morale thing goes? you mention that the advisors have done more for troop morale then Sera has.  Well then why is she telling me through quest dialogue that morale is low?  the things i mentioned like the Turkey Dinner is not comparable to what the advisors are doing.  A soldier in a foxhole will get an MRE which is a given...but a Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner taken out to them via a helicopter is like an indulgence.  Its going above and beyond what you needed to give that soldier.  The advisors giving their soldiers and subjects food, a warm bed and shelter are givens.  Going above and beyond would be like if Sera gave them all a feast with a pig over a spit, each of them a queen sized bed and their own house to live in or something.  See morale is low despite the advisors giving the soldiers and staff everything they need to function.  But Sera wants to go a bit above and beyond that and raise their morale even more.  And at that point in the game progression she was the only one that is trying to raise the morale.  I'd be willing to accept that other NPC's are doing their fair share of raising morale above and beyond as well...so long as there is quests, war table missions or dialogue that reflect that.

[Krypplingz]

And what did the nobles do to deserve the attention of Red Jenny? you mention Sera, innocents and other parts of her group annoying and pranking nobles.  So we know what Sera and friends are doing...but you left out what nobles did to deserve all those things.  Ohh and just to make sure you dont forget about any nobles....

 

1) arrow in my face noble - what did he do to deserve that?

 

2) Lord Mother Pus-Bucket - what did he do to deserve that?

 

3) You - if Sera were to "get" you then based on your actions so far what would she do to you?

 

4) random pranks - What did Josie, Cullen, and Leliana do to deserve their pranks?

 

5) drive by pies - what did those people do to deserve that?

 

If i forgot any feel free to add, but try not to leave out any details.

1) Mild spoilers

Spoiler

In your face arrows was a follower of Corypheus, planning to kill the Inquisitor, you just killed him first. You learn it if you recruit Sera after Haven.

So technically his death just came sooner than later. Well I suppose he never gets off his butt to confront you if you don't recruit Sera. Lazy sod.

2) Pus-bucket was fighting with another noble over land. Aka he was sending his soldiers to scare, attack and even kill peasants under the other nobles rule so they would abandon the space of land they were living in so he could take over. Loosing your land when your livelihood consist of farming is pretty bad. And personally I think terrorizing people and forcing them out of their home is a quite terrible thing to do. 

3) Depends on what the quizzy did. If they burned down farmholds then I suppose the response would be harsh. Otherwise...she might steal Quizzys breeches?

4) They didn't "deserve" the pranks. The pranks were done to take their minds off the whole "The world is going to the void and we are probably all going to die and all the work we've done will be for nothing" and to show the rest of the troops that the inner circle also had human emotions, they could get flustered, annoyed or angry and weren't perfect all the time. 

It might not have been a nice or perfect thing to do, but as Josephine says in the end "It was so wonderful to prepare for a small banquet instead of the end of the world" which could be read as "It was so wonderful to think of a smaller problem like a banquet instead of the end of the world".

So the idea was that she'd think: "It was so wonderful to deal with a small prank like that instead of the end of the world". So Sera's mind was in the right place but the execution might have been a bit flawed. 

5) No idea. But the cake was probably tasty and probably took the nobles mind of the whole debate that was brewing in the winter palace. 

[dragonagenewbie]

1) That "nob" is indeed a jerk, but we never actually see any of the commoners he's supposedly misplaced. We see him killing a member of Red Jenny after they messed with him, but... yeah, he retaliated after they messed with him. Not that I think this guy is good news, but from a storytelling perspective it's another bad case of "Tell, don't show." We're told this guy hurts his subjects, but we're not shown him doing this.

 

We know Sera hates nobles and cares about common folk, but she's only ever shown screwing with and killing nobles, but never actually interacting with, showing kindness toward, or helping commoners with faces. Given her lack of any interaction with the "common folk" she claims to care about so much (especially here, where it would have been most helpful), her desire to screw with nobles can easily come across as Sera just hating nobles rather than wanting to help commoners. (Her own in-game character description is "robs from the rich, keeps it.")

 

2) The war table mission is just another case of "tell, don't show." 

 

3) Who the **** is Sera to decide who is deserving of what and why? It's just another case of her appointing herself Judge, Jury, and Executioner against people she barely knows based on her own personal criteria of what's acceptable and what's not. (Note: To her, sticking mages in towers just for being mages is fine. A noble being rude to their servants is deserving of a pie or an arrow to the face.)

 

For my #1 i was actually talking about the very first time that you meet Sera and recruit her and the nob that she kills. 

 

For your #1 and #2 that sounds like the nob from her personal quest and war table mission. I had to do some searching for the actual dialogue from that quest because i havent dont it in a while. But i guess i'm different because i dont believe in the "tell not show" thing that you mentioned. We cant expect cutscenes for everything.  So if i read something on a quest log, a journal or the war table then i'll accept it at face value.  If i'm to think that the person giving me that info is a liar then the writers need to give me that impression that they *are* a liar.  But i did manage to find dialogue and cutscenes for that quest chain.

 

 

So basically its a land squabble and some fighting between nobs and commoners are caught in the middle.  Cullen had a report in there too towards the end of the clip about displaced refugees and how it was deliberate so that means they were evicted from their lands by nobs.  See when people keep mentioning how Sera got a bunch of commoners killed they always forget the "why" portion which is in the video.

[dragonagenewbie]

*snip*

 

 

hehe appreciate you talking the time to answer all those, but like i told someone else those were actually directed at Bayonet Hipshot (sp).  He was listing out how Sera had annoyed various nobs but they left out the reason why Sera annoyed that particular nob (which was #2 in my list).  I was trying to get Bayonet to think about the reasons instead of just saying "she did this she's bad".

[fdrty]

1) That "nob" is indeed a jerk, but we never actually see any of the commoners he's supposedly misplaced. We see him killing a member of Red Jenny after they messed with him, but... yeah, he retaliated after they messed with him. Not that I think this guy is good news, but from a storytelling perspective it's another bad case of "Tell, don't show." We're told this guy hurts his subjects, but we're not shown him doing this.

 

We know Sera hates nobles and cares about common folk, but she's only ever shown screwing with and killing nobles, but never actually interacting with, showing kindness toward, or helping commoners with faces. Given her lack of any interaction with the "common folk" she claims to care about so much (especially here, where it would have been most helpful), her desire to screw with nobles can easily come across as Sera just hating nobles rather than wanting to help commoners. (Her own in-game character description is "robs from the rich, keeps it.")

 

2) The war table mission is just another case of "tell, don't show." 

 

3) Who the **** is Sera to decide who is deserving of what and why? It's just another case of her appointing herself Judge, Jury, and Executioner against people she barely knows based on her own personal criteria of what's acceptable and what's not. (Note: To her, sticking mages in towers just for being mages is fine. A noble being rude to their servants is deserving of a pie or an arrow to the face.)

 

4 and 5) Again, Sera may tell you why, but since we never really see anything to verify Sera's claims, and she herself is shown to have a very... biased view of the world, to say the least, she doesn't come across as the most reliable narrator.

 

 

Inquisition is a long - and expensive - enough game as it is: the 'Tell, don't show' is done primarily to save costs. Sera's missions aren't integral to the plot, they're just done for her characterisation, and in that regard I think telling is enough. Many other quest details are exposited in such a manner, so if you really have a problem with that particular fact in that particular quest, then why do you not complain about half of the sidequests and war table missions?

 

You aren't supposed to like every companion equally - there will be some you love and some you hate (that's one thing I actually prefer to Mass Effect). I hated Vivienne, didn't get why everyone loved Iron Bull (he was just a bit of a meathead, and his politics were out of wack) and was disappointed that Varric didn't have much to do (except lie about Hawke), but loved Dorian, Solas, Cass,Cole and Blackwall.

 

Funny thing is I hated Sera at first. I legit couldn't decipher half of what she was saying. She was just too manic and I found her to be jarring. But I began to realise that her perspective was important (both as a commoner and as a city elf), that she added much needed levity to Inquisition, which can otherwise be a overly serious game.

 

I agree with your point that more could have been done to show her caring for commoners, as that is an integral part to her character.

 

But I don't understand your whole 'Who appointed Sera judge, jury and executioner?' point. Because, in a feudal system, who appointed the nobles? Sera does what she does because of both the ridiculous inequality of feudalism, and the lack of any formal accountability of the nobles. You can't complain that she doesn't stay within the confines of justice as described by the system when the system is inequal and biased against her and her ilk (elves, poor, lowborn, etc)

 

Sera believes in circles because they protect the common people (and, in p-art, because she is ignorant about magic). She is against the feudal exploitation of the common people by nobles (which she has seen first hand). I do not see how these two things are contradictory, even if they aren't exactly the most informed opinions.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You said for the others ones that "you didnt know anything about them".  One of them has a war table mission and is her personal quest.  So now you are saying that you *did* do her personal quest.

I never said I didn't. I said for most of the others that you listed we don't really know anything about them. Most =/= all. The person in the video is obvious what he did so no need to answer an obvious question. Even then Sera goes to far, going against the Inquisitor and murdering him if we ask too many questions. 

 

As far as the morale thing goes? you mention that the advisors have done more for troop morale then Sera has.  Well then why is she telling me through quest dialogue that morale is low? 

Because her definition does not fit actual definition, because she is using it as a cover or excuse, because she doesn't pay attention, etc. There are a number of reasons why. Why do you think Sera's word is gospel? 

 

the things i mentioned like the Turkey Dinner is not comparable to what the advisors are doing.  A soldier in a foxhole will get an MRE which is a given...but a Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner taken out to them via a helicopter is like an indulgence.  Its going above and beyond what you needed to give that soldier.  The advisors giving their soldiers and subjects food, a warm bed and shelter are givens.  Going above and beyond would be like if Sera gave them all a feast with a pig over a spit, each of them a queen sized bed and their own house to live in or something.

Again, there is literally a war table mission where the soldiers are indulged, not just necessities. Most soldiers would also prefer a steady supply of givens compared to five minutes of laughter.

 

See morale is low despite the advisors giving the soldiers and staff everything they need to function.  But Sera wants to go a bit above and beyond that and raise their morale even more.  And at that point in the game progression she was the only one that is trying to raise the morale.  I'd be willing to accept that other NPC's are doing their fair share of raising morale above and beyond as well...so long as there is quests, war table missions or dialogue that reflect that.

Source? I want your source that Sera was the only one improving morale, or that it was even this low to begin with. All we have is Sera's word, and that doesn't go far. Until and even then, there are other ways to go about it than being a bully. I don't tolerate bullies. 

[dragonagenewbie]

3) Who the **** is Sera to decide who is deserving of what and why? It's just another case of her appointing herself Judge, Jury, and Executioner against people she barely knows based on her own personal criteria of what's acceptable and what's not. (Note: To her, sticking mages in towers just for being mages is fine. A noble being rude to their servants is deserving of a pie or an arrow to the face.)

 

Ohh forgot to address this one too...

 

I usually consider the setting before asking that kind question "who is _____ to decide who is deserving".  It's a medieval setting and it appears there is quite a bit of corruption going on.  Who's looking after the commoners displaced by the nobles land war? if that happened in your home town you'd have courts, law enforcement, lawyers and whoever else getting involved.  But in the games setting there doesnt appear to be anyone stepping in.  So thats where the Red Jennys come in i suppose.  Since nobody is there to represent the common folk they take it upon themselves to do that.

 

And for the mages thing? she didnt do that, you did   she just approved of it.  I think its wrong but i suppose i can understand her viewpoint.  An all out mage vs templar war was happening with a lot of collateral damage going on.  What kind of viewpoint do you think your average bloke is going to take vs the templars or the mages? you think he cares about politics or faction redemption and rebuilding? all he knows is he's scared and that a mage fireballed his house and a templar shield slammed him in the face.

[dragonagenewbie]

 

 

Source? I want your source that Sera was the only one improving morale, or that it was even this low to begin with. All we have is Sera's word, and that doesn't go far. Until and even then, there are other ways to go about it than being a bully. I don't tolerate bullies. 

 

https://youtu.be/7jRKr8E9Tn0?t=9

 

If you are going to judge an in game character and dismiss or accept their dialogue based on what you think of them, then i'm not providing you with anything.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

https://youtu.be/7jRKr8E9Tn0?t=9

 

If you are going to judge an in game character and dismiss or accept their dialogue based on what you think of them, then i'm not providing you with anything.

All this videom proves is that your defense for her is wrong. She literally says she is doing this for herself because she can't have fun with people being like they are. She assumes that people will think different from what they say. When the Inquisitor says they think she is wrong, she says it works for her so that means she is right. So you want me to trust her word, okay then her word says you are wrong. 

[Ghost Gal]

Inquisition is a long - and expensive - enough game as it is: the 'Tell, don't show' is done primarily to save costs. Sera's missions aren't integral to the plot, they're just done for her characterisation, and in that regard I think telling is enough. Many other quest details are exposited in such a manner, so if you really have a problem with that particular fact in that particular quest, then why do you not complain about half of the sidequests and war table missions?

 

Sera has like seven cut scenes, not including romance scenes: the scene where you meet her in Val Royeaux, your first conversation in Haven, the first time you talk to her in Skyhold, her personal quest with Douchy McNoble, her personal quest with the pranks, her personal quest where eating cookies on the rooftop, and your conversation after the Temple of Mythal.

 

Not one of them show her interacting with any of the common folk she claims to be such a huge fan of. She's only ever shown hanging out by herself away from other people, or screwing with or murdering nobles. For supposedly being such a huge part of her character, we never actually see her interacting with common folk.

 

Compare Iron Bull, who has two cut scenes showing him hanging out with and obviously being close with his Chargers (first his introductory scene where he has them "break out the casks!" then later introducing the Inquisitor to them at Skyhold), and one of him hanging out with Inquisition's underlings when he has you go undercover to see what your people really think of you (since you don't know your people the way he knows his Chargers). Also, once you get to Skyhold you also see him spending all his time at the tavern, only unlike Sera he's hanging out at the bottom floor with Krem and Maryden and the other patrons, rather than by himself in his own private room.

 

Funny thing, both Bull and Sera tell you you should really get to know the people working under you. Difference is, we see Bull interacting with her Chargers and your foot soldiers, and he has you go to meet them face-to-face so you'll see names and faces the way he does. Sera often tells you you shouldn't get too big for your breeches or get to the point you don't notice your serving class, yet she's never shown interacting with or having you meet them either.

 

Furthermore, Bull also keeps morale up with his men by doing fun things for them like "Break out the casks!" and "No Pants Fridays." Sera CLAIMS she sees morale is low (but whether this is true or not is anyone's guess, and considering how disconnected from reality she is most of the time I don't find her to be a credible source), and what's her answer? Do nice things for Inquisition's common folk like put on karaoke night at the tavern or pass out ice cream and beer? NOPE! Her "solution" is to to pick on a few people (the advisers) in order to get a laugh at their expense by other people--if those people would enjoy seeing the prank at all.

 

But I don't understand your whole 'Who appointed Sera judge, jury and executioner?' point.

 

What the heck do you think I mean? The whole reason Sera joined the Inquisition was to make sure you don't get "too big for your breeches" by her estimation, but she never says what she considers "too big" or "too important." If you do step out of line, she's not going to tell you what you did. She's going to punish you based on her own personal criteria of how severe your transgressions were and how great your punishment should be, based only on her

 

And Sera has shown before that she's willing to murder people based on little to no information about them. The noble she shoots when you first meet him, for example. She herself admits, "I don't know this idiot from manners." Question her further, and she admits she really doesn't know anything about this guy except what she heard on the Red Jenny vine, about how he was a jerk who was got a lot of complaints from his servants. Well, so what? Did she know for a fact he was a big enough dirtbag that he deserved to get murdered in cold blood? No, but since she his little serving boy didn't like him and she heard rumors about him from the Red Jennies, he MUST have deserved to die. "Someone got a laugh, someone got even, and someone got paid." Who? Who did? Who wanted this guy dead? Was his grudge against him warranted or deserved? We don't know, and Sera didn't either when she loosed her arrow. Not that she cared - she gladly took his life without knowing anything about him or whether he really deserved it.

 

In fact, there's a whole codex entry about a father advising against his son seeking out Red Jennies, because often you never know what you get from them. You never know whether the person they send to deal with the noble gives them a punishment too severe for the purported crime or too light. They operate based on rumor and hearsay, and those aren't reliable--but many of them are still willing to murder or ruin people's lives based on rumors alone. And Sera is one of them.

 

"If you get too big, I'll shoot you in the face. If you're just kind of big, you'll just get a pie to the face." Who the heck is she to decide who deserves what? 

 

Sera believes in circles because they protect the common people (and, in p-art, because she is ignorant about magic). She is against the feudal exploitation of the common people by nobles (which she has seen first hand). I do not see how these two things are contradictory, even if they aren't exactly the most informed opinions.

 

According to her, it's okay to trample on the rights and freedom of mages because it's "for the greater good," but she'll never tolerate hurting common folk under any circumstances even if one claimed it was for the greater good. She's a hypocrite, pure and simple. Locking people away in stone prisons for their whole lives is just fine, but a noble being rude to his servant deserves an arrow to the face. Nice priorities she's got there. Clearly, hers is the objective view.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Another issue I have with Sera is a more meta and admittedly petty one but I hate how Bioware decided that she of all people is one of the two options for the Inquisitor to marry, when there were other LIs who objectively deserved it more.  

[KaiserShep]

1) That "nob" is indeed a jerk, but we never actually see any of the commoners he's supposedly misplaced. We see him killing a member of Red Jenny after they messed with him, but... yeah, he retaliated after they messed with him. Not that I think this guy is good news, but from a storytelling perspective it's another bad case of "Tell, don't show." We're told this guy hurts his subjects, but we're not shown him doing this.

 

We know Sera hates nobles and cares about common folk, but she's only ever shown screwing with and killing nobles, but never actually interacting with, showing kindness toward, or helping commoners with faces. Given her lack of any interaction with the "common folk" she claims to care about so much (especially here, where it would have been most helpful), her desire to screw with nobles can easily come across as Sera just hating nobles rather than wanting to help commoners. (Her own in-game character description is "robs from the rich, keeps it.")

 

2) The war table mission is just another case of "tell, don't show." 

 

3) Who the **** is Sera to decide who is deserving of what and why? It's just another case of her appointing herself Judge, Jury, and Executioner against people she barely knows based on her own personal criteria of what's acceptable and what's not. (Note: To her, sticking mages in towers just for being mages is fine. A noble being rude to their servants is deserving of a pie or an arrow to the face.)

 

4 and 5) Again, Sera may tell you why, but since we never really see anything to verify Sera's claims, and she herself is shown to have a very... biased view of the world, to say the least, she doesn't come across as the most reliable narrator.

 

 

1. Technically, the guy he killed wasn't a Jenny. He was someone who complained that he was using his power to screw over refugees all for some land grabbing. 

 

2. I suppose that this is a fair criticism of the war table, but just the same, this is more a knock against the war table mechanic than against Sera's character, since it does give us the necessary details about Pel Harmond. 

 

3. Well if we're talking about Harmond, it's not unreasonable to see why some might think he's deserving of death. Her initial response to his shenanigans was simply to have the Inquisition interrupt the nobles' petty land grab so that the refugees can get some relief. It wasn't until he unnecessarily started executing people that it went south. 

 

To your note, her strongest response regarding mages does have to do with the deal they made with Tevinter. You wouldn't be able to criticize Sera here but give Cassandra, Vivienne and Iron Bull a pass. As for pies to the face…I guess that sucks for the noble, but that's fairly benign. Depending on the Inquisitor's choices, she kills two nobles at most, and one of them was a hostile, so he can hardly count. I guess we can assume that she's killed others in the past, but we can barely even guess at the circumstances, so there's no point speculating on that. 

 

4/5. Unreliable narrator, perhaps, but among a group that has more than one that has been proven to be an outright liar, she'd hardly be the worst offender. 

 

 

Another issue I have with Sera is a more meta one but I hate how Bioware decided that she of all people is one of the two options for the Inquisitor to marry, when there were other LIs who objectively deserved it more. 

 

Come on. This is based on your own bias for characters of your preference, not an objective viewpoint. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Come on. This is based on your own bias for characters of your preference, not an objective viewpoint. 

Yes and no. There are characters where it objectively fit better, both in the romance and in the lore. 

 

And even if it is based on subjectivity and/or bias, why does that not make it a valid thing to hate about the character? 

[KaiserShep]

According to her, it's okay to trample on the rights and freedom of mages because it's "for the greater good," but she'll never tolerate hurting common folk under any circumstances even if one claimed it was for the greater good. She's a hypocrite, pure and simple. Locking people away in stone prisons for their whole lives is just fine, but a noble being rude to his servant deserves an arrow to the face. Nice priorities she's got there. Clearly, hers is the objective view.

 

 

Even if one is an advocate of mage freedom, could this really be considered to be equal as to establish hypocrisy? Under what circumstances could hurting common folk be considered as a "greater good"? Peasants don't have the innate ability to set an entire village aflame or become an abomination. Fear of mages and the want for them to be detained, even if disagreeable, is at least understandable, but when nobles are hurting common folk, it's generally for no greater good than their own personal benefit. 

[KaiserShep]

Yes and no. There are characters where it objectively fit better, both in the romance and in the lore. 

 

And even if it is based on subjectivity and/or bias, why does that not make it a valid thing to hate about the character? 

 

Whether or not it fits a certain character more is still ultimately a personal opinion. I said nothing of your reason to dislike a character being invalid, only that it's strictly subjective.