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Game lacking in tragedy, loss and opposition? Victory felt empty.


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#51
Guest_Vultrae_*

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I am really happy to not be railroaded again in the pit od sadness and "everythinh s***s" that was ME3. Now, if only there is a DLC/expansion like Witch Hunt for the romance with Solas, it will be perfect.  ^_^

 

That DLC idea is awesome! Could take place in a new area that we haven't accessed yet, would be perfect.



#52
Quaddis

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eh, I remember people saying that about the ME2 mission being ''too easy'', and then look what happened with ME3! I don't think people are as down with grimdarkness and everyone dying as much as they say they are...

 

Much more people had problem with ME3 ending being red, green, blue then grimdark, there was nothing grimdark about ME3, it was lazy and lore breaking.
But i guess if you say 1,000 times that people with brain want ponies and rainbows i guess it tries to become truth.


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#53
loungeshep

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So...what the OP wants is the ME 3 ending.   The same ending everyone exploded over 2 years ago.   That same exact ending that people still complain about.

 

 

And that's what the OP is basically wanting.

 

 

kay. Gamers are wierd.



#54
Ennai and 54 others

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What would have been better is if Corypheus had obliterated your forces at the arbor wilds.Then the final battle,no matter how short,would have been worthwhile.

There would have been that hopeless moment when you realize Corypheus can't die.(No singing this time)

Then the voices from the well give you that spark of hope (elves to the rescue again!)


You must work for your victory.I want my hero to be bruised and battered after the fight of their life(as well as the villain). And I want a ****** scar,maybe a lost eye.
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#55
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What would have been better is if Corypheus had obliterated your forces at the arbor wilds.Then the final battle,no matter how short,would have been worthwhile.

There would have been that hopeless moment when you realize Corypheus can't die.(No singing this time)

Then the voices from the well give you that spark of hope (elves to the rescue again!)


You must work for your victory.I want my hero to be bruised and battered after the fight of their life(as well as the villain). And I want a ****** scar,maybe a lost eye.

 

Lol idk about losing an eye but I know what you mean, the victory felt like it required no effort once What Pride Had Wrought was completed. Cory was just a loose end that needed to be taken care of but they could've done much better and made you work for the ending. 


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#56
Qutayba

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There are lots of ways to inject jeopardy into the story - it doesn't have to be dripping with tragedy like DA2 or ME3.  But I agree with the OP overall, even though I think the game is marvelous in general.  The end of the world because of the hole in the sky loses its power to terrify after Act 1.  The fact that there's a small rift with a couple demons down at the 7-11 isn't as scary as "the sky is about to eat your family."  The story about Morrigan's son or even Blackwell's predicament achieved this better than the main plot.  It's fine that it's a happy ending.  But an ending is happier when the adversity overcome is more daunting than Cory's plot was.  If you think about it, the whole story begins with the Inquisitor foiling his plans, and the good guys remain one-step ahead of the bad guys most of the way through.  Haven is the only failure (and even that was retaliation for the Inquisition's prior success in closing the breach).  BioWare knows how to do it - but can they do it without gut -wrenching despair and reanimated/decapitated parents?



#57
Kirikou

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What would have been better is if Corypheus had obliterated your forces at the arbor wilds.Then the final battle,no matter how short,would have been worthwhile.

There would have been that hopeless moment when you realize Corypheus can't die.(No singing this time)

Then the voices from the well give you that spark of hope (elves to the rescue again!)


You must work for your victory.I want my hero to be bruised and battered after the fight of their life(as well as the villain). And I want a ****** scar,maybe a lost eye.

Lol nope! Corypheus is not all powerful, he has many faults that lead to his downfall and the Inquisition IS competent. We've lost enough, we rose from the ashes and were ever stronger for it and curb stomped Cory every step of the way since we had advanced warning (Mage Side). I'm happy about how it ended, there was enough tragedies and loss in DA 2 thank you very much.



#58
phaonica

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I do agree that I ultimately prefer a happy ending, but I also like it when it feels like it was an emotional rollercoaster to get there. There was almost none of that in DAI. Almost everything you do succeeds with seemingly little effort.


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#59
Ennai and 54 others

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So...what the OP wants is the ME 3 ending. The same ending everyone exploded over 2 years ago. That same exact ending that people still complain about.


And that's what the OP is basically wanting.


kay. Gamers are wierd.


No
ME3s ending was bad because it was riddled with plot holes.It was also pretentious and stupid.
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#60
Ennai and 54 others

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Lol nope! Corypheus is not all powerful, he has many faults that lead to his downfall and the Inquisition IS competent. We've lost enough, we rose from the ashes and were ever stronger for it and curb stomped Cory every step of the way since we had advanced warning (Mage Side). I'm happy about how it ended, there was enough tragedies and loss in DA 2 thank you very much.


Apparently cullen says that most of our people survived haven.Also we got skyhold not long after.After sky hold it's all sunshine and daisies,we defeat the grey wardens and banish the demons,we restore order in orlais and destroy corypheus's army at the arbor wilds.

Usually in a story where the hero gains a string of successful victories like that we need their asses handed to them at some point to remind us that **** is real. This never happened.

#61
KaiserShep

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I'm just glad we don't have some kind of awkward failure plot point a la Kai motherfrakkin' Leng.

 

This lack of tragedy is only really true if Stroud is the Warden, because, honestly, who gives a spit about that guy? For those who actually like Hawke as much as I do and had Alistair or Loghain, well that might be a different story.


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#62
Alexius

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So... ME3's ending, then? Sans the terrible plotholes and Starchild?

 

Let's remember for a moment that ME3 had a different context and, we all knew, it was the ending of Shepard's journey.

Devs have said over and over again that DA is not the story of a single character, it's the story of Thedas. So that means a different perspective when considering what's tragedy and what is not.

 

I agree that victory felt like a given, after certain point. But to kill people off to make the ending more powerful is a cheap resource.

The focus this time is not on sacrifice and its implied tragedy, but on leadership. And I have no complaints on that, they pulled it off nicely.


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#63
Bladenite1481

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So... ME3's ending, then? Sans the terrible plotholes and Starchild?

 

Let's remember for a moment that ME3 had a different context and, we all knew, it was the ending of Shepard's journey.

Devs have said over and over again that DA is not the story of a single character, it's the story of Thedas. So that means a different perspective when considering what's tragedy and what is not.

 

I agree that victory felt like a given, after certain point. But to kill people off to make the ending more powerful is a cheap resource.

The focus this time is not on sacrifice and its implied tragedy, but on leadership. And I have no complaints on that, they pulled it off nicely.

I just never felt like a Leader. I felt like a glowing green lamp everybody needed to look up to. Nothing about you mattered, not really. It didn't matter what you believed, wanted, hated or loved. Only the scar mattered and what other people needed to believe mattered. The Inquisition lead themselves, they just needed you for a placebo. 


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#64
untuvainen

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Personally prefered the fight at haven to the last fight.


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#65
Bladenite1481

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Haven was pretty cool, must admit. And Like ive said before..that was suspenseful and interesting. After that though, I never felt Cory had a chance. It was like taking the slow lane to the finish line even though I knew I was going to win. 


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#66
Rawgrim

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I haven't finished the game yet, but is seems to me, so far, that I can do absolutely no wrong in this game. Impossible to get a setback or any negative effect.


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#67
Bladenite1481

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I haven't finished the game yet, but is seems to me, so far, that I can do absolutely no wrong in this game. Impossible to get a setback or any negative effect.

You know..maybe that is what it is. The game wants us to believe that its a war, but honestly after Haven there is no war, its just a slaughter. Cory never pushes back, at all. At least in DAO the Darkspawn force you to fight in familiar places in order to help people or whatever..so you feel like you are being pushed into a corner. In DAI, you just keep moving forward with no opposition at all. 


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#68
stonerbishop

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As iron bull says,
So all we have to do is kill his dragon? That's easy. We're good at killing ****.

Yes, yes we are

#69
Rawgrim

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You know..maybe that is what it is. The game wants us to believe that its a war, but honestly after Haven there is no war, its just a slaughter. Cory never pushes back, at all. At least in DAO the Darkspawn force you to fight in familiar places in order to help people or whatever..so you feel like you are being pushed into a corner. In DAI, you just keep moving forward with no opposition at all. 

 

Yeah. Nodoby gets angry with me. Nobody threathens me, nothing. I am basically doing what I want all the time. It is almost like I am just killing an enemy that doesn't fight back at all.


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#70
Jackal19851111

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Aye...

 

IMO ME3 was a good game up until the last few minutes, the last battle tension was there, you start the mission under HEAVY fire being shot as you jump out of the shuttle, the enemies were challenging as you struggle to hold the line against a swarm of banshees.

 

In DA:I, you enter battle in your PJs, casually confronting Corypheus all the while you have the mentality of "well, sure beats me having to look for you", and he's dead so quickly that when Leliana calls him the "ultimate villian" in the ending, the first thing that popped in my mind was "ultimate dumba--" But anyway I enjoyed the ending myself (I just found the climax lacking). The post-fight scene at Skyhold and the epilogue was a great indicator that Bioware learnt its lesson in the ending, they just failed at the climax.



#71
luism

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This game beats you down at the beginning and then rewards you for it at the end. I don't think that's a bad thing.

#72
Rawgrim

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As a famous author once said "The strength of the protagonist is measured by the threat of the antagonist". A pretty good line, really. In this game, though, the antagonist is very weak. He lets the protagonist go on about his business, and doesn't try to hinder or oppose him at all. There are no reactions or counter strikes from Cory, when we start killing his allies or mess up his plans.


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#73
Sir DeLoria

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People are way too extreme here. It's not like there's only the options of a clichéd Disney ending or a grimdark melancholic ending, there's a ton of middle field options.

On topic: I agree with the OP, because there was almost no pressure or difficult choices (except for maybe Hawke vs Warden), two aspects that very much define BW games. There's almost never any sense of danger to your companions or faction.

ME3 wasn't exactly bad because it was too dark, it was bad because the ending choice was utterly pointless and no one cared about that stupid space kid.
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#74
sylvanaerie

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It's not exactly a cut and paste, you're being ridiculous. I'll say it again, how it's executed is very important. But ok let's say God descends from heaven and writes in stone that what I wanted for a finale is a total cut and paste of the last two games.

 

 

Ok...*shrugs* so what? It's a proven formula that works. You'd basically be combining the most well received parts of finales in past Bioware games. The tactical decision making and prep work from the Suicide Mission, the grand epic battle type of sequence from Battle of Denerim, and the touching moments with your companions from ME3 and DA2. How is this a bad thing? 

 

Not saying it's a 'bad' thing per se to want it.  Just saying I found it refreshing they went with a different formula this time, especially considering the long load times.  

 

And you get 'final convos' with your companions, it's just done prior to going to the war-room to trigger the final fight, and instead of them all lined up like a Starbucks service line, you go to where they hang out in the keep and chat with them.  Those conversations felt far more organic and natural to me than stopping what I'm doing to chat them up in the middle of a huge battle.  Just because it was done that way in their other games, they shouldn't just stick with it 'because it works'.  Following that line of reasoning, if people had only stuck with stone tools because 'they work'--and those knives were sharper than scalpels--we never would have advanced out of the stone age.

 

Could they have done more implementing Corypheus in the overall story?  I think so, a lot of it I felt was like other posters have stated, that it seemed after Haven, there was sort of a let down in the story, though I loved the overall game itself and Skyhold.  But the final fight, I was okay with how it played out.  I didn't need more.

 

I'm sorry if you (and others) did.



#75
Ananka

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Er....haven't you played the game? Corypheus *does* need to remove the anchor from the Inquisitor. That's why he gets so annoyed by your having "stolen" it. He can't proceed with his plans before you're either killed or the anchor is removed. He's going to the Arbor Wilds for the knowledge how to circumvent the problem.

It is already personal. Any more would feel artificial.

 

If there's another way, he obviously doesn't *need* to remove it. He tries, fails, and goes "oh well, that was too hard, but that's ok, I'll just have to try some other way to get into the Fade". He would have liked the anchor because it would have made things easier for him, but if he can't have it, no biggie. It's not personal at all. After Haven he doesn't give a **** about you until you show up at the well.