What about leaving someone in the fade and the chargers?
All these complainy threads I wish there was a filter to hide them
You can. If the title of the threads looks "complainy" like this one does. Don't click it, don't read it, and don't reply to it.
To put it simply,yes.The best tragedies are often the ones that happen no matter how much you try to stop it,having them hamfisted in the story where you are just a passive member going along with the flow is terrible in my opinion.I'd rather have a character dieor fail because I screwed up in some way than to have them be forced just because.The former is more impactful.
Fair enough. You seem to be open to tragedies that you cannot stop, so long as you were given the option to try. For what it's worth, I agree with you.
Now that I think of it. Standing up to a strong opponent, and saving the world, is pretty much what most rpgs are about. This games has all the elements of this, for sure. But the thing is...I like overcoming the odds, and end up being a badass hero. DA:I does not have this at all. The villain trashes Haven, sure. But that is mostly his introduction. After that he does nothing. He could have destroyed a town or two, at least. If only to remind us he was out there. I don't feel heroic at all in this game. I am fighting someone who doesn't fight back. That is not being a hero. That is being a bully.
I don't know how it plays out if you side with the Templars near the beginning of the game, but if you side with the Mages, you pretty much get insight into his every move. When my advisors pointed that out, I thought "Crap, they're right. Now we know exactly what we need to do to try to stop him. How lame."
I agree.
Bioware does tragic moments really well so it sucks that this game is lacking. The game is no fun when you feel like everyone is safe and there is no sense of danger or urgency.
I hate when games try to show war or dangerous situations and yet your character and everyone close to them lives. It feels so shallow.
I hope they do better with this in future games.
Guest_starlitegirl_*
Victory did seem to be lacking that feeling of victory. It didn't feel epic or even like it was over because it was kind of empty. Kind of like 'after all that this hovering idiot and his pet dragon are it?' Not that they were easy. There was some challenge there but they and the ending was underwhelming.
What about leaving someone in the fade and the chargers?
I should have been able to leave someone else in the Fade, quite honestly. There were at least 3 other people in my group completely capable of distracting the Nightmare long enough for us to escape. And who you pick doesn't affect anything about the rest of the game, so it doesn't matter how you pick. Someone can choose to kill off Hawke entirely because they didn't like DA2 and it does not affect how the game plays out at all. It doesn't matter.
And the Chargers decision (if I'm thinking of the right one) doesn't affect the rest of the game either. Accepting or rejecting the Qunari as allies has no impact on the way the overall conflict plays out, there is no good reason to sacrifice Iron Bull's friends, because having the Qunari around or not doesn't matter.
And the politics was similarly disappointing. I read everything and talked to everyone I could in WEWH, but the main feeling I was left with was "I wonder if I didn't open the right stone halla doors, because I feel like I missed lots of plot, yet everyone is just going along with me anyway." It was kind of like that for every decision. It seemed rare the inquisitor was ever even questioned particularly forcefully.
The politics in the Orlesian ball was super disappointing. I was running around, taking screenshots of clues, trying to figure stuff out, worried that I'd missed stuff only to have one of the "suspects" reveal themselves to me, attack me, and me not being required to figure out anything for myself. And I'm thinking, maybe I don't see the whole story and I've screwed something up. But the game gave me no indication that what I had done would have any negative consequences, so I'm like.... okay, game, whatever you say.
A sentence that stuck to my mind ever since I heard it (but can't recall where), which applies to this subject:
"To vanquish without adversity is to triumph without glory."
And there's really not much adversity in Inquisition, that's true. We do lose either Stroud or Hawke, by choice, technically it is a significant loss. We do also get our arses kicked at Haven which I thought was very neat, because at that point Corypheus suddenly becomes "a real, tangible, serious threat". But after Haven... and until the Fade level there's essentially no "personal"-level losses. Once you reach the end of the Fade level you get to choose between Hawke or Stroud (but one of them does die nonetheless). And... after the Fade level is done it's... yeah, it's like Cory can't do anything, nothing happens. I do agree with that. Still I enjoy the game anyway. The victory at the end does feel almost empty, a bit of a shame, but I still enjoyed the whole thing overall.
Seriously though, I think that the whole BioWare fanbase has been spoiled by the magnificence that was ME2's Suicide Run. Since then it's like people expect it in every one of their game. The thing is that one mission in ME2 really was unique to that game, and only ME2's team specifically seemed to have thought about it at that time. It's not like it's a big rule stickied to big posters all over their office now "BioWare games = choices AND tragedy for a more glorifying ending.", akin to a reminder to their employees. It's unfortunate though, because yeah I admit I'd have liked to get a Suicide Run-style mission in Inquisition (and in ME3, too... *cough*). I think that Skyhold could have had that potential. The last battle was a victory but... it was just the final victory. Prior to that we also had dozens of other victories. Near the end of the game I remember talking to Bull, he said something like "Don't worry boss, just one last fight, we'll kick that guy's ass". Man he wasn't wrong, I feel almost bad for Cory... almost.
I don't know how it plays out if you side with the Templars near the beginning of the game, but if you side with the Mages, you pretty much get insight into his every move. When my advisors pointed that out, I thought "Crap, they're right. Now we know exactly what we need to do to try to stop him. How lame."
If you side with the templars, you get a glimpse into how the Inquisition can be abused in the future
I was underwhelmed by the ending also but I was happy it was not as bad as me3 but I WISH it had a DA:O nostalgic moment to it.
Come on this was suposed to be the biggest threat to thedas ever, and Alistair never showed up to the final battle nor did any of the da2 chracters I was expecting to see all the chracters back for one last push but nah
I think the problem is that, by allowing companions to die, Bioware drastically reduces the impact they can have on future games. They just can't afford to let world states in which Companion X lives be drastically different from world states in which that companion dies. If they make sure that the companion is definitely alive, though, they can have some strong future narrative that involves the companion. (And people would hate it if they forced a companion death on us with no way to stop it, so it's either definite survival or possible survival.)
I guess what I meant was that they don't take enough risks with their companions. As in, there were no absolutely dire situations concerning your companions. I suppose the exception to this would be Blackwall because of his background. But, I'm referring to scenes where the companion characters might die or are at least threatened. By all means, make it so the companion doesn't die is an assured thing, but give the impression during the moment that he/she will. It would heighten tension, even if it would be for the first playthrough only.
And the world states don't need to be drastically different. It sure wasn't in Inquisition for some characters that were from DA:O and DA2; some were only referenced in war table missions and others not at all, even though they were still alive in the imported world state. If the companion isn't going to be essential the next time around, then have an event in the game where the character can live or die right in front of you, depending on your choices.
I guess that might be planning too far ahead or squandering potential resources for later games, but I wouldn't mind the boldness. In truth, I'm tired of Bioware saying our decisions and the consequences involving our companions will be weighty when they never really are.
Although there was less impact in this regard in Inquisition, don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed the game and loved the companions. I suppose I just like drama and tension too much. 
I was underwhelmed by the ending also but I was happy it was not as bad as me3 but I WISH it had a DA:O nostalgic moment to it.
Come on this was suposed to be the biggest threat to thedas ever, and Alistair never showed up to the final battle nor did any of the da2 chracters I was expecting to see all the chracters back for one last push but nah
This is Dragon Age INQUISITION, not Dragon Age feat. Origins and 2 characters who clearly have other things to do or are miles away from being able to help the inquisitor.
Victory did seem to be lacking that feeling of victory. It didn't feel epic or even like it was over because it was kind of empty. Kind of like 'after all that this hovering idiot and his pet dragon are it?' Not that they were easy. There was some challenge there but they and the ending was underwhelming.
You know...thinking about, maybe it's suppose to feel like that. Perhaps that was what Bioware was intending, because there are clearly bigger things in play than a corrupted darkspawn idiot aspiring to godhood. He was being used in and for the grander picture of things, by the real "master" behind the scenes. LOL, maybe the game is supposed to make you feel like things are all good, the Inquisitor was a badass, the Inquisition is still kicking, ect. And then BOOM...the big fish will emerge and crush all our idealistic little dreams (whether in an expansion, DLC, or in the next game).
I can picture Bioware trolling like that. 
Anyway, Inquisition turned out to feel like a DA2 in hindsight. It's a setup for something else.
Guest_starlitegirl_*
The politics in the Orlesian ball was super disappointing. I was running around, taking screenshots of clues, trying to figure stuff out, worried that I'd missed stuff only to have one of the "suspects" reveal themselves to me, attack me, and me not being required to figure out anything for myself. And I'm thinking, maybe I don't see the whole story and I've screwed something up. But the game gave me no indication that what I had done would have any negative consequences, so I'm like.... okay, game, whatever you say.
I had a 4 for approval and got to kick florianne's butt, send her corpse around in a box as a lesson, and out briala and the other guy who I can't remember for treason I think. The queen lived and all was well and I didn't have to do much of anything really but stumble into a few rooms. I did get some information but not enough to count for anything. Frankly, I think that outcome was preferred for my inquisitor who loathed the idea of playing this game. That's why she has a spymaster and diplomat. She's more direct like Cullen and prefers that approach for herself. The others can play the game and she assigns them to do so when appropriate, but she will not do it herself.
Guest_starlitegirl_*
You know...thinking about, maybe it's suppose to feel like that. Perhaps that was what Bioware was intending, because there are clearly bigger things in play than a corrupted darkspawn idiot aspiring to godhood. He was being used in and for the grander picture of things, by the real "master" behind the scenes. LOL, maybe the game is supposed to make you feel like things are all good, the Inquisitor was a badass, the Inquisition is still kicking, ect. And then BOOM...the big fish will emerge and crush all our idealistic little dreams (whether in an expansion, DLC, or in the next game).
I can picture Bioware trolling like that.
Anyway, Inquisition turned out to feel like a DA2 in hindsight. It's a setup for something else.
Maybe but then that just leaves you with a game that doesn't feel fulfilling in the end. I almost prefer the galactic nightmare of ME3's ending because it did have some impact though it felt horribly negative. This? Totally uninspiring. I'm replaying (which I didn't even think I would but I guess I'm just a sucker for RPGs and it does have its merits) but I don't really care about the game story. I care about my character and companions that I've grown fond of. That's what keeps me in it. The actual story is kind of on hold right now. I might hit max level before I finish it not because I'm grinding or trying to reach it, but because the quest line is kind of meh and I'd rather do other stuff like hit all the stuff I missed the first time or grind to get dorian all sorts of powers because it's so fun to watch what he does when he has all these options. Really, it's a blast.
If you side with the templars, you get a glimpse into how the Inquisition can be abused in the future
Spoilerand used conquer Thedas with an army of fanatical followers and demons, torturing and executing your former allies, bassically turning Thedas into Mordor.
So how do you find out about Corypheus' plans
Guest_starlitegirl_*
If you side with the templars, you get a glimpse into how the Inquisition can be abused in the future
Spoilerand used conquer Thedas with an army of fanatical followers and demons, torturing and executing your former allies, bassically turning Thedas into Mordor.
wait, what? How does that even happen?
So how do you find out about Corypheus' plans
Spoileron the Templar path?
Envy tells you. Via the battle in the center of the mind sequence (which honestly is so much better done than the mage quest).
Envy tells you. Via the battle in the center of the mind sequence (which honestly is so much better done than the mage quest).
You find out from Envy. Okay. Thank you 
I rather liked the way it was done in the mage quest, but I have every intention of doing the templar quest next, so I guess I'll find out.
wait, what? How does that even happen?
Because:
I agree. There was really no personal need for my Inquisitor to go after him, I was pretty much just trying to stop him because nobody else would, or could (my inquisitor actually said something very similar). I feel that overall the game was a bit lacking in story missions. Granted, yes we have plenty of side stories and quests going on which is nice, I feel that time and effort could have been better spent better developing Corypheus and his connection to the inquisitor in general. In all honesty, he felt like a minor character, the one who might take the place of Samson.
On that topic, Samson was just a joke. Saw him a couple of times... and he had Fenris' voice which is beside the point but made me have a bit of a wtf moment.
I felt more angry vs. a minor villain in DA:O playing as a female city elf, when that pompous ass Lord Vaughan came and ruined my life. Even though that was just the origin story and was relatively a short-lived vendetta.
Kefka was a better villain than Sephiroth imo, Corypheus should have became a God instead of having us thwart him constantly. Kefka was such an evil bastard and was a fantastic villain who seriously became a God and reshaped the world! That is exactly what Corypheus wanted to do but he wasn't allowed to be given that much power for some reason, maybe the writers didn't know how to end him if he became a God.
I agree that after Haven, Cory never feels like a threat. I never felt like anyone was in real danger, or that there was any pressure to get something done. I don't mind the happy ending, in fact I prefer them, but in this case it really didn't feel like it was ever in doubt.
There's no point after Haven where Cory decides we've caused him enough trouble and actually hits back. It feels like our very first victory, claiming either the Mages or the Templars, actually won the war, and we just spend time playing World Janitor after that.
It doesn't help that if you were paying any attention at all to dialog, much less out of game marketing, you knew Haven was expendable. So Cory hitting you there feels less like "Oh crap, now we're homeless and in trouble" and more like "Finally we're going to get our real base/castle!"
I think part of it was because the Crestwood scenario that we saw in the advertising leadup, where Red Templars laid were attacking both the village and the Keep, never occurred.
Had that occurred, I think your concerns would have been answered. Corypheus would have been launching a major attack at an Inquisition stronghold and interests, the possibility for failing one or the other would have been real, and the implicit Consequences for companions (like, say, Varric) for your choice would have allowed subsequent drama and tensions within the Inquisition in response to the threat.
I'm not sure how the possible implication of being able to save both would have turned out- would it have been so easy that the delimma was a non-delimma because you could have had your cake and eat it to? Would you suffer any consequences for trying to save both? Could you actually save both, or would you find that even without reinforcements that the target you didn't go save personally would fall?
A partial victory/partial loss (that is, either the keep OR the village is lost, but not both) would have helped the most with the narrative angle you refer to. Assuming it was post-Haven, it would have been another effort of Corypheus with significant effects, re-establishing the villain's credibility of being a legitimate threat to the Inquisition, while the Inquisition's ability to protect one or the other would have reflected the Inquisition's rising power and ability to do better against the Red Templars/Venatori than they could at Haven.
A sentence that stuck to my mind ever since I heard it (but can't recall where), which applies to this subject:
"To vanquish without adversity is to triumph without glory."
And there's really not much adversity in Inquisition, that's true. We do lose either Stroud or Hawke, by choice, technically it is a significant loss. We do also get our arses kicked at Haven which I thought was very neat, because at that point Corypheus suddenly becomes "a real, tangible, serious threat". But after Haven... and until the Fade level there's essentially no "personal"-level losses. Once you reach the end of the Fade level you get to choose between Hawke or Stroud (but one of them does die nonetheless). And... after the Fade level is done it's... yeah, it's like Cory can't do anything, nothing happens. I do agree with that. Still I enjoy the game anyway. The victory at the end does feel almost empty, a bit of a shame, but I still enjoyed the whole thing overall.
Seriously though, I think that the whole BioWare fanbase has been spoiled by the magnificence that was ME2's Suicide Run. Since then it's like people expect it in every one of their game. The thing is that one mission in ME2 really was unique to that game, and only ME2's team specifically seemed to have thought about it at that time. It's not like it's a big rule stickied to big posters all over their office now "BioWare games = choices AND tragedy for a more glorifying ending.", akin to a reminder to their employees. It's unfortunate though, because yeah I admit I'd have liked to get a Suicide Run-style mission in Inquisition (and in ME3, too... *cough*). I think that Skyhold could have had that potential. The last battle was a victory but... it was just the final victory. Prior to that we also had dozens of other victories. Near the end of the game I remember talking to Bull, he said something like "Don't worry boss, just one last fight, we'll kick that guy's ass". Man he wasn't wrong, I feel almost bad for Cory... almost.
While I agree that many of us were likely spoiled by ME2's Suicide Run, I don't think it's that people expect it in every game. It seems like it's more that people want the victory to feel earned, sort of like the quote you referenced. Something to feel like Corypheus is pushing back against your efforts Post-Haven instead of just sitting idle and going "Oh crud, I've been foiled again". I think this could have possibly been accomplished by making the "main" questline in some of the regions a little meatier, perhaps turn them into something like the Mage/Templar recruitment quests but smaller in scale.
You know...thinking about, maybe it's suppose to feel like that. Perhaps that was what Bioware was intending, because there are clearly bigger things in play than a corrupted darkspawn idiot aspiring to godhood. He was being used in and for the grander picture of things, by the real "master" behind the scenes. LOL, maybe the game is supposed to make you feel like things are all good, the Inquisitor was a badass, the Inquisition is still kicking, ect. And then BOOM...the big fish will emerge and crush all our idealistic little dreams (whether in an expansion, DLC, or in the next game).
I can picture Bioware trolling like that.
Anyway, Inquisition turned out to feel like a DA2 in hindsight. It's a setup for something else.
I would be incredible happy if Bioware did that. Primarily because I was fully expecting a "Oh, you thought that was the end? Well, surprise!" moment but it was not to be.
I want a clever villain.One that lies to you and spies on you and traps you and maybe even convinces your friends to take his/her side.
I felt slightly more threatened by mother Petrice than I was by Corypheus.
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