Isn't that a matter of opinion?
Or are your opinions facts?
Sure it's opinion, everything here is... personally, I use my own experience as a "writer" of RPG adventures, and I know what did and did not work on my players for the better part of 20 years now. If BW would come to me for pointers, I'd give em to them, but that will not happen, so I discuss. YOu think DAI's story is perfect? Good for you...
Where did I say anything was perfect?
Perfect doesn't exist.
I think what Bioware really likes to do is make the people who play their games feel like heroes. At least, that's what I have seen over the course of their games.
You can't always please everyone. Oh well, some people will like what they do and others will not.
To play or not to play...is your choice.
Feeling like a hero is all well and good, but when a game has a villain that doesn't really fight back, I don't feel very heroic. Cory did trash Haven when he was introduced as the villain. After that he did nothing at all. He sat here and let me pick apart all of his plans one by one.
True, he didn't have the best plans or strategy.
Maybe that's why he and his buddies failed a thousand years ago. The Maker was steps ahead of him and his fellow magisters.
Hawke beat him.
Now, the Inquisitor beat him.
Maybe, Cory just isn't up to being as good or bad as he's like to be?
Maybe Cory is really just an upstart?
Feeling like a hero is all well and good, but when a game has a villain that doesn't really fight back, I don't feel very heroic. Cory did trash Haven when he was introduced as the villain. After that he did nothing at all. He sat here and let me pick apart all of his plans one by one.
Exactly, and when he did do something, we never saw it... remember the cuts to Loghain in Denerim we had in DAO? We regulary saw what was going on with the villian, and what his reactions to our actions looked like. Also, a hero without opposition/loss doesn't feel very heroic. Choosing the wrong agents for a mission? No problem, since there are no "wrong" agents for the job. Choosing to save one "thing" over the other? Wasn't possible, as soon as we set our sights on one goal, everything would turn out ok in the end... aside from companion approval, that is.
Kinda. You upgrade your castle and recruit agents but it amounts to nothing. You amass a huge following but unless they plan on having the Inquisitor as the PC in the next DA game, it's feels like a huge waste.
Kinda. You upgrade your castle and recruit agents but it amounts to nothing. You amass a huge following but unless they plan on having the Inquisitor as the PC in the next DA game, it's feels like a huge waste.
It's more or less the same mistake they made with the war assets in ME3... accumulating a numerical "power" resource does not make you feel very heroic, in the end. 
Dragons are not part of the story (they barely acknowledge that you kill freaking High dragons in the game !) and I was more excited about hunting et killing them than going after Cory and follow the plot of DA:I that is pretty generic...
The story arc of DA:I is not personal enough... nothing really drive the main char to go after Corypheus apart some cheesy "be a good boy and save the world or else...." else what ? nothing ever happens to your inquisition... no attacks on skyhold, no personal loss, no real choices that could drive the main char to go all out... the plot is generic and just here to serve the action driven gameplay.
We lose the divine, but who was she for us ? just the divine and the title that goes with. We don't know her like leliana and cassandra does, we don't have any attach to the character.
Power and Influence has near to 0 real utility in the game. Once you have unlocked everything, you can still accumulate power to no avail. Missing features ? probably ! Could have been good to have been able to spend some power point to unlock special choices in certain situation for example.
There's a lot more to say on the matter...
eh, I remember people saying that about the ME2 mission being ''too easy'', and then look what happened with ME3! I don't think people are as down with grimdarkness and everyone dying as much as they say they are...
I think it is more a case of two different groups of fans having very different ideas about what they like in an ending. Some prefer a more bittersweet tone and others get angry at even the mention of having the possibility of companions dying.
As for ME3, the ending wasn't poorly received even by those who usually clamour for a more bittersweet tone because it was poorly executed. I think Bioware got the tone for ME3 right, but erred when they decided to have the sense of loss come from failing to save galactic civilization rather than through deaths of companions in the end run.
With ME2 no one criticized the Suicide Mission for not being grimdark. I think the vast majority were satisifed with an ending where Shepard defeated the Collectors and walked away the big guddammed hero. Some (myself included) just thought the Suicide Mission would have been better if it lived up to its name, and there were a couple deaths on the team in getting to that big win. Sort of like ME1 with Virmire, though Virmire occurs prior to the end run.
How are you always 2 steps ahead of corypheus?
He buttfucks your entire base and you only survive because of a lucky trebuchet shot...and that's within the first act. He is one step ahead of YOU for both the mages and templar missions...having control of both of those armies before you even know what the **** is going on. When you get to the grey wardens he already has a minion who has totally warped their minds. At the ball he has already taken control of the duchess.... When you get to the harbor wilds he is already at the ruins before you..i mean are we playing the same game?
Foiling a villains plot is you know what happens in like...every story in history?
After Haven victory just seems inevitable. I mean, obviously it's a video game so chances are the villain will be defeated, but in-game it feels that way throughout. You have an obscene amount of forces to the point that the red templars and venatori seem like minor annoyances and the dialogue often reflects that. You have a huge fortress steeped in ancient magic. You're well aware of the assasination plot long before it happens. You've drank from the well before he even gets there. When you go to face him at the end he has basically no plan other than to throw a hissy fit.
Exactly, and when he did do something, we never saw it... remember the cuts to Loghain in Denerim we had in DAO? We regulary saw what was going on with the villian, and what his reactions to our actions looked like. Also, a hero without opposition/loss doesn't feel very heroic. Choosing the wrong agents for a mission? No problem, since there are no "wrong" agents for the job. Choosing to save one "thing" over the other? Wasn't possible, as soon as we set our sights on one goal, everything would turn out ok in the end... aside from companion approval, that is.
Good points. It is impossible to screw up in this game, on any level. The Inquisitor is covered in safety lines.
Having Cory burn down one of my Keeps, or kill an agent or two, would be nice. Just anything at all, really, to remind me he is actually a threat.
Let me say that after I finished ME3 I really didn't want to play through it again. It left me feeling depressed. Which ME1 and ME2 made me feel really good.
I can say that I can play Dragon Age Inquisition multiple times because it ends off on a good note. Plus more to come with the whole after the credits scene. Games shouldn't make you depress.
The game is great.
For me, it's deffinatlyy more about how a story is told... a sad/bittersweet story works if it is told properly, as does any other story, really. ME3's story was told sloppily and shallow, as is DAI's. ME2's worked much better, in that regard.
I loved the ending to the game and I'm glad it's not dark and filled with too much drama. I like games to be enjoyable and brighter then real life. There's more then enough drama in real life, so keep it to at or around this level as far as I'm concerned BioWare! Great job!!!
I loved the ending to the game and I'm glad it's not dark and filled with too much drama. I like games to be enjoyable and brighter then real life. There's more then enough drama in real life, so keep it to at or around this level as far as I'm concerned BioWare! Great job!!!
I think nobody is saying that the ending should be "grimdark"... having a story that is "positive" doesn't mean it has to be without drama.
Corypheus was a wannabe bad guy, that's all.
Out of the three games we've had two where the world was threatened. Sadly they could not make Corypheus live up to the sense of imminent danger and urgency that was caused by the Blight. And in a way it makes sense. The Blight was the Blight. It had no aim apart from destroying the world. Corypheus has no such desires. The poor guy only wants to ascend to Godhood, and is using very 'human' ways of subterfuge and deceit to reach his goals. The only 'armies' he commands is the Red Templars/ Mages and the Venetori.
In fact it is up for debate who actually gets more damaged at Haven, Cory or the Inquisition. Because the Inquisition actually comes into its own AFTER Haven and keeps growing, while poor Cory loses what appears to be a lot of his army to landslides. By the end pitting the Inquisition against Corypheus almost seems to be using a sledgehammer to crack and walnut....
They could have shown more of Samson and more of the damage Cory was doing to the world apart from the War Table. The only motivation I had to see them dead was the tragedy they had wrecked upon the Orlesian Grey Wardens.
Why does always the "hero" win? Why, at the end, there is always "lived happily ever after"?
I like those in Disney pictures - hero rides a dragon/horse, enters dramatically, kicks villains' collective arses, and save the day!
But why can't we get the darkest, incomprehensible, revolutionary ending at the end of a "matured" theme RPG? Why can't my warden or hawke or inquisitor gets trapped in a monstrous dimension (like Fade) or gets struck in time magic? Why can't my (read, hero's) mind get convoluted, corrupted and complete its journey to the "dark side" to be the vanguard/villain of the next game?
Speaking of which, why does Morigan merely stops by mentioning "what are the old Gods", and why didn't she pursue the discussion further??
After seeing the not-so-secret ending after the credits (featuring Solas and Flemeth), I felt very stupid. At the end of anything and everything that I have done so far, I realized that we were just a foot-note to the fact that we were pawns of a drama which started when 'Gods' screw things up!
Why does always the "hero" win? Why, at the end, there is always "lived happily ever after"?
I like those in Disney pictures - hero rides a dragon/horse, enters dramatically, kicks villains' collective arses, and save the day!
But why can't we get the darkest, incomprehensible, revolutionary ending at the end of a "matured" theme RPG? Why can't my warden or hawke or inquisitor gets trapped in a monstrous dimension (like Fade) or gets struck in time magic? Why can't my (read, hero's) mind get convoluted, corrupted and complete its journey to the "dark side" to be the vanguard/villain of the next game?
Speaking of which, why does Morigan merely stops by mentioning "what are the old Gods", and why didn't she pursue the discussion further??
After seeing the not-so-secret ending after the credits (featuring Solas and Flemeth), I felt very stupid. At the end of anything and everything that I have done so far, I realized that we were just a foot-note to the fact that we were pawns of a drama which started when 'Gods' screw things up!
Because these are create your character games where you immerse yourself in your characters position. Not saying it would make a horrible story, but it's not normally a good practice to have a super dark ending where your hero ends in a horrible situation when the consumer is actively pretending in their head that they are that character (to a degree). Movies will always have better stories than games with CC's because in movies the consumer never feels agency over a character, so the writers are never committed to giving that character the level of preferential treatment our characters get in DA games. It also has to do with branching choices massively complicating writing a good, fluid, and complete story.
I agree it would be a strong change (don't know if my reaction would be positive or negative if i just played a 100 hour game and my main character was thrown into a endless pit with all of his dreams dashed, but I'm certain it would evoke a strong one), but every Bioware game that I remember playing has made it nearly impossible to get a sad ending unless you tried, or missed something huge.
I agree it would be a strong change (don't know if my reaction would be positive or negative if i just played a 100 hour game and my main character was thrown into a endless pit with all of his dreams dashed, but I'm certain it would evoke a strong one), but every Bioware game that I remember playing has made it nearly impossible to get a sad ending unless you tried, or missed something huge.
You know, at certain point I think - Bioware tried to walk on that line with Mass Effect 3 endings. (I sincerely apologise for digging up old graves). The theory was astounding but the implementation was 'probably' poor. There are certain dialogs which still gives me hibby-jibbies, like "there is wisdom in harnessing the strength of your enemy". Contemplating a little - you won't feel that this can be spoken by any "lawful good" character (which usually has become the norm) or hero for that matter.
And since you mentioned about, "agency over a character", I personally don't feel that will be threatened if there are any endings which concludes in a much darker note. On the contrary, I feel it will rather emphasize it. My personal opinion. No need to agree.
And thanks for your input, Tsunami Chef!
Maybe, Cory just isn't up to being as good or bad as he's like to be?
Maybe Cory is really just an upstart?
He sure was merely a tool or instrument used by a dread-wolf, who sought for someone to unlock an artifact (the orb), because he was too weak to do so himself after his deep slumber. Did I sense a tiny bit of cosmicism here?
Tragedy leading to a happy, or at least victorious-still-feel-like-it-was-worth-it ending is always the best received by the masses. Would it feel better to have reached that final fight losing a bit more, just to make digging my knifes into cory's back a little sweeter? Yes. Completely yes. It'd add that extra high of reassurance of thinking 'This guy is evil. He killed -so and so- and will pay for it. I'll tear you apart atom by atom for it, you Nug poop eating demon herder.'
It was pretty clever to put the epic "defend the base" mission at the beginning instead of the end, but maybe it backs you into a corner where you can't do it again at the end--when the player should really be feeling the stakes. The Haven sequence was incredible, but in my opinion the rest of the main story failed to live up to it. Once I got Skyhold the rest of the game felt like a Skyrim-esque power-fantasy where I could do anything I wanted and it didn't cost me anything, which I've always found slightly patronizing. I don't play BioWare games to be told how awesome I am, I play them because I want to be told a good story. Maybe I've watched too many Joss Whedon shows, but a team of untouchable heroes just doesn't interest me.
The game's still a blast to play, and each individual quest and character is extremely well-written, but it doesn't quite add up to a satisfying story to me. It didn't need to be depressing or overwhelmingly tragic, it just needed to feel like a journey, and it didn't to me. It was just one satisfying and costly victory in Haven and then a steady stream of wins.
Let's see....
Haven
The choice between Warden and Hawke
Potential Romance Ramifications depending on LI (Blackwall, I'm looking at you)
The images seen in the future or in the fade depending on mages/templars
I'd say there's plenty of tragedy, just not "We're killing your mom" tragedy that DA2 had >.>
But then again, DA isn't like ME where sacrifice is the theme. DA is more upbeat and hopeful overall. It's a saga about heroes, and the people around them and their bonds (or lack thereof.) Heroic tales rarely have the same kind of tragedy as a story like Mass Effect.
Haven
The choice between Warden and Hawke
Potential Romance Ramifications depending on LI (Blackwall, I'm looking at you)
The images seen in the future or in the fade depending on mages/templars
Yea, but non of them haave real consequences:
- Haven: You can save some people during the attack only to find out they are later replaced by standins when you reach Skyhold anyhow, so no harm done either way.
- Warden or Hawk: Some lines of dialogue change and you maybe loose Varric.
- Romances: Again, some lines of dialogue change and you maybe loose a companion.
- Mages or Templars: You save one and never hear anything about the other again... heck, you even get Dorian, although you had no hand in his story.
They should add a "Realistic mode", where if you or your companion dies, that's it, they're dead. It could run in conjunction with any gameplay difficulty . . . even on casual, there would be that "omfg don't die on me" moment. Please make this happen.
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