362 réponses à ce sujet

[cato potato]

Awww maaaaaan. I've never played the first Mass Effect, this thread needs a spoiler warning.
 

[DaemionMoadrin]

I don't find it a leap to suppose that Sovereign requiring direct interface with the Citadel was necessary.  Vigil knows what the scientists from his team did to disrupt the station and hands him the data file.  It is unlikely that Sovereign had figured this out before the game starts, or even before the final act.  While it is interesting to speculate if he does indeed know the specific problem, it actually doesn't matter much to the plot as a whole.  Sovereign needs to dock to accomplish his mission.  The main reason to claim this is because it is supported by the plot and makes the narrative more logically consistent.

 

Nothing you wrote is supported by what's said in the game itself, except for the fact that it happened. That's not logical. You can't assume that because something happened, that it was the most efficient or best way to do things.

 

The Prothean scientists disrupted the signal between the Keepers and Sovereign, they didn't touch the station. If they had control of the station, then they wouldn't have starved there.

 

And really, if you think about it... it makes no sense for a single operative without backup to risk everything by going straight into enemy territory, without any information about the problem at hand. That's a really arrogant, overconfident brute force attempt... I might expect that from a stupid villain, but not from a superior AI. The least Sovereign should have done is trying to determine the problem -before- deciding to fix it personally.

If I go by Mass Effect lore, then all that was missing were a couple button pushers on the Citadel to activate the relay. Are you going to tell me that Saren and Benezia's loyal Asari commandos would be unable to do that?

 

Assuming that docking is necessary, there are still a lot more ways than force. For example, Saren could claim he found a prothean dreadnought and bring it to the Citadel to be studied. He arrives, docks and Sovereign would have at least partial access. Who would stop him? He can overrule any authority but the council itself. By the time someone noticed that something was wrong, there would have been hundreds, if not thousands indoctrinated. Win/win.

 

There is nothing logically consistent about many parts of Mass Effect, the story only works through suspension of disbelief. While this is true for any sci-fi story, ME fails a few common sense checks in my book.

 

I also have the feeling that you missed my point, but oh well...

[DaemionMoadrin]

Awww maaaaaan. I've never played the first Mass Effect, this thread needs a spoiler warning.
 

 

Hahaha.

 

Sorry but the game is too old to warrant a spoiler tag... and if you played ME2 and ME3, then you should know about most, if not all the things that happened in the first game. ^^

[TopTrog]

How do I find out the age of an object in space? Well, since it is most likely anorganic I can't use carbondating.

You can use the same principle, actually. There are a variety of nuclear decay dating techniques already in use today, of which Carbon-14 is just the most widely used one. Extending your micro-cratering idea to radio-isotope creation by cosmic rays, you should in priciple be able to get a rough estimate on how long a given piece of material has been exposed to its current environment (or a reasonable past extrapolation of it).

 

To protect against that, one would presumably still just need to redo a protective coating of different material than your base structure (similar to what Aedolon has suggested above). If you want to be real sure that nobody could put an estimated age on your structure, you might even want to construct everything without any radio-active trace elements inside (which might otherwise leave hints as on how long they have been in close proximity). All of this would probably be really tedious and stupendously annyoing to do, even for sentient machines. Which might fuel their disdain for those nosy little organics and thus foster a desire to just exterminate them. Suddenly, it all makes sense . 

[Deerber]

Awww maaaaaan. I've never played the first Mass Effect, this thread needs a spoiler warning.

Lol man, I feel sorry for you now. But seriously, get that damn game already!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Awww maaaaaan. I've never played the first Mass Effect, this thread needs a spoiler warning.
 

 

You must discover the joys of exploring planets with the Mako!

 

 

Don't listen to the haters, it was the greatest!

[akots1]

N7 and CP are pretty meaningless, for the most part.

+100. So is the score. I honestly think that score is meaningless. The only meaningful thing in this game is bad lag. Bad lag and glitches are not funny.

 

But my N7 is low, and so I can use it to play badly. Which I happily do in most cases.

[akots1]

As you said, it's personal opinion. I enjoyed ME1 more than the second, although there are certainly things that the second does better than the first. Actually, I feel that ME1 story made *much* more sense than ME2's. ...

 

ME1 had that sense of new beginning, of opening of something big. I wondered through the citadel for the first time for a few hours just looking around every nook and cranny. Also, it was possible to sneak on some mountaintop and snipe the enemies standing in the open from there on the planets. It was a sort of an open world in a sense.
 

[capn233]

Nothing you wrote is supported by what's said in the game itself, except for the fact that it happened. That's not logical. You can't assume that because something happened, that it was the most efficient or best way to do things.

 

1. The Prothean scientists disrupted the signal between the Keepers and Sovereign, they didn't touch the station. If they had control of the station, then they wouldn't have starved there.

 

2. And really, if you think about it... it makes no sense for a single operative without backup to risk everything by going straight into enemy territory, without any information about the problem at hand. That's a really arrogant, overconfident brute force attempt... I might expect that from a stupid villain, but not from a superior AI. The least Sovereign should have done is trying to determine the problem -before- deciding to fix it personally.

If I go by Mass Effect lore, then all that was missing were a couple button pushers on the Citadel to activate the relay. Are you going to tell me that Saren and Benezia's loyal Asari commandos would be unable to do that?

 

3. Assuming that docking is necessary, there are still a lot more ways than force. For example, Saren could claim he found a prothean dreadnought and bring it to the Citadel to be studied. He arrives, docks and Sovereign would have at least partial access. Who would stop him? He can overrule any authority but the council itself. By the time someone noticed that something was wrong, there would have been hundreds, if not thousands indoctrinated. Win/win.

 

4. There is nothing logically consistent about many parts of Mass Effect, the story only works through suspension of disbelief. While this is true for any sci-fi story, ME fails a few common sense checks in my book.

 

5. I also have the feeling that you missed my point, but oh well...

 

I didn't have time to write an essay about ME1 before lunch, but I guess I can spend some time on it now, at the risk of being trolled.

 

"You can't assume that because something happened, that it was the most efficient or best way to do things."  I am not sure what this means unless it just means you didn't like something about the story.  Not liking something about the story has no bearing on whether it makes sense.

 

As to points on the specifics of ME1's plot...

 

1. The Prothean scientists that remained from the Ilos mass relay project went to the Citadel and sabotaged the station.  This was practically spelled out for you in the game during the conversation with Vigil.  They did not take the Conduit to the Citadel in order to go sight seeing.  Vigil does not know what happened to the scientists.  He speculates that they may have starved, but he says specifically he does not know their exact fate.  Just that they accomplished their mission, or else the events of ME1 would not have even been possible.

 

Whether or not the Protheans had the expertise to order the station to make them food is largely irrelevant to the story.  It is part of a small mystery of what really happened to the scientists.  Perhaps they could eat food, but didn't see the point as they were not great enough to save their species.  Maybe they all killed themselves.

 

The main points that have relevance are that the Protheans came the closest to reverse engineering Reaper technology up until the time of ME1, having created the mini mass relay, and apparently learning about how the Citadel relay and Reaper signal worked.

 

2. A single operative never went straight into enemy territory, so I don't know why this is a problem.  We do not know exactly what information Sovereign had.  All that we do know is that he acquired the services of Saren and the heretic Geth and then still did not attempt any move against the Citadel until he found a back door.

 

ME lore doesn't say anything about a couple button pushers being able to activate the Citadel relay.  One of the few functions anybody can control at the Citadel is closing or opening the arms.  All mandatory functions are controlled by the keepers and it is a mystery how they do this.

 

Also as far as Sovereign's plan, it appears like it has a substantial amount of risk reduction built into it.  He does not recruit a single operative, he recruits the entirety of the heretic Geth.  He does not simply attack the Citadel, he finds a way to get a force of shock troops onto the Citadel in a surprise attack while a large fleet distracts the forces protecting the Citadel.  His forces can close the arms after Sovereign is within, which essentially gives Sovereign unlimited time diagnose and repair the sabotage.

 

His plan fails because Shepard somehow killed a zillion Geth on Ilos, then survived the trip through the conduit, and then killed a zillion Geth on the Citadel.  If it weren't for the hero, nobody would have been able to stop him.

 

3. Whether or not Sovereign could have taken the Citadel if the plan was for Saren to say "Hey guys, I found this advanced alien ship, let me park it right here" would be pure speculation.  And in reality why would it make more sense for the council, C-sec, or whomever to let some strange ship dock with the seat of galactic government?

 

Spectres do not have unlimited authority.

 

In any event assuming he could somehow just park it at the tower because "I'm a Spectre," that runs the risk of the Council, C-Sec, whoever of discovering that Sovereign is doing something to Citadel systems.  At that point, how would he stop the fleet from firing upon him?  As Vigil states, Reapers are strong but they are not invincible.  And if he were to fail (as it was stated in ME1), the Reapers would be trapped in dark space.  That seems like a much larger gamble than the Conduit plan.

 

As far as indoctrination, there is not a lot of information on it in ME1, but it seems to suggest that it isn't close to instantaneous.

 

4. The core conceit of ME, basically "mass effect," requires suspension of disbelief.  I disagree that most of the plot points require this.

 

Of the actual plot points, the one I find most peculiar is actually the sound file Tali finds, which seems to be a bit convenient and is also completely different in tone from the cutscene on Sovereign that we actually get to see after Eden Prime.

 

The other thing that is a little more central is the question of when Sovereign / Saren know what the Conduit actually is.  Obviously they know before Shepard, but the timing of it would be more interesting to know.

 

5. Maybe, but the goal is to lengthen this thread, is it not?

[smeckie]

I'll take your word on whatever you said.

[Loufi]

You must discover the joys of exploring planets with the Mako!

 

 

Don't listen to the haters, it was the greatest!

Agreed, cato your ME experience isn't complete if you haven't been stuck at least once in a too steep hill with the Mako  .

[Deerber]

Relevant:

 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Agreed, cato your ME experience isn't complete if you haven't been stuck at least once in a too steep hill with the Mako  .

 

Nothing made me laugh more than the first time I was staring at my turtled Mako, raging at my predicament, and accidentally pressed the jets... only to discover that jetting into the ground while on the Mako's back somehow righted it! 

[NuclearTech76]

Seriously. WTF is going on?

Some jackass brought physics into an Edong thread. 

 

You can't have physics in a Edong thread. WTF madness is this? 

[J. Peterman]

Some jackass brought physics into an Edong thread. 

 

You can't have physics in a Edong thread. WTF madness is this? 

 

Smh. I'm seeing glimpses of Saren and the Citadel in extremely long posts I obviously didn't bother to read, and trying to figure out what this has to do with GI + Claymore victories.

[cato potato]

Smh. I'm seeing glimpses of Saren and the Citadel in extremely long posts I obviously didn't bother to read, and trying to figure out what this has to do with GI + Claymore victories.

 

So is the Arcane Warrior DA:I's answer to the TGI or GI?

[RustyBuckets02]

Some jackass brought physics into an Edong thread.

You can't have physics in a Edong thread. WTF madness is this?

I haven't understood a word of the last 2 or 3 pages. And yet it's still an improvement on the original topic.

[J. Peterman]

So is the Arcane Warrior DA:I's answer to the TGI or GI?

 

It's a combination of both. Only at level 9 though.

[Alfonsedode]

You must discover the joys of exploring planets with the Mako!

 

 

 

Don't listen to the haters, it was the greatest!

I just played 4 hours of UNC with the mako yesterday, and it was not so funny in the end, Geth incursion were a pain

I should have mixed it a bit

[cato potato]

 

It's a combination of both. Only at level 9 though.

 

I had no idea Zae had that kind of accent.

[J. Peterman]

I had no idea Zae had that kind of accent.

 

Caught me by surprise too.

[Alfonsedode]

 

It's a combination of both. Only at level 9 though.

This game seems pretty boring, i wonder why U all left ME3 MP

[J. Peterman]

This game seems pretty boring, i wonder why U all left ME3 MP

 

Because ME3 is dead. Get with the times and get over it.

[MaxCrushmore]

So is the Arcane Warrior DA:I's answer to the TGI or GI?

 

I would equate the AW to GI, for pure damage output if played with skill,

 

but the TGI is more like the Elementalist, huge damage output, and can spam all powerful barrier on himself.

[Beerfish]

GI = cheating class

Claymore = reload cancelling = cheating class

 

Low skill people play that class and that gun because they can't be a volus.