395 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

So like the first time I talked to Leliana I told her to kill the traitor. I later told her we are better then Cory. Then at the Temple I tell her not to kill the girl. But she still kills her and says I told her to be a jerk and goes all dark. Sheesh.

[MariosCad]

And she told you why.....

[Fardreamer]

Yeah, it was pretty bad.  I mean, the traitor in the beginning of the game not only knew the names of other agents, but killed one of her best agents as well.  He deserves to die.  I chose the "stay out of it" option, and apparently if you don't tell her not to kill him, she becomes ruthless in the end.

 

Weak.

[LPPrince]

Sometimes, little decisions matter. You should've been on top of it. That earlier choice was a chance to "soften" Leliana if you will. Think of the chances to "harden" a companion back in DAO, but reverse.

[Nefla]

Oh so that's what made the difference? I wondered.

[rda]

I think the scout thing also affects her, which I find stupid. So your scouts are being murdered and your response is...to draw them all back? What's the point of scouts, then? You know there's something bad happening and your response is...ignore it and withdraw to Haven?

All the options there were kinda stupid. If your scouts are being murdered, best response is probably a reconnaissance in force coordinated with Cullen, not black/white, let the scouts die vs. withdraw them all. Just stupidity. I actually yelled at her for that because it was stupid.

[Devil's Avocado]

Makes sense to me. Sounds like her hardened choice back in DA:O, you don't realize picking a certain dialogue will affect someone until it happens.

[Fardreamer]

Ordering the execution of a traitor who has killed other agents and is working to sell out even more is not the same as killing a chantry sister in cold blood because you found out she's spying for someone else.

 

Executing the traitor in Haven was the right choice.  Letting him live for no reason makes you an indecisive and weak leader. 

[Dragoonlordz]

It is not a single factor that changes her though, I think I told her to let him live because he could of had information but she still became vicious and nasty later. It could be because I hardened her in DAO though but I am unsure. Or it could be glitched which would not surprise me given how many glitches and bugs are with this game and maybe she was supposed to be softened based on my choices but glitched and became nasty instead.

[Fardreamer]

Makes sense to me. Sounds like her hardened choice back in DA:O, you don't realize picking a certain dialogue will affect someone until it happens.

 

Um... no it isnt.  In DA:O it was incredibly obvious.  You either encourage her to follow her beliefs or tell her that her old life as a bard was the better choice.  It was just 1 dialogue and it didn't depend on whether you killed Marjoline or let her live.

 

Same with Alistair.  It was incredibly obvious.  You either tell him life sucks and he should learn to deal with it, or coddle his emotions.  No other choices impacted his hardening/softening.

[Fardreamer]

It is a single factor that changes her though, I think I told her to let him live because he could of had information but she still became vicious and nasty later. It could be because I hardened her in DAO though but I am unsure.

 

There's 3 checks...

1. The traitor agent at Haven - to soften her, you must tell her not to kill him.  Staying out of it doesn't matter.

2. After the attack on Haven, she blames herself for letting her scouts die - to soften her you have to tell her its not her fault, and they knew their duty I think.

3. In the chantry on her personal quest - you have to tell her not to kill the sister.

 

If you don't do any one of these correctly, she becomes ruthless.

 

EDIT: Apparently you have to tell that pulling her spies back from the front would have been the best option.

[Dragoonlordz]

There's 3 checks...

1. The traitor agent at Haven - to soften her, you must tell her not to kill him.  Staying out of it doesn't matter.

2. After the attack on Haven, she blames herself for letting her scouts die - to soften her you have to tell her its not her fault, and they knew their duty I think.

3. In the chantry on her personal quest - you have to tell her not to kill the sister.

 

If you don't do any one of these correctly, she becomes ruthless.

 

I think I did all those and she still became ruthless. I know for fact I did last two plus almost certain if recall correctly also did first one too.

[CronoDragoon]

You mean your choices matter? The horror.

 

Leliana is ruthless by default. It's going to take extra effort to soften her.

[Jaron Oberyn]

It is not a single factor that changes her though, I think I told her to let him live because he could of had information but she still became vicious and nasty later. It could be because I hardened her in DAO though but I am unsure. Or it could be glitched which would not surprise me given how many glitches and bugs are with this game and maybe she was supposed to be softened based on my choices but glitched and became nasty instead.

 

It seems you have to both let the traitor live in Haven, as well as tell Leliana that she did the right thing in pulling her spies back after the Elder One attacked - that the inquisition's people are not expendable. This will get you the opportunity to successfully talk her down from killing the sister at the end of the game. 

[Fardreamer]

It seems you have to both let the traitor live in Haven, as well as tell Leliana that she did the right thing in pulling her spies back after the Elder One attacked - that the inquisition's people are not expendable. This will get you the opportunity to successfully talk her down from killing the sister at the end of the game. 

 

Ah, that makes more since about the scouts...

[diagorias]

I thought it was pretty cool how far reaching the consequences were. Then again, I was a bit bummed when she killed her no matter what I said

[Bladenite1481]

From a story point..I get it. I mean, the problem is that she has done some really horrible things for Justinia. So she is already down that road thinking that the ends justify the means, she is hardwired to ruthlessness so you have to do everything you can do make her better. 

[SabreTastic]

Besides that...you're not even the Inquisitor when you get the option to tell her to spare the traitor. She's well within her rights to question and ignore you.

 

But I suppose if you come at it from the idea that maybe Leliana needs the breath of fresh air that is someone who isn't scared of her reputation as the 'shadow behind the sunburst throne' to stand up and remind her that there are many paths to the same place (whoops, Qun reference, but still)...I could see where that makes a certain amount of sense. And that is just like the Warden where she needed that boost to her confidence. 'If you were truly a bad person, doing bad things wouldn't worry you so much.'/'Bad people don't worry about whether or not they're being good.' In Inquisition, she's been doing the Divine's dirty work for so long, she's completely reverted to embracing the side of herself that the Warden had the opportunity to try and sway her against. She's 'making the hard decisions' because 'someone has to make them.'

 

In my worldstate where the Sister lived, there was a Queen Warden and the Inquisitor 1) Told her to spare Butler, 2) told her the soldiers were not expendable, and 3) told her not to kill the Sister.

 

In my worldstate where the Sister was killed, there was a Leliana-Romanced US Cousland and the Inquisitior 1) Did not interfere with Butler, 2) told her the soldiers were not expendable, and 3) told her not to kill the Sister. She basically said something along the lines of 'How dare you try and tell me what to do! Justinia has no idea what she's talking about! I am clearly my own person!' But she started out even more ruthless and bitter in that one, I felt.

 

I also wonder if the chats regarding her outburst in Haven or the follow up to 'Here Lies the Abyss' make any difference--seeing as she does reference them again later.

[Pantalaimon]

I thought "Oh well she's the spymaster so I'll just let her do her job" and stayed out of it. I had no idea I somehow set her on a path of coldness and hatred. 

[Dragoonlordz]

It seems you have to both let the traitor live in Haven, as well as tell Leliana that she did the right thing in pulling her spies back after the Elder One attacked - that the inquisition's people are not expendable. This will get you the opportunity to successfully talk her down from killing the sister at the end of the game. 

 

I did that too.

 

The only things that might be what caused it on mine I think is because I hardened her in DAO (if keep takes that into account even) plus on her chantry scene I did not tell her to stop right away in first set of options and picked the sarcastic comment about Leliana seeing through the lies, the second chance when she was actually about to kill her I told her to stop but she turned on me. Every other choice I did right based on what people have said in this thread. Or maybe like said might have been glitched on mine perhaps.

[Wulfram]

Yeah, I do find it a bit odd.

 

 I mean, I get that it's intended that "hardening" be default, but having that choice where what she's doing really doesn't seem especially bad - and your protagonist doesn't really yet have the sort of relationship to be poking into her psyche - is awkward.

 

It's also jarring because hardened Leliana comes off as so much gone of the deep end.  If she just seemed like a ruthless spymaster, it'd make sense.

[Kantr]

Alistair hardening isnt obvious. You have to go back to camp and talk with him. If you dont he's not hardened

[Devil's Avocado]

Um... no it isnt.  In DA:O it was incredibly obvious.  You either encourage her to follow her beliefs or tell her that her old life as a bard was the better choice.  It was just 1 dialogue and it didn't depend on whether you killed Marjoline or let her live.

 

Same with Alistair.  It was incredibly obvious.  You either tell him life sucks and he should learn to deal with it, or coddle his emotions.  No other choices impacted his hardening/softening.

 At the time did anyone know that you could change personalities so much to the point where they respond differently to choices you make in game? It wasn't until I came online looking for information that I found out about this hardening mechanic and that Alistair and leliana actually did change and no one else could. The game doesn't even call it hardening.

In the case of leliana in DA:I, you talk to her for the first time and it's clear her fate is troubled and she's slipping down a more ruthless path. The next time you talk to her is that scout choice.

Sure from good spymaster point of view, you'll kill the betraying scout, but that doesn't mean it's will have the best effect on her mind which is still getting over that her mentor who she saw like a mother just died. No one else has a choice like this (it lacked the glowly orange dialogue wheel) but previous DA games never needed to spelled out that "this is important!"
 

[Fardreamer]

I did that too.

 

The only things that might be what caused it on mine I think is because I hardened her in DAO (if keep takes that into account even) plus on her chantry scene I did not tell her to stop right away in first set of options and picked the sarcastic comment about Leliana seeing through the lies, the second chance when she was actually about to kill her I told her to stop but she turned on me. Every other choice I did right based on what people have said in this thread. Or maybe like said might have been glitched on mine perhaps.

 

It doesn't take that into account.  There's no option indicate if she was hardened or not in the DA:Keep. 

[Fardreamer]

 but previous DA games never needed to spelled out that "this is important!"
 

 

Like I said before, that's because it was incredibly obvious when something was important.  The DA:O major plot points were so obvious that you didn't need to go online to find out about them.

 

Leliana : What do you think?

 

Option 1: I think you should keep your faith in the Maker.

Option 2: I think you should go back to your life as a bard.

 

You had to go online to see that those two choices were different?