395 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

It doesn't take that into account.  There's no option indicate if she was hardened or not in the DA:Keep. 

 

In which case the only thing could be is the first set of options at the chanty by picking the sarcastic comment, second set telling her to stop unless there is more choices in game which impacts it else mine might have glitched. I am pretty sure I chose all the right answers in the ones listed in this thread so far with exception of that first set of chantry options in which did not tell her to stop and was sarcastic then told her to stop in second set but she still became vicious. So maybe need to tell her to stop in both sets of choices within chantry.

[SabreTastic]

There is the flag in the keep for Marjolaine--just as there is one for Goldanna. Perhaps it assumes that if you killed her, you hardened Leliana?

 

I had that flagged 'Killed Marjolaine' in the Keep both times.

 

But I have also chosen the sarcastic 'Good old Leliana was having you on, Natalie!' comment and 'Wait, don't kill her' options both times. Lived once, died once.

[holdenagincourt]

Sometimes, little decisions matter. You should've been on top of it. That earlier choice was a chance to "soften" Leliana if you will. Think of the chances to "harden" a companion back in DAO, but reverse.

 

You're skipping past the argument that the two situations are utterly dichotomous and that an "on top of it" and ethically consistent Inquisitor might condone the execution of an active double agent who has already murdered one of your own, while objecting to the murder of a Chantry sister whose only known "crime" is gathering information for a cleric who had a different political alignment than the late Justinia.

 

Unlike hardened Leliana, who doesn't see the difference between those two quantities despite the Inquisitor pointing it out to her, because she is utterly batslit crazy.

[Gothfather]

Poor Bioware.

 

There is one thread that complains none of your choices have any impact on the ending or characters in the game now this thread complains that your choices have too much impact on a character.

 

I swear the internet did us no service giving everyone a voice.

[LPPrince]

You're skipping past the argument that the two situations are utterly dichotomous and that an "on top of it" and ethically consistent Inquisitor might condone the execution of an active double agent who has already murdered one of your own, while objecting to the murder of a Chantry sister whose only known "crime" is gathering information for a cleric who had a different political alignment than the late Justinia.

 

Unlike hardened Leliana, who doesn't see the difference between those two quantities despite the Inquisitor pointing it out to her, because she is utterly batslit crazy.

 

By "on top of it" I mean the player. Always consider a dialogue choice to be important. You never know the effect they may have later.

[LPPrince]

Poor Bioware.

 

There is one thread that complains none of your choices have any impact on the ending or characters in the game now this thread complains that your choices have too much impact on a character.

 

I swear the internet did us no service giving everyone a voice.

 

Opinions, tho

[JasonPogo]

Poor Bioware.

There is one thread that complains none of your choices have any impact on the ending or characters in the game now this thread complains that your choices have too much impact on a character.

I swear the internet did us no service giving everyone a voice.

I'm glad my choices matter. Just find it odd that such a major character defining choice was presented to you the second time you can even talk to a character. Before you even get to know her at all.

[JamieCOTC]

People asked for choices that mattered ...

[JasonPogo]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. It's not that the choice is important. It's that it is placed right at the start of the game before you have a clear understanding of the character or the context of the choice.

[o Ventus]

I think the scout thing also affects her, which I find stupid. So your scouts are being murdered and your response is...to draw them all back? What's the point of scouts, then? You know there's something bad happening and your response is...ignore it and withdraw to Haven?

Seriously? This actually hurt to read.

If something is out there killing your scouts, your first idea would be "eh, they're scouts", and leave them? That's a good way to not only run out of scouts, but also have people desert, because it tells the people under your command that you don't care about their well-being.

[CronoDragoon]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. It's not that the choice is important. It's that it is placed right at the start of the game before you have a clear understanding of the character or the context of the choice.

 

You have a perfect understanding of the context of the choice, and her character is irrelevant to that choice unless you're specifically trying to game the system.

 

Once again, this isn't a situation where one choice leads Leliana to become ruthless and the other to become more benevolent. She is ruthless by default.

[Bann Duncan]

Yeah, it was pretty bad.  I mean, the traitor in the beginning of the game not only knew the names of other agents, but killed one of her best agents as well.  He deserves to die.  I chose the "stay out of it" option, and apparently if you don't tell her not to kill him, she becomes ruthless in the end.

 

Weak.

 

I love the game, but that was poor design. As a fan since Origins, of course it was sad to see Leliana like that at the beginning, but I thought it was not the ex-prisoner-who-is-not-even-Inquisitor-yet's place to tell her what to do, so I stayed out of it... and despite telling her that it's good to feel for her soldiers and such later, she was auto-hardened.

[Dragoonlordz]

Poor Bioware.

 

There is one thread that complains none of your choices have any impact on the ending or characters in the game now this thread complains that your choices have too much impact on a character.

 

I swear the internet did us no service giving everyone a voice.

 

Most people do not dislike things because there are choices that have an impact, it is a dislike of not knowing why something happens and no idea what choices had the aforementioned impact/consequences. That actually comes down to bad writing if the choices you are making do not relate well to the consequences of those choices. When a consequence does not make sense based on the choices you made. All this thread is doing in my opinion is trying to figure out what relationship previous choices had with the drastic personality change consequence shown in game.

 

My Leliana was nice, sometimes bit harsh and even a tiny bit protective but never vicious or brutal prior to that scene in DAI itself, I picked the nice options and believed I had softened her up based on previous choices even more so...when that scene happened and she became so nasty and vicious it did not fit with the character she was all the way up leading to that point. You could argue that there was some traits but at a fraction of the scale of what happened, but it was a glaring and almost split personality level of change for mine which happened almost in an instant within that scene.

[Sardoni]

If she becomes divine is she's soft she'll sit down with her opposition and peacefully negotiate successful.  If she's hard she'll just have her opposition assassinated.  If she isn't divine besides what you've directly witnessed no apparent impact.

 

The difference is an epilogue slide.  Not like the unnamed traitor or the sister have a larger role to play themselves in the grand scheme... although it would be nice to see a butterfly effect.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Didn't you get the message? Apparently none of the choices you make in the game matter for anything ever in any game forever no matter what ever.

 

At least, that's the meme that's floating around.

[Zaw]

I don't know, I think the signs were there in the writing. She was definitely showing stress and anger in the beginning of the game. If you endorse it, you're going to get more. I agree with people that she is "ruthless by default." She obviously went through a lot since DAO.

If your character is a true peacemaker, I can't see you accidentally leaving her ruthless. If your character is neutral/cold, then you're taking a gamble on trying to talk someone down.

I'll agree it's not perfect, you would expect some room for error (maybe 3 of 4 choices or something.) But it's nothing new for a Bioware decision though. Its like how you needed all paragon answers for TIM/Saren in ME. If you even skip 1, I think the final option is blown.

TBH, I think they should do more like this, where very subtle influence throughout the game effects people. The idea is you aren't directly supposed to be choosing their fate, its your actions that unknowingly do. I like it.

[keyip]

It DOES seem like it was shoehorned in. She makes hundreds of decisions a week but THAT decision to not kill the dude who's endangering your campaign is the one that turns her?

 

Well... go figure.

[Devil's Avocado]

Like I said before, that's because it was incredibly obvious when something was important.  The DA:O major plot points were so obvious that you didn't need to go online to find out about them.

 

Leliana : What do you think?

 

Option 1: I think you should keep your faith in the Maker.

Option 2: I think you should go back to your life as a bard.

 

You had to go online to see that those two choices were different?

 

I had to go online and see that it affected their behavior. I thought it was simply more choices to allow me to roleplay and maybe change the ending, not the approval system. Secondly there were more than two choices during that scene it isn't so cut and dry as "Keep Faith or Be a Bard"

[Rehmere]

I registered my forum account so I could share on this topic as well, as it did concern me.

 

First of all, I want to make it clear that I am a big Bioware fan, and that I love DA:I so far, but when I reached the quest where Leliana goes ruthless it really unsettled me.

 

I really like Leliana, and I never wanted her to go down this path.

I do not object to the fact that your decisions can make this happen, or even that she is ruthless by default. I felt instinctively that both were the case.

My issue is that I have chosen soft, sympathetic, moderate, compassionate choices in every choice my Inquisitor has made, particularly to her, and then I get to this quest and she acts the same as if I had been telling her to kill everyone I came across.

 

I had no idea where I went wrong, and at first thought that maybe it was unavoidable, which sucked.

 

What sucked more was finding out that it was perfectly avoidable, but that the choice was so long ago, was so easy to make wrong, and was so easy to not realise its importance.

 

Seriously, I'm used to choices like this in Bioware games, but I never expected it so soon. Like others have said I didn't feel I had the place to tell her to spare the vile traitor so early on.

 

If It had been clear that there is NO WAY to soften her if I hadn't spared him, I would have.

If there had been anything mitigating about the traitor to suggest leniency was anything but an injustice to the dead people he betrayed, I would have.

If it had been later in the game, when I knew her better, and felt I could confront her on the issue, I would have.

If the result hadn't come 20 hours later I would have reloaded and tried again. Instead I have to go on with a bad taste in my mouth.

[MrTijger]

*headdesk* So, now you got a choice that matters you're all complaining it is either too early or not clearly telegraphed enough? Seriously?

 

Bioware, please dont bother to listen to these people anymore? Apparently they need to have everything spelled out, at which point they'll loudly complain the game has been dumbed down, of course.

[AsheraII]

You mean your choices matter? The horror.

 

Leliana is ruthless by default. It's going to take extra effort to soften her.

Depends how you handled Marjoleine whether she's ruthless by default I think.

[AsheraII]

I registered my forum account so I could share on this topic as well, as it did concern me.

 

First of all, I want to make it clear that I am a big Bioware fan, and that I love DA:I so far, but when I reached the quest where Leliana goes ruthless it really unsettled me.

 

I really like Leliana, and I never wanted her to go down this path.

I do not object to the fact that your decisions can make this happen, or even that she is ruthless by default. I felt instinctively that both were the case.

My issue is that I have chosen soft, sympathetic, moderate, compassionate choices in every choice my Inquisitor has made, particularly to her, and then I get to this quest and she acts the same as if I had been telling her to kill everyone I came across.

 

I had no idea where I went wrong, and at first thought that maybe it was unavoidable, which sucked.

 

What sucked more was finding out that it was perfectly avoidable, but that the choice was so long ago, was so easy to make wrong, and was so easy to not realise its importance.

 

Seriously, I'm used to choices like this in Bioware games, but I never expected it so soon. Like others have said I didn't feel I had the place to tell her to spare the vile traitor so early on.

 

If It had been clear that there is NO WAY to soften her if I hadn't spared him, I would have.

If there had been anything mitigating about the traitor to suggest leniency was anything but an injustice to the dead people he betrayed, I would have.

If it had been later in the game, when I knew her better, and felt I could confront her on the issue, I would have.

If the result hadn't come 20 hours later I would have reloaded and tried again. Instead I have to go on with a bad taste in my mouth.

The idea is that the repercussions of our choices are NOT always clear. If anything, I'd like to see Bioware add more long-term effects, stretching across several games. Not big world-affecting decisions, the big ending-decisions of ME are the worst things ever I think. But small effects that affect how NPCs behave and react in a far future, maybe even affecting their loyalty on the long term.

[Zeroth Angel]

This is actually something I really like.

[skotie]

Am I the only one who feels Leliana is bad ether way? I mean she's just too extreme. Why is there no middle ground Leliana?

[Fatal Fox]

We want our choices to matter but we also want them to make sense. The fact is it should have been the MAJORITY of checks (or at least just her personal quest) rather then one simple choice in the beginning. I have no idea why you would just give someone that betrayed and murdered a free pass anyway.