35 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadyPro]

Hm, can I have more than only 8 active spells? I am mage and I have plenty of spells. I can only put 8 in my bar. Is there anyway I can choose more active spells?

[Matth85]

AFAIK; no. It's a shame, but that's how it is.

[Shallyah]

I think it's a combat design choice from BioWare that you can only haev 8 active skills at a time, much as it's done in games like Guild Wars or Diablo 3.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yep, only 8. Because choices, strategy and tactics. That's what they said. 

[Matth85]

Totally. Not because there is limited button on controller. Not a chance!

[JaegerBane]

Yeah, something along the lines of how 32 abilities across 4 characters is 'enough', whatever that means. I'd assume that it's something to do with gamepads having fewer buttons.

As much as I hate it, it does make you think carefully about what spells you take, and does encourage passives and upgrades over active spells. I would have preferred to be able to make that choice for myself though. Even two extra slots to bring it to an even 10 would have been enough.

[Matth85]

I would prefer another row of buttons, and the ability to keybind using modifers. Such as Shift + 1, Shift + 2, Shift + E, etc, etc.

As a mage there are plenty of abilities I would want for comboing. 

 

However, this is only a problem for a mage. As a DW rogue I do fine with 8. No lost abilities. As a 2h warrior I got leftover space. As an archer I got leftover space. It's just the good 'ol mage with it's versatility. 

This is also not a problem unless you really work the levels. If you do, as you mentioned, focus on passives: you shouldn't need more than 8 slots by level 20. If you are an completionist, or want to grind for a future expansion/DLC (I don't know.. somebody do? I heard a guy hit 29!), you suddenly get more points than you can use. At that point a few more slots would be nice!

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's not that different from Vancian casting. I don't mind it.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's not that different from Vancian casting. I don't mind it.

 

So Amell, Surana and Hawke can cast their spells without worrying about Vancian limitation....But Inquisitor, Solas, Vivienne, Dorian, etc cannot ?

 

Sounds to me like Ferelden's Circle of Magi is the best place to go for a mage to study in Thedas. You can learn Mana Clash, Storm of the Century, Fireball, Hexes, Glyphs, Walking Bomb, Healing, then there is still specializations to pick from and there are no limitations like Vancian magic there. 

[JaegerBane]

It's not really like Vancian Casting at all - the problem is slots, not how many times one can use a given spell. At a stretch, its like a D&D Sorcerer.

 

It's a bit strange as the previous games never had this issue despite having more or less the same control setup.

[lastpawn]

What irks me a bit is that I always want 9 abilities. Not 10 or anything, just 9. 

 

As it is, I tend to ditch focus abilities. They're too good anyway... : )

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's not really like Vancian Casting at all - the problem is slots, not how many times one can use a given spell. At a stretch, its like a D&D Sorcerer.

It's a bit strange as the previous games never had this issue despite having more or less the same control setup.

Sorcerers could cast any spell at any time, with just a limited number of casts between rests. They were more like a non-regenerating mana system.

But the Vancian casters, particularly in CRPGs with an abusable rest mechanic, limited you only in that you had to decide in advance which spells you'd be able to cast. There was a count limit between rests, but that worked out as just a per encounter limit.

DAI's works, in practice, much as BG and NWN did.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So Amell, Surana and Hawke can cast their spells without worrying about Vancian limitation....But Inquisitor, Solas, Vivienne, Dorian, etc cannot ?

Sounds to me like Ferelden's Circle of Magi is the best place to go for a mage to study in Thedas. You can learn Mana Clash, Storm of the Century, Fireball, Hexes, Glyphs, Walking Bomb, Healing, then there is still specializations to pick from and there are no limitations like Vancian magic there.

BioWare clearly has no interest in consistency across games. They should just admit that and scrap world-state importing.

[c3lix]

8 buttons on controller... Come on. You should be able to give yourself the answer.

[JnEricsonx]

I'd rather they have stuck the basic attack on A or X like in DA 2, and just used the R trigger to allow another 4 powers.  Hell, didn't DAO do that?

[Magma_Axis]

BioWare clearly has no interest in consistency across games. They should just admit that and scrap world-state importing.

Bioware do that and there will be insane backlash that makes 8 abilities limit debacles seems like child's play

[Sylvius the Mad]

Bioware do that and there will be insane backlash that makes 8 abilities limit debacles seems like child's play

Imports badly constrain the overall design by preventing wildly divergent plot lines.

[JaegerBane]

Sorcerers could cast any spell at any time, with just a limited number of casts between rests. They were more like a non-regenerating mana system.
But the Vancian casters, particularly in CRPGs with an abusable rest mechanic, limited you only in that you had to decide in advance which spells you'd be able to cast. There was a count limit between rests, but that worked out as just a per encounter limit.
DAI's works, in practice, much as BG and NWN did.

But isn't that the point? Vancian casting limits the number of times you can cast a spell, this system limits how many spells you can realistically use in normal gameplay. You can spam your limited number of spells as much as you like subject to your spell casting resource, that's hardly like having to decide the number of casts in advance.

[Matth85]

But isn't that the point? Vancian casting limits the number of times you can cast a spell, this system limits how many spells you can realistically use in normal gameplay. You can spam your limited number of spells as much as you like subject to your spell casting resource, that's hardly like having to decide the number of casts in advance.

Isn't that the point of "mana"? To limit spell casting over the course of a fight.

 

no, I do not think this had anything to do with design. They built the game around consoles, so we are limited by that. If the game was built for PC, we'd probably have a lot more abilities and slots. For better or for worse? That's another question entirely!

[errantknight]

You can get more by making those ones preferred in your tactics and switching away to another character long enough for tham to use the ability/abilities

 

Not that we should have to, sadly

[JaegerBane]

 
no, I do not think this had anything to do with design. They built the game around consoles, so we are limited by that. If the game was built for PC, we'd probably have a lot more abilities and slots. For better or for worse? That's another question entirely!

Yeah.... Though I suspect it was built 'for action' rather than 'for consoles', as it wouldn't have been rocket science to use a power wheel of some kind rather than a straight power-per-button limit. Even a third power quad on the game pad would have been enough, the only cost being it would have slowed things down.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I dont get why people are so upset over "only" 8 skills. There is not enough resource pool to spam all skills consistently. Having more also ruins experimentation, tactical/strategic choice of abilities and is just plain silly tbh. 

What exactly is it people want? To be be able to use all skills in the game on each character? If you pick up one passive for each active you'd have to be lvl16!! Just to START getting more skills anyways. 

[TeamLexana]

I don't think you can blame consoles considering the other DA's and even ME's had power wheels, this one does not and that's the limitation, plain and simple. Either it was a design choice or the new engine can't handle it for some reason, which seems odd, so I am going with design choice.

[JaegerBane]

I dont get why people are so upset over "only" 8 skills. There is not enough resource pool to spam all skills consistently. Having more also ruins experimentation, tactical/strategic choice of abilities and is just plain silly tbh. 
What exactly is it people want? To be be able to use all skills in the game on each character? If you pick up one passive for each active you'd have to be lvl16!! Just to START getting more skills anyways.

Well, for one, 8 skills impacts high level builds - once you get over a certain level you find yourself having to take active skills to open up new passives despite not having the slots for them.

Secondly, the way spells and passives work in this isn't a million miles from how they worked in DA2, which was meant to work with a lot more slots. This isn't like Diablo 3 where a single spell can do multiple jobs at once.

Thirdly, on the contrary, having less slots hits experimentation as you simply have less spare capacity to try unorthodox spell combinations. You're less inclined to slot the stranger spells when it means dropping most of your standbys.

Ironically I suspect that merely an extra 2 slots to make it an even 10 would have been enough.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But isn't that the point? Vancian casting limits the number of times you can cast a spell, this system limits how many spells you can realistically use in normal gameplay. You can spam your limited number of spells as much as you like subject to your spell casting resource, that's hardly like having to decide the number of casts in advance.

The point is that uou had to choose which spells you wanted in advance. It was never the case that you, during an encounter, could choose among all of your known spells. That's the same effect Inquisition's 8-slots has.

Vancian added a further restriction, yes, which this system lacks. But the restriction we're actually facing here is much like one also produced by Vancian casting.

That's my point.