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Tactics system feedback and suggestions


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#1
Jackal19851111

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Lets face it, the tactics system in DA:I could use some work. DA:I is a great game and this topic is about making it better.

I'm not saying we should return to what we had in origins, but there are certain key features missing that should be developed. Let's start with the problem:

 

With the current system we have little to zero customisation and as a result, mages are firing AOEs off indiscriminately even at one enemy (which may even kill off your own party), barriers are cast on the wrong character that needs it, rogues are stealthing at the wrong times, wasted opportunities for ability combos due to AI spamming abilities you can't tell them to be smarter about, and tactical players are forced to either micromanage by turn off AI tactics, or reducing the difficulty to ease the frustrations.

 

However - all this can be improved! Let's start with the tactics screen:

 

TACTICS

 

Right now for each ability we have:

1) Enabled

2) Preferred

3) Disabled

 

There needs to be triggers like in DAO and DA2, for example: "trigger when health <25% (barrier), enemies surrounded by 2 or more allies (chain lightning), enemy attacking you with a melee weapon (fire spell to panick), enemy frozen (use ability for combo) etc etc". Also, you need to be able to prioritise abilities over others, for example, if given the choice of using barrier or using chain lighting when being attacked in melee, you should be able to set "barrier" as the preferred option over "chain lightning", without being forced to change chain lighting to "enabled" status just to get the AI to prefer the barrier.

 

You should keep the streamlined options sure, for casual players, and admittedly it's much more user friendly then previous games (as there isn't anything to it), but for players who wish to play tactically, the current system is mediocre at best.

 

If you wish to be ambitious post-launch however, you can also add an option for multiple conditions prior to an ability being triggered.

But that is DA:O level and I personally, can live without it as long as the basics are in place.

 

BEHAVIORS

 

On the behaviors side, the healing potion reserve/mana reserve options are fine IMHO. However the targeting options need to be more developed. Instead of just "follow" and "defend" characters, there should be options to prioritise targets as well, for example; magic>ranged>melee etc or highest/lowest health. Also, there should be options for you to configure ranged or melee behaviour, as at present times, ranged AI will not move out of melee range and in many cases will even charge into melee range, which can be very frustrating.

 

CONCLUSION:

 

Alot of the fun in real time tactical games is planning your strategy and then seeing it play out in real time, there was alot of fun to be had in DAO and even in DA2, training your battle hardened party over experience through the tactics system, continually refining it to the point that the companions feel alive as their AI gets smarter and smarter and evolves to the player's playstyle (even if it's through our own input). I consider the tactics screens an important part of the Dragon Age formula which is a unique and competitive advantage when it comes to RPG games, as it also adds to the feeling of teamwork and gives you a sense of comradeship with your companions. And, it's always fun to be creative and see what strategies you can come up with. In DAI unfortunately I never felt it.

 

Please consider these suggestions Bioware, and none of it is to my credit - you've already thought of all this before in DA:O. The current tactics system is streamlined and user-friendly, but can be so much more with just a little more work. I remember when I charged into combat with DAO and DA2, I can mentally nod to my companions going "you guys know what to do", and to see Leliana launch her arrow of slaying at the mage hiding in the corner without my orders - initiative - that's what I like to see. I long for the day when I can see Sera or Varric using Full Draw the same manner, without my input, and then I can feel that I'm part of a great adventuring party.


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#2
b10d1v

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So true, however many of the tactical issues go way down as to how inquisition scans hardware and gets choked doing so.  This bug is likely the source of inconsistent and finicky behavior.



#3
Jackal19851111

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So true, however many of the tactical issues go way down as to how inquisition scans hardware and gets choked doing so.  This bug is likely the source of inconsistent and finicky behavior.

 

Huh? I'm sorry, I don't follow



#4
lichg

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Every thread about it tries to suggest how to improve it, some ask for it as dlc (is this a joke or do ppl hate having money?)

No need to reinvent the wheel. Reinventing the wheel is what set the series into an identity crysis.
Just bring back origins' tactic system. It worked. It was praised. It was GOOD and defined the game.
Wanna be extra good? Make it as good as the tactics mod of origins. Gave you so much control you can plan a spell to trigger if an enemy farts...
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#5
Jackal19851111

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Well, that's basically the point of the thread, while keeping the foundations of the current tactics system in play as I'm not certain they would be interested in overhauling the system back to Origins, even if I agree its superior to all subsequent games especially with the Advanced Tactics mod. Besides, they have their creative vision to defend, and that I can respect.



#6
lichg

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tbh im not sure how a tactic system like origins' gets in the way of any form of "creative vision" that they made. its an optional system that was never forced on the player and simply added more control to those who wish it. 

besides, you have a tactical camera. that thing was shoved onto every trailer this game had and the overall message was "this game goes back to its roots" so both the ppl who want the tactical aspect of the game and the ppl who want an action combat will both be happy.

 

one would also argue that this sort of tactics system would go hand in hand with the action side of the combat, since you can assume direct control and know that the ai would work as you planned it to act according to the situation instead of constantly keeping an eye on them knowing they are gonna fu*k up.

 

SOOOoooo... the removal of it ruins it for everyone while keeping it hurt no one?



#7
Jackal19851111

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Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that the tactics system would go hand in hand with the action elements. Dragon Age Origin allowed for all action based gameplay without any use of the tactical camera if you have the right tactics setup (with the mod at least, even without it was quite workable). If Bioware wishes to go the action-orientated route, reducing micromanagement of the strategic elements should be a priority, and the best way for this is through the tactics system.

 

It not only allows players to focus on the action itself, but it doesn't hampen its tactical depth.

 

The tactics system is a Dragon Age IP, Bioware, please use it.



#8
Ashzure

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Tactic system need to be fixed cause this is just a mess. Setting up combos is almost impossible w/o ridiculous micromanagement. I get that during bosses/dragons this is need and that's fine but against all enemies in the game is just so bad and makes combat so slow...

 

Best thing would be to simply add back the DA2 system which imo is the best companion ai system to use.



#9
Maledictor

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Viewing the battle field i terrible. The view angle is horrible and moving the camera according to the groud lvl and getting sudden zooms bc a branch or plank is sticking out is very annoying. 



#10
ZipZap2000

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Tactics slots were good because it eliminated micromanagement and constant cycling, you could also set several preferred presets that allowed you to quickly cycle through strategies which gave you the ability to adapt quickly to new scenarios and different combat situations. Using defensive tactics slots indoors gave you a real advantage over your enemies for example. Drawing 2 warriors out of a room full of mages and archers only for them to get stuck in crafted traps with two tanks blocking a choke point in front of them gave you the opportunity engage the mages and archers in melee combat which was usually their end. Rather than getting jammed in the doorway and smashed by ranged attackers you couldn't get to.

 

Where as having your rogue go on the offensive flanking and backstabbing archers while your mage was set as a dedicated healer let you prioritise ranged (if you prefer it that way) targets without losing too much health to melee attackers. 

 

I miss them to death but I can only imagine the response if they'd included them without having enough time to properly finish them altogether. I hope we get an upgrade at some point but i really, really doubt it. 


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#11
Darkly Tranquil

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The real problem with the party controls is a combination of factors. They wrecked the Tac Cam, they nerfed Tactics to oblivion, they rendered behaviours irrelevant, and they produced their stupidest companion AI yet. If they could have just implemented a decent Tac Cam and AI and still nerfed the others, it would have been okay; if they had nerfed the Tac Cam and AI and kept the full Tactics system, it would have been okay, and so on; but nerfing all of the control tools at once and botching the AI is what really stuffed things up.
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#12
yeldarbnotned

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We need a much greater zoom out factor.  The field of view is usually horrible, unless they give you a nice big area to fight dragons.  I must also agree the AI for any character outside shield and sword tank is bad.  I spend a lot of time pausing and taking control of mages who love to run up and fight with warriors in melee combat.



#13
Darkly Tranquil

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We need a much greater zoom out factor.  The field of view is usually horrible, unless they give you a nice big area to fight dragons.  I must also agree the AI for any character outside shield and sword tank is bad.  I spend a lot of time pausing and taking control of mages who love to run up and fight with warriors in melee combat.


The Tac cam zoom issue can be resolved with Cheat Engine -
http://www.gamerhead...-dao-isometric/
http://forum.cheaten...5563944#5563944
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#14
Razir-Samus

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The Tac cam zoom issue can be resolved with Cheat Engine -
http://www.gamerhead...-dao-isometric/
http://forum.cheaten...5563944#5563944

held back for a year and a month (?) and it still releases with a plethora of issues that are plainly obvious for anyone to see, how did they manage to get it past QA?



#15
In Exile

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held back for a year and a month (?) and it still releases with a plethora of issues that are plainly obvious for anyone to see, how did they manage to get it past QA?


Like this:
QA: We need more time.
Executive: You had an extra year. Release it.

#16
Jackal19851111

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I knew I missed something - ranged/melee behavior, I'm also having a problem with my ranged characters not moving out of melee and it's quite frustrating. Editing it in.

 

Not sure whether I should include the tactical camera problems, as this topic is focused on the tactics system specifically.



#17
In Exile

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I knew I missed something - ranged/melee behavior, I'm also having a problem with my ranged characters not moving out of melee and it's quite frustrating. Editing it in.

Not sure whether I should include the tactical camera problems, as this topic is focused on the tactics system specifically.


You have to follow another range character to somewhat avoid this.

#18
Jackal19851111

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I also found the problem is amplified with Vivienne who - if you have her Knight-Enchanter melee ability enabled, will make her charge into melee range to use it - where as I would rather she use it only if she's attacked by melee.



#19
Flaming-Soul

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We need those elaborate tactics system back! Few things are more satisfying than seeing your elaborate tactical plan play out in front of you without even pausing or managing the game once!



#20
Xenluke

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This game needs DA:O tactics and behaviors soon!
Inquisition is a great game but with the current system the most evil threat you have to face is represented by your party! It's so frustrating seeing them doing always the wrong thing....
We just have to hope Bioware fixes this, it's a problem that is keeping most of us from enjoying Inquisition.