104 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaz Darkbane]

I think it is no secret now that a great deal of people are frustrated with the lack of praise support and tank characters are getting at the moment. There are calls for nerfs left and right for any class capable of doing damage well and turning into one giant whine fest here on the forums. It is a precious balance trying to make everyone feel involved. If you have a support character like a keeper throwing out barriers throughout the match then they likely don't feel the impact their actions are making for the rest of the team, and as such won't feel like they are making a difference and not have as much fun. The same goes for a tank like the Legionnaire, when you taunt an entire groups of enemies to you and your team destroys them you won't feel the impact your action made for the rest of team, even if your being there was absolutely essential in that fight going well. Don't even get me started on the Templar. What can make them feel more involved and essential in our fights against the foes of the Inquisition? This thread is dedicated to them, the people who work behind the scenes to insure we can nuke down that group of enemies and giving them the much needed recognition they deserve at the end of a match. 

 

Well for starters we should implement more assist medals at the end of a match to properly give support and tank character Some credit at the end of a match, just some sort of counter of number of enemies taunted or damage blocked due to barrier/taunted damage and appropriate exp for those medals. Even if during that match you feel like all your doing is throwing out unneeded shields, seeing that counter of how much damage your saved teammates from would certainly be a giant ego boost. 

 

Looking for more suggestions here, or even just words of praise for that clutch last second barrier that saved you from Demon Commanders KO or the Legionnaire who kept the him in one spot away from your team for the entire fight. Show some appreciation

[Scorpio989]

I honestly think it's the score that's to blame to begin with. I don't know why but there seems to be some insistence by developers to make every new co-op game competitive. The reward for supporting your team should be clearing a level not a score.

[Chuggernaut]

I love Tank.

[Beerfish]

Seeing as I can't for the life of me even read the scores on the horrid colour scheme BioWare chose the end scores don't matter much.

[coldflame]

I love Tank.

Me too.

[DakotaCoty]

I honestly think it's the score that's to blame to begin with. I don't know why but there seems to be some insistence by developers to make every new co-op game competitive. The reward for supporting your team should be clearing a level not a score.

 

Completely agree, this is also one of the reasons why Arcane Warrior is so popular, easy to play, very user-friendly and can be #1 on the scoreboards most of the time allowing them to gain 100% of the total experience of the party, which on threatening can be anywhere from 4,500-5,500 (I think). 

[K1LL SPLATTER]

I mainly play elementalist with heavy use of barriers for team survival. When i play with a decent group that communicates we are pretty much god mode on threatening. They deffinately appreciate my shields and i appreciate the tank, wether he is being played as a legionare, templar, arcane warrior, reaver etc. Dps is also very appreciated when they wait for the team and we clear out rooms very quickly as a group.

Op is correct. When i play with randoms that do not communicate, its like a freakin free for all. People rush off to kill as fast as possible for the extra kills to get that gold medal. They open chest doors befors the whole team is ready. Which usually leads to aggro getting pulled from multiple rooms, and then deaths of team mates.

The scoring doesnt really bother me a lot. I understand when i did my job and with a good team everyone understands barriers, good tanking, good dps is why the team won. Doesnt the whole team share all the xp anyway? It would be nice to have tank or support titles and backgrounds.

I think the real problem is that a lot of players dont understand, or care how the holy trinity is supposed to work. I get that this game doesnt require the holy trinity to be beaten, but it sure plays smooth when its used.

[Robbiesan]

Completely agree, this is also one of the reasons why Arcane Warrior is so popular, easy to play, very user-friendly and can be #1 on the scoreboards most of the time allowing them to gain 100% of the total experience of the party, which on threatening can be anywhere from 4,500-5,500 (I think). 

 

totally.  had a couple of them in some threatening matches as I was working on leveling my Leg, and wow, did those players own.  One round AW scored something like 6000+ XP (iirc 52 staff kills, 49 ability kills), while myself in 2nd, half of that.  AW for the win.

[Shadohz]

A thread requesting acknowledgement for the "work you put in" (or lack thereof). My response: You guys spend too much time reading leader and scoreboards. I don't even read them at the end of the game. I'm looking for the next match.

[Chaz Darkbane]

A thread requesting acknowledgement for the "work you put in" (or lack thereof). My response: You guys spend too much time reading leader and scoreboards. I don't even read them at the end of the game. I'm looking for the next match.

 

The problem here is people are going to look at them, and those who did not perform well on the scoreboard will look for someone to blame. Whether it is the Elementalist who put down a meteor storm on the boss door, or the Reaver/Assassin who ate a Pride Demon for breakfast. This is especially true for support and tank characters, they fully witness the amount of damage that a dps focused class can do but don't consider there own contribution to the kill. Even if you did your role well and tanked the Demon Commander like a boss, you will still find yourself drawing comparisons to other classes.Watching a Reaver go on a rampage and kill a group of enemies you would have just tanked makes them look overly powerful in comparison because that is not your role.

[killsion]

I thoroughly support the inclusion of additional medals and the like. Playing a Keeper and ensuring no one ever takes any damage and at the end of the match only seeing Operation Complete and 15 Staff Kills is a bit disappointing. The game rewards DPS a bit too heavily at the moment.

[Shadohz]

The problem here is people are going to look at them, and those who did not perform well on the scoreboard will look for someone to blame. Whether it is the Elementalist who put down a meteor storm on the boss door, or the Reaver/Assassin who ate a Pride Demon for breakfast. This is especially true for support and tank characters, they fully witness the amount of damage that a dps focused class can do but don't consider there own contribution to the kill. Even if you did your role well and tanked the Demon Commander like a boss, you will still find yourself drawing comparisons to other classes.Watching a Reaver go on a rampage and kill a group of enemies you would have just tanked makes them look overly powerful in comparison because that is not your role.

Any competent player has played all classes at some point and understands how each role is filled. You can tell DURING the game who's not pulling their weight or doing their due diligence. The after-game scoreboard doesn't accurately reflect an archer player who fires too soon before his melee teammate gets into position. Nor does reflect mages who cast stasis/debuff powers that make it so much easier kill off mooks. I had a game with a guy playing Legionnaire. He kept whining about "the keeper not keeping the barriers up" (i.e. me). So after about the 3rd time I told him to "STFU and learn how to play the Legionnaire. I'm drawing more aggro than you are because you're playing like chit. I might be able to keep barriers up if I wasn't tanking for the team." End of the game the scoreboard showed I had double his kills (keep in mind most of the game this guy was complaining and trying to get me kicked). The other two guys vote kicked him out of the lobby afterwards. Now if you were judging from the scoreboard alone, you would swear that this Legionnaire player was tanking the whole time thus his low kill count. But no he was attacking the whole time and was killing at a slow pace AND he was targeting the wrong mooks (focusing primarily on big/hard to kill targets only) and was constantly running into the battles late. Mooks were literally running right by him to come at me and he ignored them.

So this is why I say adding "support medals" is still irrelevant because a bad game may still not be accurately reflected. 

 

I thoroughly support the inclusion of additional medals and the like. Playing a Keeper and ensuring no one ever takes any damage and at the end of the match only seeing Operation Complete and 15 Staff Kills is a bit disappointing. The game rewards DPS a bit too heavily at the moment.

Thus proving my point. If you did your job on the team then don't worry about the after-game stats.

[HowYouSoGudd]

I agree with alot of the points made here.

 

Firstly, exp should be split equally. The way it is designed now only promotes comptetive play. You have ppl rushing ahead to get the most kills and try to do everything themselves just because at the end of the match you get more exp.

 

With my previous point, add new supportive achievements and rewards. Why is there no challenge for allies barried, enemies taunted, enemies CC'ed. Its all enemies killed, x enemies killed, enemies killed with x element, KILL KILL KILL. They've made absolutely no reward for playing a support character.

 

So to wrap this all up, split exp evenly and add new exp achievements at the end of the map that reward supportive play. This way you won't have ppl competing for kills as it would be counterproductive, and if someone gets that 20 kill streak, all party members equally benefit. And adding supportive rewards would make support characters alot more wanted since exp wouldnt necessarily have to be a dps race bc a mixed party would be able to offer similar exp/hr compared to speed running bc they would be getting exp from the support achievements.

[MadMaximoff]

The Major issue with all this in groups right now is Archers are a much bigger threat than Melee since melee (with the exception of Stalkers) can be easily kited thus is actually encourages melees to bee line the Ranged mobs to stop them full drawing.

If ranged mobs weren't putting out such ridiculous damage per shot and melee mobs were more capable of sticking to a target then going straight after the back line wouldn't be done so often.

[Chaz Darkbane]

So this is why I say adding "support medals" is still irrelevant because a bad game may still not be accurately reflected. 

 

Thus proving my point. If you did your job on the team then don't worry about the after-game stats.

 

Actually that pretty much counters your point. He kept barriers up for his team the whole time and got no reward for it. Not everyone can just casually say "I did my job, who cares about the rest" and move on. If you do your job well you should be rewarded for it, and right now that only applies to the dps classes who soak up all the experience from enemies and bonus medals at the end of the match, but the people who help make it happen should be acknowledged as well.

 

If your tank was as bad as you say then he will still being getting no reward even with more medals. If he isn't tanking well he won't get rewarded for enemies taunted or damage blocked like he would be if he was doing well and it allows the support classes to get acknowledgment from the other roles as the end of the match as well. Coming in at the bottom end of the board on a run can result in being kicked or lead to misconceptions that only certain classes are capable of doing work.

[Catastrophy]

Meh, just play the game - I know a good tank and support when I see them.

[killsion]

Meh, just play the game - I know a good tank and support when I see them.

 

Doesn't change that they are receiving less XP than those they are supporting.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Doesn't change that they are receiving less XP than those they are supporting.

Honestly, how much xp are those killstreaks worth? 

 

Over the course of an entire game its not likely to be much, is it?  

[Myala]

Horn of Valor doesn't get assist points or xp for support at all. I did one game where I just did the horn of valor for my team. I had just prestiged her and went straight for that instead of any other abilitys. I ended the match with about 100 xp.

[Dorje Sylas]

Going beyond the score, why is it basically like the Mass Effect 3 MP style scoring of a PURE DAMAGE COUNTER.

 

Seriously? Is the game not tracking ANYTHING else? Things like Damage taken to Barrier, Damage taken to Guard. Number of abilities that "hit" a target. Getting credit for the Buffs you give.

 

If I'm a Tank and I've got the Shield Wall Perk that gives Armor, any Damage my bonus Armor stops for someone should be credited to me as points. Why? Because I'm Helping! I'm doing my job supporting allies.

 

How about "points" for peeling Threat off non-warriors? Or better still how about points for holding AI aggression.

 

Team Fortress 2 has been out for years now, and still has one the handful of team scoring system at actually tracks contributions by Support type classes.

[killsion]

Honestly, how much xp are those killstreaks worth? 

 

Over the course of an entire game its not likely to be much, is it?  

 

I'm frankly utterly baffled at your thought process.

[Shadohz]

I agree with alot of the points made here.

 

Firstly, exp should be split equally. The way it is designed now only promotes comptetive play. You have ppl rushing ahead to get the most kills and try to do everything themselves just because at the end of the match you get more exp.

 

With my previous point, add new supportive achievements and rewards. Why is there no challenge for allies barried, enemies taunted, enemies CC'ed. Its all enemies killed, x enemies killed, enemies killed with x element, KILL KILL KILL. They've made absolutely no reward for playing a support character.

 

So to wrap this all up, split exp evenly and add new exp achievements at the end of the map that reward supportive play. This way you won't have ppl competing for kills as it would be counterproductive, and if someone gets that 20 kill streak, all party members equally benefit. And adding supportive rewards would make support characters alot more wanted since exp wouldnt necessarily have to be a dps race bc a mixed party would be able to offer similar exp/hr compared to speed running bc they would be getting exp from the support achievements.

Party divvy shouldn't be equal. It has nothing to do with Support kits being "less equal". Some players don't pull their own weight. Be that in dps, support or game knowledge. Using my above game example, why should the Legionnaire guy be reward the same as me if you tanked and out-dps him the entire match. I was working twice as hard and he was just... there. Being rewarded for actual tangible things such as "amount of damage absorbed by shields" and "number of stunned enemies" as XP rewards for support classes is a very valid request. I just find some of the comment asking for a boy scout merit badge of participation kind of funny. Next thing you know the Leprechauns (looters) will want a badge for number of vases broken in a single game. lol I don't pay attention to the XP and gold loot. I get what I get and I keep it pushing. Next game please.

[TheThirdRace]

Why you're fixating on the score? Why does the manner XP is gained matters so much to you?

 

At the end of the match, we all get the full amount of XP, being first or last on the scoreboard doesn't change a thing. If you did your job, no good player will criticize you. It's not rare for an Assasin or an Alchemist to be dead last on the scoreboard but still be very valuable.

 

The only reason the score is more about kills than anything else is because it's the only mechanic Bioware can "control" for the promotions. If they did give lots of XP for something else, you could promote faster than anticipated and they can't control it. Granted, it could be a better system, but it's not horrible.

[TheThirdRace]

Party divvy shouldn't be equal. It has nothing to do with Support kits being "less equal". Some players don't pull their own weight. Be that in dps, support or game knowledge. Using my above game example, why should the Legionnaire guy be reward the same as me if you tanked and out-dps him the entire match. I was working twice as hard and he was just... there.

Stop right there... this is exactly what shouldn't happen. You just foster the douche bag attitude of Call of Duty, get out of here please we don't need that thank you.

This is a COOP game, if you can't tolerate your teammates, play solo, with friends or kick the annoying ones. There's no place here for elitism BS.

[KalGerion_Beast]

I'm frankly utterly baffled at your thought process.

Why?  XP is shared, except for kill streaks anyway (never tested it, but i swear i remember reading it off a card in the loading screen).  Assuming this is true, you arent recieving much less xp in the scope of one game than the dps'ers, unless kill streak xp is much larger than I am anticipating.