Why? XP is shared, except for kill streaks anyway (never tested it, but i swear i remember reading it off a card in the loading screen). Assuming this is true, you arent recieving much less xp in the scope of one game than the dps'ers, unless kill streak xp is much larger than I am anticipating.
However small or large it is should not be the issue. The issue is an inherent inequality in the system unfairly giving greater rewards to DPS classes over tank/support roles.
Stop right there... this is exactly what shouldn't happen. You just foster the douche bag attitude of Call of Duty, get out of here please we don't need that thank you.
This is a COOP game, if you can't tolerate your teammates, play solo, with friends or kick the annoying ones. There's no place here for elitism BS.
I hate for FPS made for kiddies as much as I hate PvP'rs under the age of... any. You insult me by even mentioning that game in my Internet presence. A COOP doesn't mean EVERYBODY gets a fair share. It's called Party Divvy for a reason. Been in RPGs as long as I been playing or coding them. There's nothing elitist about that. There's pros and cons to having a equal-split and XP-split system. One of those reasons devs choose on system or another is to discourage team leeching (assuming you bothered to read Amelia's response to their crash issues). Of course if you bothered to read my other comments just above the one you're replying to then you wouldn't have even tried to approach me with this nonsensical retort. I've left all kinds of commentary (even a guide) on "appropriate play" (when I kick, how I play, what I look out for, things I care about). How am I fostering an elitist attitude by telling people to stop worrying about their score. lmao faux-outrage. CTFD.
Party divvy shouldn't be equal. It has nothing to do with Support kits being "less equal". Some players don't pull their own weight. Be that in dps, support or game knowledge. Using my above game example, why should the Legionnaire guy be reward the same as me if you tanked and out-dps him the entire match. I was working twice as hard and he was just... there. Being rewarded for actual tangible things such as "amount of damage absorbed by shields" and "number of stunned enemies" as XP rewards for support classes is a very valid request. I just find some of the comment asking for a boy scout merit badge of participation kind of funny. Next thing you know the Leprechauns (looters) will want a badge for number of vases broken in a single game. lol I don't pay attention to the XP and gold loot. I get what I get and I keep it pushing. Next game please.
As previously mentioned in the system I was describing (and what you were so against) he would be rewarded for what he did do, not what he didn't do. We don't just slap the guy with 10,000 exp for being in the party, but simply more types of assists then just damage assists to result in exp gains. If I was able to get a 20+ killstreak because I was given a barrier and the Legionnaire kept all enemies focused on him, then I would like both the Legionnaire and mage in question to share in the experience gained rather than giving me everything just because those guys opened up an opportunity for me to take.
As previously mentioned in the system I was describing (and what you were so against) he would be rewarded for what he did do, not what he didn't do. We don't just slap the guy with 10,000 exp for being in the party, but simply more types of assists then just damage assists to result in exp gains. If I was able to get a 20+ killstreak because I was given a barrier and the Legionnaire kept all enemies focused on him, then I would like both the Legionnaire and mage in question to share in the experience gained rather than giving me everything just because those guys opened up an opportunity for me to take.
Comment made by Shadohz
Being rewarded for actual tangible things such as "amount of damage absorbed by shields" and "number of stunned enemies" as XP rewards for support classes is a very valid request.
Comment made by Shadohz
Being rewarded for actual tangible things such as "amount of damage absorbed by shields" and "number of stunned enemies" as XP rewards for support classes is a very valid request.
Oh no I am very aware of what you said and that you acknowledged the idea was a valid request. I was simply restating that is what I was talking about from the get-go (which you were against originally, saying support medals were irrelevant. Emphasis on were being past-tense) I apologize if it came off like I ignored that part there.
Good idea Chaz. I would like to see that. I usually play DPS classes & would like to see tanks etc. Get credit.
What would we credit the alchemist for though? Haha j.k. - not really.
Uhm...well crap...making the map more pretty to look at. There you go, the 'level decoration' medal.
Oh no I am very aware of what you said and that you acknowledged the idea was a valid request. I was simply restating that is what I was talking about from the get-go (which you were against originally, saying support medals were irrelevant. Emphasis on were being past-tense) I apologize if it came off like I ignored that part there.
Uhm...well crap...making the map more pretty to look at. There you go, the 'level decoration' medal.
"Placed atmospheric green fog next to a beautiful rainbow of ground skittles 20 times...GOLD MEDAL!"
"Placed atmospheric green fog next to a beautiful rainbow of ground skittles 20 times...GOLD MEDAL!"
I'm glad my friend isn't the only one that calls then skittles xD
This is literally the opposite of what I expected looking at the topic as support XP gains are enormous on the abilities that proc them. I do agree that some abilities that don't proc XP should be fixed (looking at you knock-out bomb) I can understand why some don't as you get far more XP from skills that do proc support XP than you do from damage XP. Horn of Valor is undeniably useful, but it would be extremely easy to keep your team buffed for every single kill, granting loads of XP without any sort of meaningful gameplay behind. Yes, you're helping your team, but all you're really doing is a pressing a hot key, every time it goes off cool down without much thought.
Compare this to shieldwall, which grants HUGE amounts of support XP. I guess I've sort "mained" Templar and it is very easy to get top score and definitely top two on the scoreboard after promoting and at level 1 on threatening. Even in a group with level 20 eles and arcane warriors. The difference though, between shieldwall and horn of valor is the meaningful gameplay involved, i.e. balancing guard vs. stamina so you can keep yourself at the front, as well as careful positioning as getting flanked means getting killed.
So on the skills that proc support XP, I think the XP given is sufficient, if not slightly too generous, but I agree that more support skills should proc for XP, and if we're worried about scoreboard balance make it so that more passive gameplay support skills reward less than skills like shieldwall.
In my personal experience, I think its the assassin and alchemist that really don't have their contributions displayed adequately. My assassin build focuses on chaining executions off of Deathblow resets so I get many kills and high killstreaks, but even with 40 or so kills, I rarely score than 3k on threatening, since assassins have no access to support XP, have very little aoe and have to chase enemies around to deal damage, resulting in far fewer enemies tagged and there far less xp (while requiring more effort than the ranged classes).
I typed this on my phone at work so errors were most like made.
i said it during the early days of ME3MP as well.....get rid of the scoring.
are there assist medals in DAIMP? ...err support?
are there assist medals in DAIMP? ...err support?
No, that is the primary thing we are calling for.
There are definitely support stats that could be tracked easily that would be interesting to see. Others have mentioned damage absorbed by barrier/guard as one, or number of stunned enemies. I think tracking enemy seconds of aggro might be interesting as well, or aggro-swapped (every time a tank draws aggro away should generate support XP, right?)
It'd be interesting to compile a list of "useful" trackable metrics...
A thread requesting acknowledgement for the "work you put in" (or lack thereof). My response: You guys spend too much time reading leader and scoreboards. I don't even read them at the end of the game. I'm looking for the next match.
Whether you see it or not, where you fall on the scoreboard determines how much XP you get out of the game so it is rather important. And that's the real problem. If everyone participated as much as they were able, everyone should receive the same reward.
From my experience, a good supporting Keeper dominates the leader board. Is 1st almost every time in a room of equally skilled players.
Also from my experience, even a GREAT tanking Legionnaire will be at the bottom of the leader board in a room of equally skilled players.
Ultimately, why does it even matter?
I judge based off how easy was the clear. It is obvious when the Legionnaire refuses to run into the group of mob or taunt enemies or control the enemies. Likewise it is obvious when an Archer is bad, draws the aggro and kisses the dirt. It is also obvious when everyone knows what they are doing and you breeze through the enemies.
In my experience, the keeper definitely gets points for "support". How? I don't know.
Why does it matter anyway?
Oh no I am very aware of what you said and that you acknowledged the idea was a valid request. I was simply restating that is what I was talking about from the get-go (which you were against originally, saying support medals were irrelevant. Emphasis on were being past-tense) I apologize if it came off like I ignored that part there.
No need to apologize. I still meant what I said by that. 
I believe SOME of what you said is a valid request for this game. The way that the game parses XP seems pretty sufficient. However a less flippant and more detailed response is obviously in need.
This conversation on loot divvy is old as dirt. I've seen multiple loot systems come and go. No matter how you set it up, there's always someone complaining about how it works out for them or someone abusing the hell out of it. Level-based loot was terrible because it gave the most divvy to whoever had the highest level in a party. Equal-split systems ALWAYS brings out the leechers (never fails). ES system also encourages power-leveling, which disrupts the "natural" leveling progression and encourages reckless noobie behavior. ES systems are the ones most abused by veteran players as well. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to reset or ban players for using AFK kits or multiple accounts so they could power up their alts (which they often turned around and sold). A divvy system that gives a base level of XP (participation score if you will) and the rest parsed out as damage-dealt is as close to "fair" as you can get. Damage-dealt is about the only common tangible value between all the classes.
This whole fight about "support XP" (that I recall) started because of Cleric players; at least those were the ones doing the most complaining. No matters how many changes to cast times and offensive skills buffs they got, they were always trying to milk more XP out of party divvy. "The mages and fighters are getting all the XP, but I'm the one doing the healing, buffing, and protection spells". Essentially they were trying to get their non-damage skills to be accounted for in the divvy. However if you did that for them then you'd have to do the same for F/M which would then mean they'd probably get even more XP divvy. Clerics weren't designed to be damage-dealers, so they were harder to level but that's also why they had some of the best spells in the game.
This is why your post doesn't surprise me and I said "support roles are irrelevant" because at the end of the argument the other classes will want the same benefit of non-damage skills being accounted for as well. Each class has unique skills sets that set them apart. If the game is semi-balanced then the poor damage-dealers will make up in special skills that the other classes don't have. If you can make a legitimate argument that a particular skill or spell should be considered a "damager" then so be it. If you think your buff or protection should be included then forget about it (for the reason previously mentioned).
Honestly I have no idea why DAMP and ME3MP uses what appears to be a Team Deathmatch PvP scoreboard. I just have to assume that if they didn't detail out how they divvied XP then they'd get a bunch of people asking why they only got Y amount of XP when someone else got Z or how the divvy system worked. As I said already the current system is pretty sufficient. If it were completely out of balance then I'd been one of the first to write a complaint or buff request about it. It's not productive for high level characters to play Routine (noobie zone) because the XP gap is rather large and there is little payout. Noobies are almost guaranteed to level after every game up until about Lvl 10 or so despite their performance (which is how it should be). Threatening and Perilous are hard enough to discourage low-level players (despite their gear) from trying to play them (I've been kicked a couple times myself for trying). Many of the arguments I've seen made are hollow.
Here are the top two reasons why my "support kit" keeps coming in first/second while yours is coming in fourth:
1. Threat assessment - Kill the ranged fighters and foot solders first, then target the boss(es). While the other players are too busy trying to chip away at a large target, I'm racking up kills taking out archers/ranged fighters and foot soldiers. If anyone bothered to read my "How to properly loot and treasure room raid" guide then you'd know this already. Not only am I getting the most kills because of it, but I'm also protecting my teammates who are to.. umm what's the word I'm looking for... "unpolished" to realize they should be using a different battle tactic.
2. Gears - You're getting outscored because everyone else has better gear than you. Of course some are going to say it's the fault of the RNG store. Alot of times it's not. I've given enough tips to players on how to get better gear faster (how/when to salvage, style of play, when to spend, what to compose etc), but they don't listen.
At the end of the day, the scoreboard only matters because you're spending too much time focused on it instead of just playing. Enjoy the game.
Whether you see it or not, where you fall on the scoreboard determines how much XP you get out of the game so it is rather important. And that's the real problem. If everyone participated as much as they were able, everyone should receive the same reward.
See above comment.
I get the highest score most of the time regardless of my role, so I think the effort of support classes ARE considered into the final score. The keepers, for example, gets support points from mobs killed by allies with barriers. Not sure how I got high score for tanks but I think it's probably the damage I took or block.
Also, shared xp as it might be, the actual xp each person gets seems to be slightly different still. Once in a threatening room my archer and a keeper promoted at the same time, yet after a few rounds the archer reached lv 8 before the keeper.
Also, shared xp as it might be, the actual xp each person gets seems to be slightly different still. Once in a threatening room my archer and a keeper promoted at the same time, yet after a few rounds the archer reached lv 8 before the keeper.
Because the archer got more kills.
Because the archer got more kills.
Not supposed to work in that way. All xp are supposed to be shared between all characters, meaning keepers are supposed to get xp for every kill an archer made.
Still, "supposed to be" is far from "is".
Not supposed to work in that way. All xp are supposed to be shared between all characters, meaning keepers are supposed to get xp for every kill an archer made.
Still, "supposed to be" is far from "is".
Have you somehow just completely missed every post in this thread?
Whether you see it or not, where you fall on the scoreboard determines how much XP you get out of the game so it is rather important. And that's the real problem. If everyone participated as much as they were able, everyone should receive the same reward.
Also, shared xp as it might be, the actual xp each person gets seems to be slightly different still. Once in a threatening room my archer and a keeper promoted at the same time, yet after a few rounds the archer reached lv 8 before the keeper.
Because the archer got more kills.
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