104 réponses à ce sujet

[killsion]

 

Whether you're first or last on the scoreboard doesn't matter the slightest, you get the XP of all the players combined together. Which in turn makes the "I should get more XP for support actions" moot to an extent. If "support actions" were to get more XP, the whole party would benefit but the design for the time required to max a character (level 20) would need a complete rebalance. Since it doesn't matter who actually earned the XP because it's 100% shared, it's much simpler to keep things as they are and focus on bug fixing and adding content.

 

Except this is false.

 

All those medals aimed to DPS increase their XP gain beyond the party shared amount. That is the issue. Support has no means of obtaining those medals. Either make it truly shared, or give additional support/assist medals.

[J. Peterman]

Except this is false.

 

All those medals aimed to DPS increase their XP gain beyond the party shared amount. That is the issue. Support has no means of obtaining those medals. Either make it truly shared, or give additional support/assist medals.

 

This hasn't been my experience.

[TheThirdRace]

Except this is false.
 
All those medals aimed to DPS increase their XP gain beyond the party shared amount. That is the issue. Support has no means of obtaining those medals. Either make it truly shared, or give additional support/assist medals.

This is false, I get the full amount no matter what. Your eyes or your feelings are deceiving you...

[killsion]

It has been in mine, and xlm stated of both a newly promoted keeper and archer, the archer hit lvl 8 first.

 

If XP was truly shared equally, how would that be possible?

 

Of course, we could outright test this. Hop into a game with a friend, play a Keeper, focusing mostly on support, have your friend play something that utterly destroys everything and dominates leaderboards in kills. At the end of the match, compare the XP score received at the end. It won't necessarily confirm or deny, but it beats anecdotes.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

It has been in mine, and xlm stated of both a newly promoted keeper and archer, the archer hit lvl 8 first.

 

If XP was truly shared equally, how would that be possible?

 

Of course, we could outright test this. Hop into a game with a friend, play a Keeper, focusing mostly on support, have your friend play something that utterly destroys everything and dominates leaderboards in kills. At the end of the match, compare the XP score received at the end. It won't necessarily confirm or deny, but it beats anecdotes.

 

It is easier to test than that.  Have 2 newly promoted level 1's.  Have 1 not move and leech.  Have the other go do work.  Compare their levels afterwards.  Are they the same or did the character that put in more work have more exp?

[TheThirdRace]

It has been in mine, and xlm stated of both a newly promoted keeper and archer, the archer hit lvl 8 first.
 
If XP was truly shared equally, how would that be possible?
 
Of course, we could outright test this. Hop into a game with a friend, play a Keeper, focusing mostly on support, have your friend play something that utterly destroys everything and dominates leaderboards in kills. At the end of the match, compare the XP score received at the end. It won't necessarily confirm or deny, but it beats anecdotes.

I've played with friends on a 4 Assassin team squad on Threatening. My role was to run to the last room and aggro everything I could so all enemies would run to them. I made exactly 0 kills in that game, I made absolutely 0 support action either. Still, I got the full XP.

Your example might also be wrong. Maybe they didn't promote at the same time. Maybe one had more XP from a previous match while still being level 1. Sometimes XP isn't given at all due to multiple glitches (connections, game crash, etc.). The XP system is 100% shared, doesn't mean it actually is bug free... welcome to the wonderful world of "Bioware's simple mechanics not working as they should".

[Anzer]

Medals at the end of the match provide bonus xp to the individual character, which is not shared with the party. That is why you may notice the AW that got gold staff and ability kills levels up slightly faster than your keeper who only got bronze staff kills. It is the end of match medals that cause a disparity in xp between the party and that is why some people who play support are unhappy that there aren't "Taunted 50 enemies", "Revived teammates 5 times" or "Prevented 10000 damage" medals.

 

EDIT: 'Cause "gold gold staff" just didn't make much sense.

[LemurFromTheId]

 

If "support actions" were to get more XP, the whole party would benefit but the design for the time required to max a character (level 20) would need a complete rebalance.

 

Right. Because it's super important our characters level up at the exact speed they currently do. And adjusting a global XP modifier to compensate is such an astronomically complicated endeavour.

[TheThirdRace]

Right. Because it's super important our characters level up at the exact speed they currently do. And adjusting a global XP modifier to compensate is such an astronomically complicated endeavour.

It's certainly not important to me

But I guess Bioware/EA don't view this the same way as we do. The faster you level, the faster you're gonna promote and this has an impact on your stats (cunning, willpower, constitution) which then makes it faster to clear the map, which then give you more gold/hour, which then reduce their income for the store... Not to mention this screw over the Prestige Leaderboard which will anger dedicated fans.

There's probably an XP modifier for difficulties, but it's most likely not affecting which actions give XP to begin with. If they went ahead and added more actions that give XP, my guess is they'd reduce the global XP modifier but this has some consequences. With a lower XP modifier, if you don't work as a team you'll get much lower XP while if you work as a team then you'll get at most the same amount of XP as you would now with no change. How does it benefit us then? We don't get more XP as a team, we get less content because they're working on that instead of new content and we just get to see our character to have 1 or 2 extra medals on the scoreboard. I say we might be better not kicking the hornet's nest...

[TheThirdRace]

Medals at the end of the match provide bonus xp to the individual character, which is not shared with the party. That is why you may notice the AW that gold gold staff and ability kills levels up slightly faster than your keeper who only got bronze staff kills. It is the end of match medals that cause a disparity in xp between the party and that is why some people who play support are unhappy that there aren't "Taunted 50 enemies", "Revived teammates 5 times" or "Prevented 10000 damage" medals.

I see... too bad nobody could say it as clear you did. Up until now it was all about ego and taps on the back, which is freaking childish and ridiculous.

If this is really what's going on for the XP, I think it was a mistake from Bioware for not making it 100% shared. This can only lead to people not playing as a team, which is the complete opposite to Bioware's intention. Some might say it was done against leechers, but kicking them out of games and lobbies is already good enough so no need to create a situation where you promote the worst behaviors on players like charging, no team strategy and compete on kills...

Before I change my mind though, how much XP are we talking about here? <500, <1000, <10k, >10k? If people are whining for like 200 XP at the end of a match, I'm gonna say they should be locked up in a mental institution for blowing things out of proportion...

[veramis]

If this is really what's going on for the XP, I think it was a mistake from Bioware for not making it 100% shared. This can only lead to people not playing as a team, which is the complete opposite to Bioware's intention. Some might say it was done against leechers, but kicking them out of games and lobbies is already good enough so no need to create a situation where you promote the worst behaviors on players like charging, no team strategy and compete on kills...

 

I just did about 15 runs in a speed-running team, and it was rather depressing because two people kept on doing everything they could to maximize their score while the other two of us had to solo all of the chest rooms and do all the vases while they kept on running past everything, often not even opening chest rooms for us, and talking over mic about how much their killstreak is. And they weren't immortal, they would fall about once per round, and it'd sometimes interrupt our chest room and vase clearing because we're courteous enough to try to res them instead of letting them go into the fade.

 

Anyway that was by far the worst instance of people trying to maximize their own xp and not caring about picking up gold even though all of us were trying to get gold for equipment. I am not for reducing xp bonus for contributing to the team, but I feel strongly that there must be xp bonus for picking up gold, opening chests, and killing guardians. Everyone will enjoy the game more when they don't have to ruin the game for others in order to maximize their xp, or compensate for people trying to maximize xp by spending all of their own time doing the boring gold and chest stuff.

[Anzer]

I see... too bad nobody could say it as clear you did. Up until now it was all about ego and taps on the back, which is freaking childish and ridiculous.

If this is really what's going on for the XP, I think it was a mistake from Bioware for not making it 100% shared. This can only lead to people not playing as a team, which is the complete opposite to Bioware's intention. Some might say it was done against leechers, but kicking them out of games and lobbies is already good enough so no need to create a situation where you promote the worst behaviors on players like charging, no team strategy and compete on kills...

Before I change my mind though, how much XP are we talking about here? <500, <1000, <10k, >10k? If people are whining for like 200 XP at the end of a match, I'm gonna say they should be locked up in a mental institution for blowing things out of proportion...

The only thing I can say for certain is that the bonus xp is based on which tier the medal is (bronze, silver, gold). I'd have to do some heavy testing to see what the actual numbers are, but I have a feeling it's something like 250 for bronze, 500 for silver and 1000 for gold medals. If I feel up to the task, I'll take my freshly promoted AW through a few runs and see what the numerical difference is between what the total party xp is and how much my personal xp goes up. Unless someone else does first....now, were is my pen?

[Shadohz]

I see... too bad nobody could say it as clear you did. Up until now it was all about ego and taps on the back, which is freaking childish and ridiculous.

If this is really what's going on for the XP, I think it was a mistake from Bioware for not making it 100% shared. This can only lead to people not playing as a team, which is the complete opposite to Bioware's intention. Some might say it was done against leechers, but kicking them out of games and lobbies is already good enough so no need to create a situation where you promote the worst behaviors on players like charging, no team strategy and compete on kills...

Before I change my mind though, how much XP are we talking about here? <500, <1000, <10k, >10k? If people are whining for like 200 XP at the end of a match, I'm gonna say they should be locked up in a mental institution for blowing things out of proportion...

That's because the ARE blowing it out of proportion. The biggest "blowout" that I've done in a Routine game was just 1000 XP. I was using a Lvl 16 Alch and the other players were using Lvl 1-4 other kits. I was literally carrying the match and scored about 7 revives the entire match. At one point I think I had a +15 killstreak. That's is not alot. Even if you take my bonus XP and split it between all four of us then that's only 250 XP each (keep in mind that's not including the bonus XP the other team members racked up). In other words, you'd have to work your @$$ off in a Routine match just to get 1000XP difference (which isn't much and not worthwhile for a high-level kit on noobie difficulty).

I just finished two Threatening matches with the following results:

 

lvl 18 -alchemist (me)

lvl 12 AW

lvl 18 alchem

lvl 16 keeper

 

Game 1: AW "outscored" me even though I had the highest number of kill streaks (several +6 killstreaks) and total abilities and weapons kills.

3832 (AW)

3650 (Me)

3073 (keeper)

2832(other alch)

 

Game 2: The Alchemist switched to Lvl 14 Elementalist. Pretty much more of the same. This time however I racked up at least 8 +6 killstreaks. Too bad the AW dropped out before the score tally. As you can see, the Keeper played much better the second time around. Even keeping barriers up better. The first game I died multiple times because he was lagging behind the rest of the group (i.e. Me and the other alchemist were drawing too much aggro). 

3758 (me)

3678 (Keeper)

2887 (elementalist)

Unknown (AW dropped out before a score tally appeared on board)

 

Again no major differences in the score despite the obvious fact that Player 4 had sub-par gear on all his kits (alchemist and elementalist). My alchemist has both Uni 23 Red Birth daggers with Superb Runes. The "support kit" beat him in score both times and also kept up barriers (somewhat).

The players doth protest too much, methinks.

[Shadohz]

The only thing I can say for certain is that the bonus xp is based on which tier the medal is (bronze, silver, gold). I'd have to do some heavy testing to see what the actual numbers are, but I have a feeling it's something like 250 for bronze, 500 for silver and 1000 for gold medals. If I feel up to the task, I'll take my freshly promoted AW through a few runs and see what the numerical difference is between what the total party xp is and how much my personal xp goes up. Unless someone else does first....now, were is my pen?

Beat you to it.

 

Edit: Nvm. You're trying to track specific medal rewards. TBH it really doesn't matter, because the total XP difference can be a good measurement as well.

[killsion]

Multiple indications of clear inequalities.

I have good gear, suck it up and get less XP than me.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Shadohz]

Fixed that for you.

I have WAY BETTER gear than you and I still barely get more XP. Working as intended. If I were able to kill-****** and get two levels to your one level gain then I'd side more with your argument, but that's just not the case. There is no MAJOR difference in the XP differential. You guys are overexaggerating the difference. As I said before, the current system is sufficient. 

[killsion]

I have WAY BETTER gear than you and I still barely get more XP. Working as intended.

 

You got 800-1k more XP than the "badly geared" player and Keeper in game 1.

 

Inequality is inequality. You are proving our point.

[Shadohz]

You got 800-1k more XP than the "badly geared" player and Keeper in game 1.

 

Inequality is inequality. You are proving our point.

Social Justice Warrior blog that way ------>

< ---------this way DAMP Warrior sign-in

Are we playing an RPG here or fighting for equal pay for unequal work? smh You guys are killing me here.

[TheThirdRace]

I just did about 15 runs in a speed-running team, and it was rather depressing because two people kept on doing everything they could to maximize their score while the other two of us had to solo all of the chest rooms and do all the vases while they kept on running past everything, often not even opening chest rooms for us, and talking over mic about how much their killstreak is. And they weren't immortal, they would fall about once per round, and it'd sometimes interrupt our chest room and vase clearing because we're courteous enough to try to res them instead of letting them go into the fade.
 
Anyway that was by far the worst instance of people trying to maximize their own xp and not caring about picking up gold even though all of us were trying to get gold for equipment. I am not for reducing xp bonus for contributing to the team, but I feel strongly that there must be xp bonus for picking up gold, opening chests, and killing guardians. Everyone will enjoy the game more when they don't have to ruin the game for others in order to maximize their xp, or compensate for people trying to maximize xp by spending all of their own time doing the boring gold and chest stuff.

On one hand, I understand what you're saying and I'm not against having XP for "support" actions. I'm all for it to be honest.

On the other hand, your problems are of your own volition. You blame people for not taking the gold and not opening chests while you're speed running... You don't like hearing them talk about their killstreak, yet you don't mute them... You're blaming people for going ahead and dying, yet you play 15 games in a row with those 2 morons... Why?

Also, gold and items are their own rewards, giving XP for that would be unreasonable.

[veramis]

Shadohz, threatening can have significantly greater disparity between players, such as 4-5k for the top player, 1-2k for the other players. If a well-equipped player really runs ahead of the team, avoids stopping for any rooms or vases, tries to MoD double long shot bug everything, etc., he can easily get 60+ kills while the rest of the team has 5-20 kills.

 

Luckily, not too many people are @$$hole enough to try to meta-game like this, but as more people get griffons and become aware that there is little self-gain to help the team loot and much potential self-gain for killing everything, it will become an increasingly worse problem.

 

Again, I am not suggesting that xp should be reduced for killing mobs, at least not directly. Rather, xp should be given to people for doing chests, vases, and guardians, such that people are rewarded for their contribution to looting in this game. This will allow people who really like to run around killing things to keep running around killing things, and those who like to take it easy and do vases and such to do so, and most importantly, it will incentivize people to stop splitting apart from each other.

 

Here is a picture I took to show a friend how broken reaver was, but I'm posting it to show you just how much xp difference and disparity in kills there can be if someone wanted to do so. This was after I had found a level 22 rare greataxe, and was so excited that I kept on killing everything before my teammates could. Other than the few games where I went crazy attacking enemies with new weapons, the only time I ever go ahead of my team is to grab aggro, and if I think my teammates can take initial aggro then I am always the last one out doing the vases and chests, because I don't want my teammates to feel bored to death.

 

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Shadohz, threatening can have significantly greater disparity between players, such as 4-5k for the top player, 1-2k for the other players. If a well-equipped player really runs ahead of the team, avoids stopping for any rooms or vases, tries to MoD double long shot bug everything, etc., he can easily get 60+ kills while the rest of the team has 5-20 kills.

 

Luckily, not too many people are @$$hole enough to try to meta-game like this, but as more people get griffons and become aware that there is little self-gain to help the team loot and much potential self-gain for killing everything, it will become an increasingly worse problem.

 

Again, I am not suggesting that xp should be reduced for killing mobs, at least not directly. Rather, xp should be given to people for doing chests, vases, and guardians, such that people are rewarded for their contribution to looting in this game. This will allow people who really like to run around killing things to keep running around killing things, and those who like to take it easy and do vases and such to do so, and most importantly, it will incentivize people to stop splitting apart from each other.

 

Here is a picture I took to show a friend how broken reaver was, but I'm posting it to show you just how much xp difference and disparity in kills there can be if someone wanted to do so. This was after I had found a level 22 rare greataxe, and was so excited that I kept on killing everything before my teammates could. Other than the few games where I went crazy attacking enemies with new weapons, the only time I ever go ahead of my team is to grab aggro, and if I think my teammates can take initial aggro then I am always the last one out doing the vases and chests, because I don't want my teammates to feel bored to death.

 

 

1. ^^ Garbage Keepers.

2.  Routine - Level 22 great axe.

 

The very first time I ever player Keeper I took a level 1 Keeper into threatening, topped the leaderboard and left as a level 8.  I was playing with my friends who are good at this game.  I owe it all to the level 20 staff of the void that RNG blessed me with for never playing as a mage.

[veramis]

1. ^^ Garbage Keepers.

2.  Routine - Level 22 great axe.

 

If a well-equipped person wanted to be an @$$hole and maximize his xp, he could just run way ahead of the team while the team stays back to do the important work of getting loot, and the troll would be rewarded with 2-3x more bonus xp than the other players.

 

Again, all I'm saying is that xp should be awarded to people who loot and do guardians, I'm not trying to take away your precious bonus xp if you actually earned it instead of got it by metagaming.

[veramis]

nm.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

If a well-equipped person wanted to be an @$$hole and maximize his xp, he could just run way ahead of the team while the team stays back to do the important work of getting loot, and the troll would be rewarded with 2-3x more bonus xp than the other players.

 

Again, all I'm saying is that xp should be awarded to people who loot and do guardians, I'm not trying to take away your precious bonus xp if you actually earned it instead of got it by metagaming.

 

I don't care about the xp differences so I'm not really commenting on that here.  You just used that picture to say the Reaver is broken and I'm responding saying that the disparity is due to 2 garbage keepers and you having a level 22 weapon on routine.  The same result could be reached by any class on routine with high level weapons playing with people who are learning how to play. 

 

I have no stance on the xp disparity.  Honestly think that xp differences are only really negligible and I've never once thought about what my score is going to be while running through a dungeon.  The game does give ZERO credit to taunting and controlling the enemies as the legionnaire and that doesn't bother me either.  I've playing with plenty of people who realize that the only reason we cleared Perilous is because I tanked the whole damn thing despite me being dead last on the leaderboard.  

 

I do get why people have an issue with the disparity. 

[TheThirdRace]

 
Your screenshot means absolutely nothing except 1 player can score well over the others. What we really need to know is what is the XP bonus for those extra medals you got. If you only calculate 2454 minus whatever the number is for second place, you're failing at math big time and just don't understand what you're talking about...
 
To calculate the real extent of that "extra" XP from medals, you have to note the XP of each player before playing then note it again after. You add the total XP for the team, then you check if each player got the same amount. If not, compare what the others got and what you get. In this instance, quychac and DHness should have received the same amount while RomaniFox would have slightly higher for his medals and you should have higher for yours.

 

Until someone can provide these numbers, I believe the problem is blown out of proportion.