104 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadohz]

Shadohz, threatening can have significantly greater disparity between players, such as 4-5k for the top player, 1-2k for the other players. 

 

Sorry Veramis but I gotta throw the BS-flag at your game sample. Your "team" shows a clearly skewed gameplay. Only one member has a Staff kill bonus medal (lolbronze) and the rest have Operation Completed medals. You on the other have have 96 weapon kills alone. You just gave a prime example of what would happen if you had 3 leechers on your team doing absolutely nothing. If anything, you are making an argument FOR the XP disparity to exist not against it. It's an invalid argument to say "yeah there's a HUGE disparity in XP divvy. I'm going to prove by having someone leech to act as the control group for the support kit."

[Devtek]

I thoroughly support the inclusion of additional medals and the like. Playing a Keeper and ensuring no one ever takes any damage and at the end of the match only seeing Operation Complete and 15 Staff Kills is a bit disappointing. The game rewards DPS a bit too heavily at the moment.

 

The thing is, the game tracks support but doesn't actually show it at the end via medals.  Playing with a keeper friend while on my reaver.  Getting constant gold / silver kill medals myself.  He gets only the completion medal and maybe whatever the lowest kill with staff medal is and still scores higher than anyone else, because he is a good support player.  The post game just is poor at showing it via medals.

[Anzer]

Anyone know the xp requirements for levels 2 and 3 in MP? Need them for mah maths. I think it's 900 and 1400, but I'm not entirely sure.

[veramis]

Shadohz, as I have said many times, if someone who is well-equipped wanted to be an @$$hole, he only has to run ahead of the team and kill everything, while the rest of the team is busy looting.

 

Just today I did about 15 runs in a row where two archers decided that they should keep on racking up kills while the other two of us did all of the looting, and one of the archers had 60-75 kills, every single game, where I had less than 20 kills, every single game, and on average about 35% of the bonus xp that he had. I'm not a newbie, I was in the top ten leaderboard for a long time until I was overtaken by a lot of people who magically appeared there due to cheats and now sit at ~20th place, and very often I have 2x the score of the next highest player in pug games just by playing normally and doing my share of looting.

 

Let me repeat myself again and again, I am not saying people should lose their xp for killing, but that people should be awarded xp for looting.

 

I know that people really love to argue against strawmen on the forum, so let me restate my position ten times in a row so people can argue about that.

 

1. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

2. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

3. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

4. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

5. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

6. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

7. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

8. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

9. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

10. I think that xp should be awarded to people for looting, do you or don't you agree?

 

Thanks and please try to stop fighting strawmen and answer one of the ten questions I ask above.

[Shadohz]

Anyone know the xp requirements for levels 2 and 3 in MP? Need them for mah maths. I think it's 900 and 1400, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'll help you in a bit. I'm updating the doc sheet currently so I can't start playing yet.

[III Poison III]

I finish top 90% of the time anyway no matter what class/role I play. Isn't this really a get good at the game thread? I honestly tried to word that as less deuchy as I could and failed miserably. Seems to me if you're at the top then you've earned the xp you've got.

[Anzer]

I'll help you in a bit. I'm updating the doc sheet currently so I can't start playing yet.

'preciate it. I'll try leveling a different fresh 1 to see if I can track it quick enough at the end screen. I'm about 95% certain level 2 xp required is 900, but I'm only 50% for level 3.

[veramis]

On one hand, I understand what you're saying and I'm not against having XP for "support" actions. I'm all for it to be honest.

On the other hand, your problems are of your own volition. You blame people for not taking the gold and not opening chests while you're speed running... You don't like hearing them talk about their killstreak, yet you don't mute them... You're blaming people for going ahead and dying, yet you play 15 games in a row with those 2 morons... Why?

Also, gold and items are their own rewards, giving XP for that would be unreasonable.

 

I am not blaming those people for not taking gold, I am just saying that they were being selfish. I didn't put them on ignore because they are on my friends list. I am not blaming them for going ahead and dying, just stating that in order to show that it wasn't like that they were doing all of that team splitting because they were fully capable of handling it, but because they wanted the extra xp for doing so.

 

Gold and items are already split evenly between teammates. When a person spends time to loot in order to benefit the whole team, why shouldn't his efforts be recognized? The scoring system right now recognizes people for spending time for doing things that benefit the team such as killing, barriering, and maybe for taking damage, but it does not for something which benefits the team.

 

Sigh... so many people putting words in my mouth, telling me I'm saying things I never said. You know, the way some people here argue with me makes me feel more abused than when I am struggling with the retarded controls in DA3SP.

[Shadohz]

Thanks and please try to stop fighting strawmen and answer one of the ten questions I ask above.

Spam. Reported.   

Exact quote from one of my previous comments "I just find some of the comment asking for a boy scout merit badge of participation kind of funny. Next thing you know the Leprechauns (looters) will want a badge for number of vases broken in a single game. lol I don't pay attention to the XP and gold loot. I get what I get and I keep it pushing. Next game please."

 

So my answer to that would be no. It can be made as "fun bonus medal". Gold looting is an optional component. Killing isn't. You can't bypass the game without eventually killing something (unless everyone else is doing the killing while you're hiding). If BioWare create a class with had a familiar AI that did looting (*hint* *hint*) then it would make a gold looting medal obsolete.

[veramis]

Spam. Reported.   

Exact quote from one of my previous comments "I just find some of the comment asking for a boy scout merit badge of participation kind of funny. Next thing you know the Leprechauns (looters) will want a badge for number of vases broken in a single game. lol I don't pay attention to the XP and gold loot. I get what I get and I keep it pushing. Next game please."

 

So my answer to that would be no. It can be made as "fun bonus medal". Gold looting is an optional component. Killing isn't. You can't bypass the game without eventually killing something (unless everyone else is doing the killing while you're hiding). If BioWare create a class with had a familiar AI that did looting (*hint* *hint*) then it would make a gold looting medal obsolete.

 

I'm not for any gold looting medal. I'm only for bonus xp to reflect that it takes time for people to go for loot, so that people are incentivized to both loot and kill, and to prevent people that understand the bonus scoring meta from simply killing everything and leaving their teammates behind to do the boring looting work. I strongly disagree with your argument of "eventually killing something". Yes, obviously people will "eventually" kill something, but what I'm talking about is 20 vs 60 kills, with both players being pretty evenly equipped and experienced, because the person with 20 kills decided to be a team player and loot every room and vase, and the player with 60 kills decided to leave the team behind and engage mobs alone and never touch vases because he understands the mechanics for xp bonus.

 

If there is some new mechanism for obsoleting looting, then sure obviously there's no need for any form of incentivizing looting.

[Shadohz]

 

If there is some new mechanism for obsoleting looting, then sure obviously there's no need for any form of incentivizing looting.

There is a fix for that. It's the idea I presented to Amelia and that to create a "Normal, Speedrun, and Loot" game mode in the lobby filter (or just Normal and SR).

[Anzer]

Alright, so the xp to go from level 1 to 2 is 500; from 2 to 3 is 900; from 3 to 4 is 1600; from 4 to 5 is 2100. 

Fresh promoted Assassin, level 1, 0 xp. 

Ran 1 Routine mission to completion. I received 2 bronze medals; Dagger Kills and Routine Completion.

The Experience gains from the party were: 1681 + 764 + 748 + 683 = 3876 xp from the party. After the xp stopped, I sat at 976 xp into level 4. The xp required to get to that should be: 500 + 900 + 1600 + 976 = 3976. So for bronze medals, the bonus xp seems to be 50xp per bronze. I'd like to test to see what the bonus is for silver and gold medals, but that will require more testing than I can put forth right now. 

[diagorias]

To be honest I'd just would rather see personal bonus experience completely gone. Make it party-wide bonus xp. If you would gain medals by opening pots, people will fight over pots and if you would gain medals for dmg absorbed by barrier or by casting barrier, people will start to cast barrier over each other their barriers. They could add some medals only for cosmetic reasons I guess.

[Yvapha]

At the risk of deviating from the current tangent about pots to the OP's question:

 

In some MMOs there is a commendation system for grouped content. Post-match, everyone chooses one other person to give a star/thumbsup/medal/point to someone in the group they thought was the stand-out. This would be completely opt-in and on a timer. Some kind of reward system connected to how many commendations you get would be in place.

 

Of course everyone has subjective ideas on what constitutes an exceptional contribution, but that's okay, over lots of matches trends will appear. This encourages good behaviour, civil conduct over voice chat, etc.

[Zakmonster85]

Enemies taunted isn't a good score to track. Just because you taunted them doesn't mean you had meaningful contribution to the fight (taunt room full of enemies, get killed 2 seconds later because of bad positioning).

 

Damage absorbed by barrier isn't a good score to track either. Arcane Warriors will get even more points than they currently do, and its easy to Barrier yourself (and no one else) and get attacked by mooks, just so you can build up some easy points. Also, there are some group compositions where Barrier is completely pointless, because most enemies are CC-ed all the time, and dead before they can do any damage to the party. In these groups, even the Keeper just spends most of his time doing damage.

 

Revives would be a good score to track, but good groups tend to go without anyone falling, so it's also a bit pointless.

 

My idea is for an Assists badge. Damaging an enemy that someone else ends up killing means you Assisted in the kill. It should give the same amount of XP as Kill badges. This rewards a party that sticks together and coordinates, while also allowing Rogue-classes like the Assassin and Archer to stand out a bit, because they're able to one-shot enemies without anyone's assistance. Maybe there can be a damage threshold before it's considered an Assist (something that's more than a single auto-attack).

[BWEAmelia]

Don't let me derail you all here, there's good discussion going on in this thread. I just wanted to clear up a few basic things about how the XP system works as a baseline:

 

All XP gained in a session is shared, so even though you have different sized bars and contribution or "points" on the end of match screen, all of that has gone to the team. Those bars are merely reflecting what each individual player's contribution towards the total share of the team was. We also have "support" XP for support players on some abilities. For instance when you block an attack from an enemy with shield wall or an ally you have barriered takes damage from an enemy you will gain support XP towards that kill. The intent for this support XP was to offset the XP that damage-dealing classes would gain from clearing the battlefield with damage.

 

Some quick personal thoughts from me:

 

I've been playing a lot of tank, no matter how much I love the Elementalist ( you sassy grape, you ), I keep coming back to Legionnaire and Templar. I really enjoy their role and how needed I feel as a player in that role. It's very empowering to protect the squishes. A large purpose of the end of match screen is to kudos you for all of your accomplishments during the match, however I'm also finding that I wish there more medals on the end of match screen for sword and boarders to represent our specific accomplishments ( and I'm sure other support classes feel similarily ). Its something I've already brought up, but who knows if my begging will go anywhere ; )

 

I don't personally feel support XP needs a buff. I was honestly worried that support classes were generally top of the end of match scoreboard most of the time because of how much support XP a good support can obtain, however it starts to even out near late game when the damage classes have gotten all of their strong damage dealing abilities and passives.

 

The end of match screen was intended ( as I remember ) to introduce a bit of friendly competition in a co-op mode, meaning it shouldn't be there in any way to divide players or incentivize bad behavior for the group. Maybe having the medals give bonus XP to individuals rather than the group is an unintended effect, and I'll follow up on that to see if that is the case.

[J. Peterman]

So I just promoted my keeper and landed in a routine lobby with a level 20 archer who then promoted. At the end of the game, we were both at level 5, but I had 300 more XP, which I'd attribute to the gold staff kill medal (and a bronze killstreak one). 
 

It does appear to not be distributed evenly. I don't think the difference is significant enough to warrant a change though.

[AwesomeBabyLion]

Everyone shares the XP at the end so I don't see the problem. If someone scores higher on the XP table then that person should be thanked and not envied. That person did just land you more XP after all.

 

Reavers are overpowered on Routine and at level 10 should be going threathening. On the higher difficulties the Reaver will not feel as overpowered anymore.

[Shadohz]

Don't let me derail you all here, there's good discussion going on in this thread. I just wanted to clear up a few basic things about how the XP system works as a baseline:

Derail away. Give us all the statistics:
1. The Experience table from Level 1-20.

2. Number of Enemies in a Routine, Threatening and Perilous game.
3. Max amount of XP possible per difficulty.
4. The bonus XP medal requirements and their individual boon.

I'll be more than happy to break down a "worst case scenario". A major problem in the arguments being made is an exaggeration of gameplay and XP distribution. Some are alluding to the individual XP bonus is causing some players to run ahead. They are non-fact based arguments. You guys partially to blame for this thread because there's a lack of clarity on the divvy system and bonus medals given.   

Btw why isn't there a bonus support medal for "Most team saves by spamming 'Get over here' for a threatening non-boss chest"? 
 

[Shahadem]

I finish top 90% of the time anyway no matter what class/role I play. Isn't this really a get good at the game thread? I honestly tried to word that as less deuchy as I could and failed miserably. Seems to me if you're at the top then you've earned the xp you've got.

 

Because no one else contributed to the outcome of that match right?

[Chaz Darkbane]

Don't let me derail you all here, there's good discussion going on in this thread. I just wanted to clear up a few basic things about how the XP system works as a baseline:

 

All XP gained in a session is shared, so even though you have different sized bars and contribution or "points" on the end of match screen, all of that has gone to the team. Those bars are merely reflecting what each individual player's contribution towards the total share of the team was. We also have "support" XP for support players on some abilities. For instance when you block an attack from an enemy with shield wall or an ally you have barriered takes damage from an enemy you will gain support XP towards that kill. The intent for this support XP was to offset the XP that damage-dealing classes would gain from clearing the battlefield with damage.

 

Some quick personal thoughts from me:

 

I've been playing a lot of tank, no matter how much I love the Elementalist ( you sassy grape, you ), I keep coming back to Legionnaire and Templar. I really enjoy their role and how needed I feel as a player in that role. It's very empowering to protect the squishes. A large purpose of the end of match screen is to kudos you for all of your accomplishments during the match, however I'm also finding that I wish there more medals on the end of match screen for sword and boarders to represent our specific accomplishments ( and I'm sure other support classes feel similarily ). Its something I've already brought up, but who knows if my begging will go anywhere ; )

 

I don't personally feel support XP needs a buff. I was honestly worried that support classes were generally top of the end of match scoreboard most of the time because of how much support XP a good support can obtain, however it starts to even out near late game when the damage classes have gotten all of their strong damage dealing abilities and passives.

 

The end of match screen was intended ( as I remember ) to introduce a bit of friendly competition in a co-op mode, meaning it shouldn't be there in any way to divide players or incentivize bad behavior for the group. Maybe having the medals give bonus XP to individuals rather than the group is an unintended effect, and I'll follow up on that to see if that is the case.

 

Thanks for the information as always Keep us updated on the bit with the medals as that seems to be the main cause of distress and difference between exp gains. I am sure if there were support medals or if medals gave bonuses to the entire group there would be a little less competition and envious attitudes towards the dps roles. Normally I tank in every game I play, I love tanking and being the person to start the fight and protect the group. But in comparison to the my Reaver, my Legionnaire levels far too slowly on a per match basis. My theory is that medal awarding bonus exp are the real reason for that problem.

[III Poison III]

Because no one else contributed to the outcome of that match right?

Fair point, but what I'm saying is if I constantly finish top no matter what class I play then why cant others when it's obviously skill based? That's my point. So if I'm doing most of the work no matter what role I play then I want the XP I've earned. There's nothing wrong with that is there? Same as when I get grouped with a really good AW and he gets 90 staff kills and 65 ability kills and finishes top, he deserves his xp.

[Sir Jessku]

If you place 4th you should lose xp.

[TheThirdRace]

I'm only for bonus xp to reflect that it takes time for people to go for loot, so that people are incentivized to both loot and kill...

It's not like looting is already incentivized by items and store chests, am I right!!!

[BWEAmelia]

Derail away. Give us all the statistics:
1. The Experience table from Level 1-20.

2. Number of Enemies in a Routine, Threatening and Perilous game.
3. Max amount of XP possible per difficulty.
4. The bonus XP medal requirements and their individual boon.

I'll be more than happy to break down a "worst case scenario". A major problem in the arguments being made is an exaggeration of gameplay and XP distribution. Some are alluding to the individual XP bonus is causing some players to run ahead. They are non-fact based arguments. You guys partially to blame for this thread because there's a lack of clarity on the divvy system and bonus medals given.   

Btw why isn't there a bonus support medal for "Most team saves by spamming 'Get over here' for a threatening non-boss chest"? 
 

 

Haha, well one reason for that support medal not existing is that now you won't be able to discern a cursed chest from a non-cursed chest!

 

I unfortunately can't provide you with stats for those questions, our design guru would be best to answer those, and also the person who would decide if they want them answered. The answer to #3 will be a bit variable because you get bonus XP for reviving teammates, and depending on how well each team member contributes to clearing the waves the XP total will be different.