88 réponses à ce sujet

[Adynata]

Not all the romance scenes have nudity, but I'm surprised the OP suggested that romancing in a game would be a hindrance to marrying or dating. That's like saying that shallow movie romances will ruin my concept of love.  This attitude would lock you out of any game or story with a love line. I LOVE Pride and Prejudice, but the book has not made me hold out for my own Mr. Darcy.

[In Exile]

Not all the romance scenes have nudity, but I'm surprised the OP suggested that romancing in a game would be a hindrance to marrying or dating. That's like saying that shallow movie romances will ruin my concept of love.  This attitude would lock you out of any game or story with a love line. I LOVE Pride and Prejudice, but the book has not made me hold out for my own Mr. Darcy.

 

Twilight hasn't wrecked teens ability to date despite endorsing stalking, so I'm sure DA:I will not wreck them either. 

[Asch Lavigne]

I had a holiday job at Gamestop a few years ago and the lack of concern, or even caring, about what parents were buying their children was astounding.

 

We had to inform the parent when they were obviously buying a game for a kid that was younger than the ESRB rating, and I remember this one mother came in to buy her pre-teen son the new Call of Duty, and when I asked her if it was ok to buy an M rated game for her kid (because we need to cover our butts so parents don't come in and yell at us for selling certain things to their kids, though that happens anyways) she demanded to know why the game was rated "M" and when I told her and showed her the freakin' box, she went ballistic on her kid right in the store. It wasn't his fault lady, it was yours.

 

Personally, the swearing was far more offensive to me then seeing Cassandra's boobs.

[sch1986]

I don't really see why you are worried about it now... For all you know your future kids would rather play baseball.

[Vox Draco]

Don't know about Germany, but it's not okay in France.

 

Just watch out for the three big letters "F K K", and you might see even more than boobies ... and you might enjoy the sight of tasteful bikinis and swim-shorts after this.

 

I sometimes wish german laws wouldn't make it that hard for mature players like me to get their hands on uncensored indexed materials, though it got a bit better by now (Still surprised we can buy Dead Space, and they even pulled Doom from the list two or three years ago! And I am speaking about the original Doom ..^^)

 

Though I have no kids I don't see much problems with youths seeing some naked skin in a game like Dragon Age or Witcher. And hey, lets be honest here: As soon as they actually are old enough to know what boobs are and why watching them makes them feel all weird...they also have access to the internet somehow and somewhere, and a whole new world of perversion soon is open to them...DAI will be the minor problem then

[ardarn]

I want to chip in a little.

Anyone who says that an M rated game is ok for children under 17 is very irresponsible. I do agre that based on the maturity of the child we could find exceptions but the average children have absolutely no reason to play a game like this.

Besides the gore or violence, or semi-nudity, that is very trendy to worry about these days, there are many other factors that one need to be concerd about: like the way they represent and show the world in this game, twisted bizarre creatures, or characterisation ( without spoilers, just take a look who you are travelling with, depends on your choise that person could continue the journey without any consequences of his/her act or worse, if u wish u could even chose to kill your travel companion, even if it is the right thing to do ). Or how most of these characters are not simple good and evil but rather grey, or some good guys will do not win whatever you do or the bad guy is bad because of the means he uses but the basic idea is absolutely right.

These are very serious concepts that children need to face later in due time when they MATURE enough, with guidance and enough explanation to make them understand "what is the real world like".

So no there should be absolutely no reason for parental control in this game because WHY WOULD AN 18 YEARS OLD ADULT NEED PARENTAL CONTROL?

And actually I would like to see a little more gore and boobs in this game. And bring back desire demons too. I feel this game got toned down compare to the previous titles. Possibly because of parents who do not take the the parental label seriously on a game.

[Corwyn]

I like how everybody chipped in to helpfully give the OP parenting advice/sanctimonious admonishment.  I feel this has really been a productive discussion.

[Chaos17]

I feel like RPG's today are completely arbitrarily going for Mature ratings without needing to. The gore in this game is not realistic, no body parts are actually cut off, and the language has gone by largely unnoticed. The sole reason this game gets a M rating, is because of the computerized skin.... which adds nothing to the storytelling experience... so why not include an option to completely preclude a younger player from seeing the gore and the skin?

 

If I wanted to, I could dust off my copies of KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, and other RPG's and let my kids experience the fun of the combat, storytelling etc without having to worry about much.

 

As a future parent, I lament that I will have to consign my kids to RPG games made before they were born, until they are late in high school or preparing for college.

 

Its especially frustrating in light of the new multiplayer components to games like ME3 and DAI.

 

Not to mention, romance in games is such a contrite and silly thing. There has not been one game, one dialog, that even comes close to matching the words, the feelings, or the time it takes people to authentically have a meaningful romance. I'm a married man, and if I would have used any of the "romance" options available in games, I'd have never even got the the first date, let alone been able to convince my amazing wife she actually wants to spend her life with this nerd.

 

So we have the option for gore... why not for 'romance'?

Why do you think it's rated : MATURE ? o_o

You know the rating isn't there just to be pretty, lol.

[aTigerslunch]

5th Grade, or was it 4th. I first saw boobs myself. *shrugs*  Was nothing special to me actually. 

 

Violence however was. OP is trolling is all.  

 

 

Kids learn violence without entertainment avenues. Violence is on news, Bugs Bunny having Daffy shot. I am not against these. Just saying. Violence is everywhere. To say they cant play a game due to violence is sketchy to me. When cartoons are violent themselves.

 

I grew up mostly playing outside, knew violence just playing with my cousins and family.......Trying to protect kids from any violence, would require a plastic bubble. Meh, whatever. Halo would be fine for a kid to me. As watched G.I. Joe, already knew shooting stuff.  Think back on your life. How hard was it to see violence, or the static playboy channel?

[b10d1v]

Heaven forbid those potential children ever see skyrim mods!  Games are constantly changing they may become more like a movie by the time your kids are old enough.

[Rannik]

Really? I thought the french sunbathed topless?

 

They certainly do when they come to Spain on vacation...

[Chiramu]

This is adult entertainment. 

 

This is "teenage" entertainment. The writing is based on what teenagers are interested in and is not aimed at a solely adult audience. 

[Panda]

This is "teenage" entertainment. The writing is based on what teenagers are interested in and is not aimed at a solely adult audience. 

 

I think M as 18+ pretty much suggest that this is adult entertainment when it's illegal to sell it even for teenagers.

[Cid Revolution]

There are hundreds of children-friendly games on the market with fantastical themes. Why on earth do you have to "lament" the content of Dragon Age? The last time I checked, Disney and Super Mario didn't have gore or explicit romance. Why not start there?

Even if you removed the gore and romance, DA does not have child-friendly themes. Barbaric warfare, cutthroat political negotiations, religious persecution, racism, and demon worship/possession are hardly appropriate topics for children. Don't tell me you want "parental controls" for those, too. Might as well get the cast from Dragon Tales to replace the archdemons...

[Lianaar]

 

I grew up mostly playing outside, knew violence just playing with my cousins and family.......Trying to protect kids from any violence, would require a plastic bubble. Meh, whatever. Halo would be fine for a kid to me. As watched G.I. Joe, already knew shooting stuff.  Think back on your life. How hard was it to see violence, or the static playboy channel?

Kids learn violence without entertainment avenues. Violence is on news, Bugs Bunny having Daffy shot. I am not against these. Just saying. Violence is everywhere. To say they cant play a game due to violence is sketchy to me. When cartoons are violent themselves.

There is violence in many things, but as you said, violence without entertainment avenues. So no, they don't need to link violence to enjoyment. Alas, I filter what motives and cartoons they can watch too. Just because a content is shown in drawn figures, it doesn't mean it is ok for kids. Violence is to a certaint degree part of human life, but you don't need to toss it at your own kids unfiltered. The point is to teach them how to deal with it, not to let them just go and enjoy the heck out of it. Alas, my kids don't watch the news either yet. This doesn't mean they must be unaware. But knowing about a thing and being entirely exposed to it is not the same.

 

On that note, table top RPG, or various board games, or some mixture of it can be found for kids they'd love and enjoy and thus learn about RPG and its merits with full filter of the parent. Role playing is the very nature of children after all. Close 3 kids together (somewhere between 3 and 13) and you'll see them starting to RP in their own setting pretty soon.

[Corwyn]

I think M as 18+ pretty much suggest that this is adult entertainment when it's illegal to sell it even for teenagers.

That's a pretty poor indication of it's target audience and you know it.  I'm not knocking the game I enjoy it and I'm 32 but I'm not who it's aimed at.

[Panda]

That's a pretty poor indication of it's target audience and you know it.  I'm not knocking the game I enjoy it and I'm 32 but I'm not who it's aimed at.

 

Umm it's not. If the game is 18+ it's target audience can't be anything but adults. It wouldn't make sense to target game for teenagers that's illegal of them to buy and play.

[SwobyJ]

I want to chip in a little.

Anyone who says that an M rated game is ok for children under 17 is very irresponsible. I do agre that based on the maturity of the child we could find exceptions but the average children have absolutely no reason to play a game like this.

Besides the gore or violence, or semi-nudity, that is very trendy to worry about these days, there are many other factors that one need to be concerd about: like the way they represent and show the world in this game, twisted bizarre creatures, or characterisation ( without spoilers, just take a look who you are travelling with, depends on your choise that person could continue the journey without any consequences of his/her act or worse, if u wish u could even chose to kill your travel companion, even if it is the right thing to do ). Or how most of these characters are not simple good and evil but rather grey, or some good guys will do not win whatever you do or the bad guy is bad because of the means he uses but the basic idea is absolutely right.

These are very serious concepts that children need to face later in due time when they MATURE enough, with guidance and enough explanation to make them understand "what is the real world like".

So no there should be absolutely no reason for parental control in this game because WHY WOULD AN 18 YEARS OLD ADULT NEED PARENTAL CONTROL?

And actually I would like to see a little more gore and boobs in this game. And bring back desire demons too. I feel this game got toned down compare to the previous titles. Possibly because of parents who do not take the the parental label seriously on a game.

 

I loved all this stuff as a teen. Even, to a degree, as a pre-teen.

 

It was my single digit years that I cowered at every remotely scary/violent/sexy/whatever thing.

 

After that, I loved it. Not because I was even fascinated by it or anything, but because it added a weight to what was happening that the media that my parents (well my aunt and uncle who raised me) just didn't offer. I wanted death to mean death, violence to mean violence, sex to mean sex, so that the messages in a story didn't get watered down.

 

But I was also considered gifted since Grade 7ish, so I dunno, maybe that had to do with it. Still, I gravitated to M/R rated material rather early on, and it wasn't due to peer pressure or the lure of the forbidden or whatever. I wanted the 'real world' (in terms of subject matter) ASAP.

 

And now as a 25 year old, I still think too much media is watered down. There's so much depth to go, and I want to be alive for it to be more popular, instead of us having the so-tired debates about violence and sexuality.

[Phentos]

OP hasn't come back. Was kind of looking forward to a debate. Whatever, I'll bite.

 

If a future parent is paranoid about having their kids see CG boobs in a game, a game that also features rampant "violence and gore" (bear with me here). Well they should reevaluate how they're going to raise said kids. Instead of trying to shelter them away from all the bad stuff like CGI nudity, why not plan on using that as a lesson.

[SwobyJ]

There are hundreds of children-friendly games on the market with fantastical themes. Why on earth do you have to "lament" the content of Dragon Age? The last time I checked, Disney and Super Mario didn't have gore or explicit romance. Why not start there?

Even if you removed the gore and romance, DA does not have child-friendly themes. Barbaric warfare, cutthroat political negotiations, religious persecution, racism, and demon worship/possession are hardly appropriate topics for children. Don't tell me you want "parental controls" for those, too. Might as well get the cast from Dragon Tales to replace the archdemons...

 

Omg I loved all that stuff when I was, like, 12. Its part of why I went to JRPGs easily - they offered those themes even if it was in a more cutesy format. The religious themes of FFX, the psychological themes of Persona 2, loved ittttttt.

[SwobyJ]

There is violence in many things, but as you said, violence without entertainment avenues. So no, they don't need to link violence to enjoyment. Alas, I filter what motives and cartoons they can watch too. Just because a content is shown in drawn figures, it doesn't mean it is ok for kids. Violence is to a certaint degree part of human life, but you don't need to toss it at your own kids unfiltered. The point is to teach them how to deal with it, not to let them just go and enjoy the heck out of it. Alas, my kids don't watch the news either yet. This doesn't mean they must be unaware. But knowing about a thing and being entirely exposed to it is not the same.

 

On that note, table top RPG, or various board games, or some mixture of it can be found for kids they'd love and enjoy and thus learn about RPG and its merits with full filter of the parent. Role playing is the very nature of children after all. Close 3 kids together (somewhere between 3 and 13) and you'll see them starting to RP in their own setting pretty soon.

 

Another sidenote: my aunt and uncle basically forced me to watch the news for 1/2-1.5 hours a night after school, during/after dinner. I came to hate it. Yet it also really inspired me to look beyond the daily regular bits of information and instead do my own research of history, sides of argumentation, little-reported stories, sociology/psychology, and more.

 

I'd see a crowd of raging Arabs on the news and my moderately conservative boomer parentals tsk tsk them as if they're all a bunch of lunatics, and instead of going along with it, I looked more into the facts and the culture*. So uh, I guess I'm just saying that kids watching the news as early as say, the pre-teens, may not be so bad as long as they are given some sort of guidance

 

But earlier than that, yeah, they should be sheltered. The years of 1-10ish need to be reserved for childhood and nothing more than childhood.

 

 

*for that matter, this acceptance of other cultures to a reasonable degree possibly kept me from being so racist that I'd ignore the (Lebanese) person who has been my partner for 3.5 years now, but that's another thing

[aTigerslunch]

There is violence in many things, but as you said, violence without entertainment avenues. So no, they don't need to link violence to enjoyment. Alas, I filter what motives and cartoons they can watch too. Just because a content is shown in drawn figures, it doesn't mean it is ok for kids. Violence is to a certaint degree part of human life, but you don't need to toss it at your own kids unfiltered. The point is to teach them how to deal with it, not to let them just go and enjoy the heck out of it. Alas, my kids don't watch the news either yet. This doesn't mean they must be unaware. But knowing about a thing and being entirely exposed to it is not the same.

 

On that note, table top RPG, or various board games, or some mixture of it can be found for kids they'd love and enjoy and thus learn about RPG and its merits with full filter of the parent. Role playing is the very nature of children after all. Close 3 kids together (somewhere between 3 and 13) and you'll see them starting to RP in their own setting pretty soon.

 

Well, granted, I would need to know if my child could handle it. But, I will never have one myself.  So, I cant deny my kids, when they dont exist, or rather, ceased to exist before they got their start...

 

Parents responsibility for all these things. But, kids will see something somewhere. Its best as someone else put it. Learn and understand in a safe environment instead of a dangerous one. I prefer they dont watch news. Id rather watch cartoons than news myself.

 

They are fun games, and their imaginations are wonderful.

[PashaPlays]

Damn I feel sorry for your hypothetical future sexually oppressed children.

[SwobyJ]

Umm it's not. If the game is 18+ it's target audience can't be anything but adults. It wouldn't make sense to target game for teenagers that's illegal of them to buy and play.

 

Yeah.

 

Sure.

 

Developers know that kids under 18 get their unaware/unknowing/uncaring parents to buy games for them.

 

Nearly all games are designed to some extent with at least the internal acknowledgement that teenagers may get their hands on them.

 

Just as Rated T really means 'This is for T but we understand that E will see it sometimes', Rated M really means 'This is for M but we understand that T will see it sometimes'. There's a reason why AO games just don't happen, and its that most of us implicitly or explicitly acknowledge that no matter the restrictions of them, copies will get into teenagers' hands and it'd bring an unroar, parental responsibility be damned. So developers don't make it, and settle for M, which DOES come with SOME degree of 'toning down', even if the games themselves are not at all tame.

 

Most M games are really 'T+' games that are given the M label due to technicalities (oh it has a single side mention of something a little more sexual! oh no!), with some exceptions.

 

DAI certainly deserves its M rating but the amount of actual M content when put together would barely fit into an hour of it, imo. Heck, even the combat feels less bloody and 'violent' than before, imo, and is now more about 'zappy zappy cool superpowers' in a fantasy setting than ever.