38 réponses à ce sujet

[Draining Dragon]

Bioware put too much effort into low-quality padding quests.

[In Exile]

1. DAI originally was meant to be a MMO game..

2. Mass Effect is already kinda MMO with ME3..

3. Other I agree..

 

DA:I wasn't meant to be an MMO. You're confusing that with the way DA:O was going to be an online game ala NWN1 in the early prototype stage. 

[Requiemslove]

I really do not get the sudden aversion to smaller areas (like Denerim divided into sectors) and the sudden glorification of 'open worlds'. Open worlds (so-called; they are not 'open', just a wider versions of those hated smaller areas) tend to be, as noted by some, lifeless and dull - after all, the attention to details decreases with the growth of the world. I've noticed that whenever gamers see an 'open world' tag, they get overly excited. It's a matter of 'quantity or quality', I guess. Anyways, remember; do not follow the American mentality, because 'bigger' does not equal 'better'.

Peace.

Too few open world games really get it right. I can agree with some of your assertions on why they fail, but some of them also get some things really spot on. There is no glorification of open worlds. There is simply a desire to see and experience a bigger in game world. There is no problem with that. Neither is there a problem with smaller worlds, DA:O showed that well enough. It is not in any way a "big" game. In fact some locations you come back to numerous times for several quests. The real problem with the DA series is due in large parts to DA:2. A game I enjoyed immensely first time around, however I feel it lacks any replayability if you take out story elements. [of which the story in DA:2 was superb] Though its biggest issue by far was the lacklustre DLC, and how small the game actually is, in comparison to DA:O. So DA:2 was a big step backwards and has pretty much fuelled the desire many of us have for bigger, better, GRANDER...I feel DA:I is in many ways a very good game. I do not feel as some, who believe DA:O is still the best. Neither do I think the new game is for that matter, but that is more to do with the issues the game has and I am sure bioware will fix the worst of them and hopefully fulfil some of the promise [including customizable keeps] this "could be" great game has.

[TheJiveDJ]

BW failed at many aspects of this game. BW needs to stick to what BW does best: semi-linear narrative-heavy RPGs featuring many relatively small sized locales with a few large hub areas and TONS of interactive cut scenes, and branching dialogue and plot. The two most recent titles to take example would be DA:O and ME2; both are perfect examples of a great BW RPG imo. Like, I don't get it, were there old titles not selling well? Is this new homogeneous crap selling any better? I can hardly see how. I would really like to see the sales figures and compare them.

[Tsunami Chef]

BW failed at many aspects of this game. BW needs to stick to what BW does best: semi-linear narrative-heavy RPGs featuring many relatively small sized locales with a few large hub areas and TONS of interactive cut scenes, and branching dialogue and plot. The two most recent titles to take example would be DA:O and ME2; both are perfect examples of a great BW RPG imo. Like, I don't get it, were there old titles not selling well? Is this new homogeneous crap selling any better? I can hardly see how. I would really like to see the sales figures and compare them.

Why does Bioware need to do this when the game sold greatly, and reviewed greatly. To appease the fans of this forum that are 10x more critical of the game than the other 90% of casual fans who don't care enough to nitpick every tiny thing and are too young to have nostalgic thoughts about games that weren't nearly as good as you remember? They have a new generation of fans who like their games...hallelujah..maybe the old guard will die out or evolve.

[Tsunami Chef]

I really do not get the sudden aversion to smaller areas (like Denerim divided into sectors) and the sudden glorification of 'open worlds'. Open worlds (so-called; they are not 'open', just a wider versions of those hated smaller areas) tend to be, as noted by some, lifeless and dull - after all, the attention to details decreases with the growth of the world. I've noticed that whenever gamers see an 'open world' tag, they get overly excited. It's a matter of 'quantity or quality', I guess. Anyways, remember; do not follow the American mentality, because 'bigger' does not equal 'better'.

 

Peace.

Walk through Denerim for five minutes and then walk through the village at the start of the hinterlands for 5 minutes. If you honestly think Denerim is more lively than you are fooling yourself...or have some different definition of what lively is.

 

What environments in DA:O were lively? I mean really...how diluted can a forums collective memory be..

[Requiemslove]

Wait...do you mean Redcliff? That is the only village in the hinterlands, and featured in a previous title. There is a central camp in the middle of the hinterlands and 6 other camps, and a farm, but no villages other than Redcliff to the north.

[Archerwarden]

Bioware's strength is in  the story and in  the characters. They're games have always been story driven. Hallway games may be old fashioned now  but they were excellent vehicles to tell a tight story. When the openness becomes so big that the main story gets lost in too many collection and fetch quests that don't add to the story or lore or endless running around just to see what the environments look like then I think there is a problem.

 

MMO elements such as giving all players the ability to heal without magic works well Guild Wars 2 because it brings the players together, it moves the players along and encourages the player to play nice. In the DA world only mages can heal a downed player, warriors and rogues can't. Now I guess to appeal to that wider audience and/or younger  audience and because MMOs are all the rage-  a decision was made  to add that feature. That is immersion and lore breaking.

 

I understand a business need to attract a new audience but at what expense? At the expense of losing that which made the franchise strongest?  I think DAI & Bioware as a whole  is having an identity crisis and they are not sure what made their past games stellar among rpgs. I think they are trying to hard to appease too many fans and appeal to a too wide audience. Its a shame.

 

I feel I have to add this: There are some great moments in DAI and its a fine game.

[Z.Z]

First...

Yes the game has issues...but tweak your settings. Add more Memory to your rig. It will make a world of difference.

Second... There is NOTHING wrong with Inquisition's open world. Do you want to play a linear game where enemies materialize from the ceiling? Stop being lazy and learn to explore and have fun.

You can always open up new regions too

I finished most areas. Does that sound lazy to you? And it's exactly why I dislike the design.

I also spent more than 300 hours exploring the vast world of Skyrim (can't remember how much time I put in other TES games - it was long ago) and wasn't really bored.

There is a difference between open world exploration and good open world exploration. Just because people don't like something in the game, doesn't mean they hate it in every other game, and absolutely have nothing to do with personal shortcomings.

It's like when someone complains about the combat and you tell them "stop being lazy. So you just prefer games that don't have combat at all? Like a casual puzzle or ACG or something (And no, I don't have problems with those kinds of games, they are just examples)?"

[Lukas Trevelyan]

This is silly. Like REALLY silly. I'm baffled by how people forget that first of all, since areas got bigger, there were more filler quests simply to encourage you to explore such areas while granting Power and Influence, and there WILL be areas that are 'empty', and while there exists forgettable average quests, some are actually quite interesting. Second DA:O's side quests were basically 'fetch' quests as well out side the main quest and a couple of side quests in each major region, and don't get me started on DA2's side quests >.> 

Exploring the game can be a great experience if you choose to accept it and roll with it. Ultimately these 'fetch' quests are completely optional and pretty much have no impact on your story experience at all, but they can also lead to discovering really cool stuff. For example capturing the keep in Western Approach, I was pretty much just running around doing a quest to gain Blackwall's approval when I noticed a building in a distance. Then I started encountering Venatori and discovered this keep belongs to them and I can capture it. It was really fun battling through different Venatori who keep swearing how they'll defeat the Inquisitor :3 After capturing I was taken by surprise that a captain with a personality to express took control of the keep (Captain Rylee) , he delivered reports about the problems in the nearby area and then I realized I can converse with him, asking about his history, role, relationship with Cullen. Also the keep felt alive, I giggled a bit when a merchant was arguing then angrily said "Well we're in the middle of a desert!". All in all that 20 minute experience was memorable and it insipred me to explore more. When I did I discovered a path that lead to a temple of some sort, to open it I needed its key which I hunted for then entered to discover the area has lore, granted it's not told to you but you can read about it- there are a few codex enteries, or understand based on what your companion's remarks imply. The area had a relic of some sort that allowed time control. If you remember Alexius had failed his mission and I discovered a letter that remarked on that, why the Venatori came to the area. Noting most of the Venatori were froze in time too. I explored a bit more and noticed the door needed a ritual/key (something along the lines) which I searched for and unlocked to discover the relic was a staff, I also discovered that once I remove the staff time would unfreeze and there might be undesirable effects- which I assume those who are frozen would die because many of the frozen Venatori disappeared and I had to close the rift that once was frozen as well. Got a really cool staff out of it- a really powerful one might I add. 

All I'm saying is interesting things exist in the area if you just allow yourself to enjoy them, even if the game introduces them to you as 'busy work' it's well refined and you might actually enjoy it if you let yourself. If not, then just do what you need to proceed in the main quest, noting how the main quest is short- possibly as short as previous games (around.. 8-10 hours to complete them all) plus you're missing out on pretty cool secrets and alliances, that while may not have a huge impact on your game, but can impact your experience and role-play. 

That being said I do believe more depth is definitely great feedback, but quit dismissing really cool stuff, or discount the game's exploration experience. 

[SpiritMuse]

This is silly. Like REALLY silly. I'm baffled by how people forget that first of all, since areas got bigger, there were more filler quests simply to encourage you to explore such areas while granting Power and Influence, and there WILL be areas that are 'empty', and while there exists forgettable average quests, some are actually quite interesting. Second DA:O's side quests were basically 'fetch' quests as well out side the main quest and a couple of side quests in each major region, and don't get me started on DA2's side quests >.> 
Exploring the game can be a great experience if you choose to accept it and roll with it. Ultimately these 'fetch' quests are completely optional and pretty much have no impact on your story experience at all, but they can also lead to discovering really cool stuff. For example capturing the keep in Western Approach, I was pretty much just running around doing a quest to gain Blackwall's approval when I noticed a building in a distance. Then I started encountering Venatori and discovered this keep belongs to them and I can capture it. It was really fun battling through different Venatori who keep swearing how they'll defeat the Inquisitor :3 After capturing I was taken by surprise that a captain with a personality to express took control of the keep (Captain Rylee) , he delivered reports about the problems in the nearby area and then I realized I can converse with him, asking about his history, role, relationship with Cullen. Also the keep felt alive, I giggled a bit when a merchant was arguing then angrily said "Well we're in the middle of a desert!". All in all that 20 minute experience was memorable and it insipred me to explore more. When I did I discovered a path that lead to a temple of some sort, to open it I needed its key which I hunted for then entered to discover the area has lore, granted it's not told to you but you can read about it- there are a few codex enteries, or understand based on what your companion's remarks imply. The area had a relic of some sort that allowed time control. If you remember Alexius had failed his mission and I discovered a letter that remarked on that, why the Venatori came to the area. Noting most of the Venatori were froze in time too. I explored a bit more and noticed the door needed a ritual/key (something along the lines) which I searched for and unlocked to discover the relic was a staff, I also discovered that once I remove the staff time would unfreeze and there might be undesirable effects- which I assume those who are frozen would die because many of the frozen Venatori and I had to close the rift that once was frozen as well. Got a really cool staff out of it- a really powerful one might I add. 
All I'm saying is interesting things exist in the area if you just allow yourself to enjoy them, even if the game introduces them to you as 'busy work' it's well refined and you might actually enjoy it if you let yourself. If not, then just do what you need to proceed in the main quest, noting how the main quest is short- possibly as short as previous games (around.. 8-10 hours to complete them all) plus you're missing out on pretty cool secrets and alliances, that while may not have a huge impact on your game, but can impact your experience and role-play. 
That being said I do believe more depth is definitely great feedback, but quit dismissing really cool stuff, or discount the game's exploration experience.

This. Also, read quest text, it helps. I found Emerald Graves, for instance, very enjoyable, even though you barely speak to anyone there. Hunting down the enemy base, then, after killing them all, going through their stuff to discover their notes on what they're doing and where the rest of them are. Hunting down more of them, then finding their notes to each other commenting on my actions in eliminating the other groups, increasingly sh*tting themselves at being completely owned by the Inquisition. It was quite funny, actually.

I barely did any of it in my first playthrough, and now that I am the difference is noticeable.

[TheJiveDJ]

Why does Bioware need to do this when the game sold greatly, and reviewed greatly. To appease the fans of this forum that are 10x more critical of the game than the other 90% of casual fans who don't care enough to nitpick every tiny thing and are too young to have nostalgic thoughts about games that weren't nearly as good as you remember? They have a new generation of fans who like their games...hallelujah..maybe the old guard will die out or evolve.

We don't know how well it has sold in comparison to their previous titles. Until this information is released, your argument holds no water unfortunately.

[MPSai]

We should all be so, so glad it didn't turn into an MMO like it was meant to early on. EA, are you finally wising up and trusting Bioware to do what they do best: make good games? Believe it or not people do like single player games, and like Bioware's ability to allow players to tell very personal stories to themselves.

[Requiemslove]

I see the large areas in this game as having a very particular reason to exist. To provide locations for FUTURE DLC. I do hope some of that which is missing from the game that was MEANT to be there does get added, and frankly should be added as FREE DLC. I also fully expect there will be new regions added to the game in time, as more DLC, and that, as well as any new story or quest content I am happy to spend cash on, as am I happy for bioware to add quest packs if they choose to simply to bolster the amount of quests you can do, so long as the ones they add are not simply fetch quests. I do not see this game as an MMO. MMO means Massive multiplayer online. This is more large single player online capable. Only disregarding the separate multiplayer game that is not connected to the main game...you will NEVER see another inquisitor within your single player game. People really must remember that when they make assertions that too much in this game is "like a MMO"