76 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathByIcecream]

Okay, I just learned a few special details about the main quest, "Here Lies the Abyss", that I literally had no idea were even in the game.

 

WARNING - Do not read past this point if you are/will be playing/replaying DAI in a world state where Loghain lives/Alistair remains a Warden, or if you haven't yet played Here Lies the Abyss!!!  Also, please no spoilers beyond the main mission in discussion, I haven't gotten past this one.

 

So, if Loghain was spared at the end of the Landsmeet in DA:O, he will be Hawke's Grey Warden contact. I think it's pretty cool how Bioware did that, this proves how choices do actually make a difference. But get this... If Alistair remained a Grey Warden at the end of DAO, he is the Grey Warden contact! The fact that both of these are actually possible blows my mind.

 

Now I almost wish I had achieved either of these endings in DAO (but that would unfortunately spoil my Queen Warden ending) - it would have made the choice at the end of Here Lies the Abyss much more emotional. While I do like Stroud, when the choice came up it was obviously going to be Hawke that comes out alive. I feel sort of sad that a big decision like that wasn't really even a choice for me - unfortunately Stroud just can't compare to my own player-created character.

 

In short, I almost feel like I'm missing out... on being depressed about a character death... yes, I know, pretty insane XD. I don't know, I feel like the mission would have been 10x better and more impacting if it were a choice between two characters I actually care about (and yes, I would care about Loghain, I almost didn't execute him before I realized Alistair would hate me forever). 

 

[Johnsen1972]

Okay, I just learned a few special details about the main quest, "Here Lies the Abyss", that I literally had no idea were even in the game.

 

WARNING - Do not read past this point if you are/will be playing/replaying DAI in a world state where Loghain lives/Alistair remains a Warden, or if you haven't yet played Here Lies the Abyss!!!  Also, please no spoilers beyond the main mission in discussion, I haven't gotten past this one.

 

So, if Loghain was spared at the end of the Landsmeet in DA:O, he will be Hawke's Grey Warden contact. I think it's pretty cool how Bioware did that, this proves how choices do actually make a difference. But get this... If Alistair remained a Grey Warden at the end of DAO, he is the Grey Warden contact! The fact that both of these are actually possible blows my mind.

 

Now I almost wish I had achieved either of these endings in DAO (but that would unfortunately spoil my Queen Warden ending) - it would have made the choice at the end of Here Lies the Abyss much more emotional. While I do like Stroud, when the choice came up it was obviously going to be Hawke that comes out alive. I feel sort of sad that a big decision like that wasn't really even a choice for me - unfortunately Stroud just can't compare to my own player-created character.

 

In short, I almost feel like I'm missing out... on being depressed about a character death... yes, I know, pretty insane XD. I don't know, I feel like the mission would have been 10x better and more impacting if it were a choice between two characters I actually care about (and yes, I would care about Loghain, I almost didn't execute him before I realized Alistair would hate me forever). 

 

I was forced to choose between Hawke and Loghain and I decided to sacrifice Hawke, because Hawke is a souless Nobody if not played by myself.

 

And btw if you hardend Alister you can still recruit Loghain and Alistair will not leave. He will be king. Thats what I did in my DAO playthrough.

 

The only thing that was really sad was the reaction of Varric... That made me cry.

 

[dontwantanacc]

Yeah, don't really care about Hawke (or Alistair) to be honest. I just can't bring myself to do that to Varric. RELOAD every damned time.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I still think they should have made somebody from the Awakening cast Hawke's Warden contact if Alistair/Loghain aren't Wardens. 

 

Something like a Nathaniel/Hawke choice would have been difficult for me too. :C

[SabreTastic]

I watched a version with Alistair and that was enough for me for now. Someday, I'll load up that worldstate.

 

Interestingly enough, I have the opposite reaction to yours. My very first playthrough was with my favorite Hawke and he stayed in Nightmare's Realm because that was spot-on what he'd do without hesitation, absolutely. It's just one more time I couldn't meta my way through Hawke's journey. Happened all the time with that one in DA2. Saving Anders was literally an impossible mission. It was so bittersweet when Hawke finally had to admit that in front of everyone. And the things that Nightmare said to Hawke? Completely not okay.

 

And I was paranoid/hoping initially that Nathaniel would be the Warden Contact instead of Stroud. And then it was 'Where is Nathaniel? Please don't be in the middle of all this.' XD

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Wow that's pretty amazing. This game wilk have a lot of replay value.

[KefkaGestahl]

Stroud is the only one that makes sense to me.  It was Loghain in my game, but Hawke has reason to be Stroud's friend.  Stroud saves Hawke's brother/sister.  I appreciated the cameo, but it really seemed forced to have Hawke randomly become friends with Alistair or Loghain.

[berrieh]

Stroud is the only one that makes sense to me.  It was Loghain in my game, but Hawke has reason to be Stroud's friend.  Stroud saves Hawke's brother/sister.  I appreciated the cameo, but it really seemed forced to have Hawke randomly become friends with Alistair or Loghain.

 

Not in every case, though. Many Hawkes likely left their siblings behind and didn't bring them to the DR. In some cases, Stroud makes the most sense. But not always. If Hawke's sibling isn't a Warden and Anders isn't alive, it doesn't make too much sense exactly how Hawke met whoever it is, though. But it has been two years, and Hawke knows a lot of people. 

 

Since all the Ferelden Wardens basically died and the Orlesian Wardens would outnumber them, it makes more sense for Loghain (or even Alistair to some degree) to be "the man out" than Stroud. The wardens turning on Stroud just because he said blood magic was uncool seems kind of unwarranted. But if it's Loghain who you never trusted anyway....  As to Alistair, his Templar training could've been seen as a bias by the Warden mages. Stroud just seems like a really good, honorable Warden that people would if not listen to, not go this far about hunting down. 

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Stroud is the only one that makes sense to me.  It was Loghain in my game, but Hawke has reason to be Stroud's friend.  Stroud saves Hawke's brother/sister.  I appreciated the cameo, but it really seemed forced to have Hawke randomly become friends with Alistair or Loghain.

 

I could see Alistair in some circumstances - if he's a Warden you'll meet him at the end of act 2, potentially with the Hawke sibling. So, Hawke met him at least.

 

Loghain...is a bit odd, though. I guess Hawke met him while on the run. I think Nathaniel would have been a better choice, Hawke actually (potentially) saved his life. 

 

Still, seeing Loghain again was cool.

[DarkSpiral]

I feel you, OP.  The choice between Hawke and Loghain was a very easy one for me.  It would have been so much more difficult if it had been Alister!

[DarkSpiral]

Stroud is the only one that makes sense to me.  It was Loghain in my game, but Hawke has reason to be Stroud's friend.  Stroud saves Hawke's brother/sister.  I appreciated the cameo, but it really seemed forced to have Hawke randomly become friends with Alistair or Loghain.

Not Alistair, no.  Senior Warden Alistair is in DA2, during the Qunari coup.  So, Hawke at least met him before.  I chuckled a little bit when it was Loghain, but I let it slide for the pleasure of the cameo.

And Simon Templeman's voice.  That too.

[Rip504]

Loghain is an awesome character. Epic imo. It was hard for me to leave him behind.

[Johnsen1972]

Loghain is an awesome character. Epic imo. It was hard for me to leave him behind.

thats why I didnt do it

Honestly who takes a souless Hawke over Loghain? He was an awesome antagonist in DAO. A strong general who accepted his fate and joined the grey wardens. I mean really, Hawke doesnt have a soul without being played. 

[Vikarus]

I think this was easily my favorite quest in DA:I but I was a little let down by the phrase "likely die." It took away a lot of the gravity in the choice, as I assume either death will be retconned later.

I hope not. I loved being given the choice to end my Hawke's story how I chose, and it killed me that my Hawke said "Say goodbye to Varric for me," instead of anything about his love interest. I loved the idea of his friendship with Varric meaning so much. I think that's a rarity in Bioware games where most of your companions move on to do their own thing.

I do definitely agree the default warden should have been someone from Awakening the player would care about more though. For me, I had Loghain, and since he's my favorite character it wasn't a question.

[Robert Cousland]

This is why we have multiple alternate characters, just so we can see all the different variables play out. I have at least 9 characters in total, all of them started in Origins, and ive made sure to change races and classes from game to game. Kinda stuck being human in DA2, but I play around that, start as am elf or dwarf in Origins, then play as an elf or dwarf in Inquisition, that way I have all three races in the mix together as Heroes, Champions, Inquisitors, e.t.c. Although my canon characters are all human, my preferred races, but I made sure to at least mix the classes up. Robert Cousland is a warrior, Ethan Hawke is a mage, and Alex Trevelyan is a Rogue.

[TheLittleBird]

So, I had Alistair as a Warden. And I was roleplaying my Inquisitor. And I knew he'd leave Alistair behind and save Hawke.

It took me half an hour to press the button. And then...

[dontwantanacc]

I think this was easily my favorite quest in DA:I but I was a little let down by the phrase "likely die." It took away a lot of the gravity in the choice, as I assume either death will be retconned later.

This bugged me a bit as well. Not just in this instance but in other cases where 'Do this and this may happen'. It should (IMO) been more black and white - make a choice with no indication of what might happen. Make a choice and live with the consequences,

[DeathByIcecream]

thats why I didnt do it

Honestly who takes a souless Hawke over Loghain? He was an awesome antagonist in DAO. A strong general who accepted his fate and joined the grey wardens. I mean really, Hawke doesnt have a soul without being played. 

 

Perhaps I have a different perspective being a hobbyist writer, but I often think of my characters as people in their own right - they aren't simply defined by my direction of their actions. There's this quote from JK Rowling (I think it was her anyway, I have a terrible memory for these things) that explains this in a much better way, but I can't seem to find it right now .

 

More on topic, thanks everyone for your responses, interesting to see what you all think. I'm actually having some serious cognitive dissonance right now about the choice - on the one hand, I don't want Hawke to die, and I still don't care about Stroud (sorry Stroud). On the other hand, I'm having trouble figuring out why exactly my Inquisitor would choose Hawke over Stroud when Stroud is the "smarter" choice (the Wardens should have a leader to help them rebuild). I'm sure I'll find some justification eventually xD.

[TheLittleBird]

Perhaps I have a different perspective being a hobbyist writer, but I often think of my characters as people in their own right - they aren't simply defined by my direction of their actions. There's this quote from JK Rowling (I think it was her anyway, I have a terrible memory for these things) that explains this in a much better way, but I can't seem to find it right now .

 

More on topic, thanks everyone for your responses, interesting to see what you all think. I'm actually having some serious cognitive dissonance right now about the choice - on the one hand, I don't want Hawke to die, and I still don't care about Stroud (sorry Stroud). On the other hand, I'm having trouble figuring out why exactly my Inquisitor would choose Hawke over Stroud when Stroud is the "smarter" choice (the Wardens should have a leader to help them rebuild). I'm sure I'll find some justification eventually xD.

 

Stroud is a Warden meaning he'll probably die sooner than Hawke, he doesn't seem to have a family, Hawke might, plus Hawke's death gets Varric real sad. Does that help?

[Vikarus]

Perhaps I have a different perspective being a hobbyist writer, but I often think of my characters as people in their own right - they aren't simply defined by my direction of their actions. There's this quote from JK Rowling (I think it was her anyway, I have a terrible memory for these things) that explains this in a much better way, but I can't seem to find it right now .

More on topic, thanks everyone for your responses, interesting to see what you all think. I'm actually having some serious cognitive dissonance right now about the choice - on the one hand, I don't want Hawke to die, and I still don't care about Stroud (sorry Stroud). On the other hand, I'm having trouble figuring out why exactly my Inquisitor would choose Hawke over Stroud when Stroud is the "smarter" choice (the Wardens should have a leader to help them rebuild). I'm sure I'll find some justification eventually xD.

For role-playing purposes, Hawke gives a good argument for leaving the Warden behind. Your Inquisitor might feel the Wardens aren't worth saving, considering what they've done. Your Quizno, after all, isn't a warden. It's the player who understands how important the order is. Also, you might purposely mess up talking the Wardens down before entering the fade. Just because we know the right choice doesn't mean Quizno would, leaving few already corrupt wardens for the Warden (Loghain/Stroud/Ali) to lead anyway.

[sylvanaerie]

First time I left Stroud and accepted the wardens into the Inquisition (albeit at a distance because of Cory).  This was my "canon" Hawke, and it felt wrong to leave her. 

The second time I was going for other content, I had Grey Warden Alistair and a mage Hawke who was the final Hawke I played.  This time my Inquisitor left Hawke, feeling Alistair should go back to rebuild/lead the wardens into exile.  The hardest part of leaving Hawke behind was her telling me to say goodbye to Varric and Varric's reaction to the news.

 

It's all about the 'different scenes'.  Next game will have Loghain as the warden.  Not sure what I'll do in that one.  It's my "everyone dies and completely messed up world state". 

[phaonica]

I'm actually kind of surprised by the number of people who have expressed fondness for Loghain. From my previous experience with the community, I assumed few really liked him.

[DarkSpiral]

Liked him?  I'd purely hate his flaming guts in RL.  Its the very fact that he's such a deep, complex villain that makes him wonderful.  He evokes a powerful emotional response.  I love hating Loghain Mac Tir in DA:O.  And I saluted him as he distracted the demon so we could escape.  It wasn't a hard choice to make, because he goes out in a way that is worthy of his story, and Hawke gets to continue hers.

 

Choosing between Alistair and Hawke would have bee worlds more difficult to do, like choosing between Grunt and the Rachni Queen was.  I was frozen in indecision for minutes, gritting my teeth over that choice!  (We'll ignore the results, the point was the choice was genuinely hard to make the first time I did it) I loved them both (alistair and Hawke), but it would have left a sour taste on my tongue regardless of which I chose, because it feels so much less appropriate for either of them.

 

And then there is Stroud, who I don't care about one way or the other.  That choice will also be easy, and the ramifications be very small indeed.

[Fardreamer]

I still say the choice should have been between our original Warden and Hawke, and I'm convinced that's what BW intended when they first thought it up.

The choice of stroud is the weakest, because no one cares about him. It should have been Carver/Bethany, a warden from Awakening like Oghren, or someone... But too many variables were involved with all those.