37 réponses à ce sujet

[Corker]

Maybe they want to focus on the Mythal/Flemeth-Solas story, or on some political background issues (like how to deal with all the power the Inquisition has obtained throughout the game).

Hey, you know, I've been carefully avoiding anyplace that looked like it might spoil the new elven lore in DAI for me.

So thanks for effing that up by dropping a huge reveal in a totally unrelated thread. I appreciate that.

[CrimsonArgie]

Sorry man, I didn't mean to. 

[BioWareM0d13]

While I'm not much of a fan of that quest the Warden is on (I'd rather the Calling not get cured), I think the Warden could quite easily be portrayed as a character in a DA game without much issue. I don't think he or she will ever be a playable character again, but an important NPC like Hawke that temporarily joins your party? Sure.

 

All they would need to do is introduce the character creator much like they did with Hawke, and add the capability of selecting between one of two voice actors (one British & one American) per gender. 

[Broganisity]

How about this:

Everytime it looks like the Hero of Fereldan is about to speak, someone interrupts with something else.

[ent1]

Having a silent protagonist allows conversations to go in more directions, because you don't have to record both sides of the conversation. Going back to play DA:O after DA:I it struck me that dialogue choices actually change the narrative in many cases, whereas in DA:I (and most games like it) your choices only really affect the tone. Also, the response you pick is your response and not just a "hint" which often turns out to be not what you were expecting to say at all. 

 

Having a character speak can make them more relatable, but it has costs. I like DA:O's treatment of the protagonist just the way it is.

[sylvanaerie]

Considering no matter what Bioware does, people ****** and moan about it, (as multiple threads on these boards can attest to both sides of the arguments) either bringing in the warden or leaving him/her out is going to be complained about.  Bioware is 'damned if they do, and damned if they don't'.

 

I, for one, don't need to see my warden ever again.  I'll never be able to recreate her accurately in CC, nor will my preferred combat-voice from Origins be her voice (or his as in the case of my male wardens--and I was very specific in who I chose as his voice actor).

 

And the WC from Awakenings was a non-entity for me.  I played it exactly 3 times, with one incomplete "Orlesian" warden play done just to see what different content was available.  So, for me, that wouldn't be an option for those wardens I had die in Origins since the Orlesian isn't anyone special, just another darkspawn killer like any other warden in Thedas.

 

Origins was a fun game, I enjoyed it on it's own merits, but I've enjoyed the other games since on their merits as well.   

 

I wouldn't buy any 'warden-centric DLC'.  If enough people wanted it, I suppose it's possible and more power to them if they want to shell out the cash for it, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, OP.

[Klidi]

Oh I don't know, maybe because characters having voices is what happens nowadays? Yes it is my problem, however Bioware gave me the solution by providing voices back in DA 2 so nice try "How you role play it"..In other words, "my warden only has a personality when I play pretend." That may work for you but that doesn't work for everyone else. A majority of the dialogue lines you could pick from in Origins were irrelevant because the NPC would wind up saying the same thing regardless. The only difference was in how you said it. See you already went through the process of picking a voice. Now imagine if they had that voice and actually spoke their lines. That's a whole lot better than sitting there and "role playing", smh" what they sound like. This is a video game, not a book.

 

If they bring the Wardens back, which you're actually in the minority since I see plenty wanting the Warden to return in the other forums, then it would be redudant for them to be silent when everyone else is talking. It'd be like Bioware taking a step back just to appease to those who enjoy the silent protagonist when things are different now. Having a voice doesn't mean you don't get into your character's head if that's what you're trying to imply. My Inquisitor has a voice and I feel like I make the decisions as him and I gave him his personality.  In Origns, I had no sense of that feeling. In Origins I had to try to "imagine" what my Warden would sound like with that voice I had picked at the start. Zzzzz

Well for me - and quite a few others - it's the opposite. It's imagining the character however we wanted that was fun. Hawke was a cheap cliche. Hawke was rough, dangerous looking middle-aged bearded guy. And you couldn't change that. Even with mods that enabled you to make him look younger - like Bethany and Carver's sibling, not their stepfather - you were still reminded, and not in a subtle way, that it's not 'real' Hawke, because he still sounded like the middle-aged bearded guy cliche. It was boring - and it totally ruined the immersion and the whole point of playing DA2 for me.

 

I haven't really played DAI yet, I just tried it for a few hours on my friend's computer. Well. It's improvement from DA2. At least the Inquisitor doesn't look like he/she is made of plastic. And you can even choose the accent, yay! But you still have only two options that don't fit with all Inquisitors. They won't fit with most of my Inquisitors, in fact. Once again, I feel I'm being pushed to play with the developers' dolls - if I want it to look and sound right. (The screwed model of a male elf is another big hint who is 'canon' Inquisitor you should play.)

 

I'm so sick and tired of interactive movies that parade as RPG these days - eye candy, sure, but without any sense of role-playing, of creating your own characters. All you're allowed to do is to play with developers' dolls. And I'm too old to play with barbies and kens.

 

And I don't want my Warden to be turned into one of those dolls, thank you. I don't want them to change his backstory to some cheap cliche, I don't want them to change their personality to their limited idea what the Commander should be like. And I don't want them to change their voice to fit that limited idea. If they want to bring the Warden back, great, but they better make sure he fits MY Warden, not their cookie-cutter variation of Commander Shepard.

[CrimsonArgie]

Well for me - and quite a few others - it's the opposite. It's imagining the character however we wanted that was fun. Hawke was a cheap cliche. Hawke was rough, dangerous looking middle-aged bearded guy. And you couldn't change that. Even with mods that enabled you to make him look younger - like Bethany and Carver's sibling, not their stepfather - you were still reminded, and not in a subtle way, that it's not 'real' Hawke, because he still sounded like the middle-aged bearded guy cliche. It was boring - and it totally ruined the immersion and the whole point of playing DA2 for me.

 

I haven't really played DAI yet, I just tried it for a few hours on my friend's computer. Well. It's improvement from DA2. At least the Inquisitor doesn't look like he/she is made of plastic. And you can even choose the accent, yay! But you still have only two options that don't fit with all Inquisitors. They won't fit with most of my Inquisitors, in fact. Once again, I feel I'm being pushed to play with the developers' dolls - if I want it to look and sound right. (The screwed model of a male elf is another big hint who is 'canon' Inquisitor you should play.)

 

I'm so sick and tired of interactive movies that parade as RPG these days - eye candy, sure, but without any sense of role-playing, of creating your own characters. All you're allowed to do is to play with developers' dolls. And I'm too old to play with barbies and kens.

 

And I don't want my Warden to be turned into one of those dolls, thank you. I don't want them to change his backstory to some cheap cliche, I don't want them to change their personality to their limited idea what the Commander should be like. And I don't want them to change their voice to fit that limited idea. If they want to bring the Warden back, great, but they better make sure he fits MY Warden, not their cookie-cutter variation of Commander Shepard.

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. It's neither about the voice nor about how he/she looks, it's about taking the Warden I created and giving him a "standard" personality to fit with the story. That's what I don't want: Bioware messing with I character I created. So what I tried to say in my original post was that regardless of which voice they chose, that's not the most important issue of bringing the Warden back.

[Chashan]

And not liking silent protagonist is your problem. Why should your preferences matter more?

 

How much personality your character has depends on how you role-play it, not on a pre-set voices and decisions. I hated DA2. I played it 4 times - didn't even finish the 4th, though. I still play DA:O. Because my Wardens have ton more personality than the pre-made Hawkes with pre-made voices and dialogue lines that didn't match the wheel and that were in 99% idiotic.

 

And making choices does depend on the voice, at least for me. E.g. my cheeky teenage Warden had a violent elf voice that fitted him perfectly. It sound youthful and playful, while my evil Cousland had a cocky human voice. In both cases, I chose those voices because it fit the personalities I had created for them, and it influenced the lines I chose for them.

 

I agree with CrimsonArgie - leave the Wardens be. If my main Warden appeared in the sequel or DLC turned into a pre-made wannabe character like Hawke, I'd be royally pissed off. I want an ROLE PLAYING game - you know, the game where you're actually SUPPOSED to get into your character's head, create their personalities, give them their voice. I don't want another cheap imitation with pre-made dolls, thank you.

 

I am of like mind, for the most part.

 

Yet, I'll concede one possibility that could work for both those who do not wish their surviving Wardens turned into an obscure caricature of themselves as well as those who desperately want to see their Wardens one last time on the stage again:

Leave the option open to the player whether the character recreated for a DLC-section or an all-new game is the Hero of Ferelden or another Warden Commander altogether.

 

Those who sacrificed their Wardens still get access to the content and can continue with that new story.

 

Those who are not at all convinced their living Warden characters from Origins would survive the transition and whatever writing BW would come up with for them - which I can relate to given how Hawkes were handled in DA:I - avoid that issue this way, and likewise be able to access this new story.

 

Finally, those who call out for the Hero of Ferelden's reappearance on screen time and time again finally get what they want.

 

 

 

I may be firmly in the first two groups, thinking it best the DA:O PC's are left alone from now on, yet I imagine it would be the best manner to handle this

[Remmirath]

The only way that I will ever be happy with seeing an old PC reappear in a new game is if they are, again, a PC. Adding a voice to a previously unvoiced character would just make it worse, since that would add another level of lack of control.

What they did in DA:I actually worked very well for me. I am completely fine with that kind of mention, and that level of reference. It would've been nice to add something to the Keep such as "what goal was most important to them" or some such under the DA:O section, since I realise that what they were said to be doing wouldn't work well for every character, but overall I think it was the right way to handle it.

I'd also be okay with never seeing or hearing from the character again. Far better that then end up with some weird doppleganger shambling around taking their place, since we can't control them.

I really believe that the best way to handle a future appearance of any previous PC would be to have a sub-section where you play as that character, or even take turns playing as both that character and your current character in the same section (not impossible; one was frequently able to choose which character would speak to an NPC and so forth in older games -- indeed, one could even flash from you picking one response to you picking another response in a conversation, although that'd be trickier to plot out). I'd say that the only way to be completely respectful of everybody's choices about their characters, and yet have them show up again, is to let them play them again as well. Otherwise, it is best to stick to references.

Oh I don't know, maybe because characters having voices is what happens nowadays? Yes it is my problem, however Bioware gave me the solution by providing voices back in DA 2 so nice try

"What happens nowadays" does not work as a valid basis for an argument that centers around personal preferences. If you go back in time a decade, that very same argument would apply to un-voiced characters. If you go back more than twenty years, it could apply to games being largely text-based. The current trend is always changing, and the fact that something is the current trend gives it no more or less inherent worth.

"How you role play it"..In other words, "my warden only has a personality when I play pretend." That may work for you but that doesn't work for everyone else.

That is the general premise of a roleplaying game, yes. I'm aware that roleplaying games have always been something of a niche genre, and so I'll not argue that it doesn't work for many people, but Dragon Age is still (at least for now) a roleplaying game franchise. The ability to roleplay one's character must be kept.

Many people are also able to successfully roleplay a character who is voiced. I find it to be a struggle, but can do so, although it severely limits the replayability of the game in question (as each voice becomes associated to one character for me), and causes frustrations in the form of the uncertainty created by the paraphrase system. I'm much happier with an unvoiced protagonist.

A majority of the dialogue lines you could pick from in Origins were irrelevant because the NPC would wind up saying the same thing regardless. The only difference was in how you said it.

The same is true of all roleplaying games, or at least, all BioWare games that I can think of. Since they are roleplaying games, shaping and demonstrating your character's personality via the things they say (and, ideally, how they say them) is hardly irrelevant. Yes, they often lead to the same line said by the NPC. That's no different in Mass Effect, or in DA II, or in DA:I.

The game that I can think of with the most varied dialogue and responses by NPCs to said dialogue is Planescape: Torment. That wasn't voiced. The depth and responsiveness of the dialogue system does not hinge on a voiced protagonist or a lack thereof; it is writing and design.

See you already went through the process of picking a voice. Now imagine if they had that voice and actually spoke their lines. That's a whole lot better than sitting there and "role playing", smh" what they sound like. This is a video game, not a book.

It's a computer roleplaying game, not an interactive film.
 

If they bring the Wardens back, which you're actually in the minority since I see plenty wanting the Warden to return in the other forums, then it would be redudant for them to be silent when everyone else is talking.

I don't think redundant is the word you're looking for there (maybe strange?), but there are also plenty of people who don't want to see that, especially with how the Champion's return was handled in DA:I. Even many people who like voiced PCs aren't very fond of not being able to control what their old PC is doing, at all.

If you're controlling the character again, it wouldn't be strange. If you're not, I for one certainly don't want to see the character at all.

It'd be like Bioware taking a step back just to appease to those who enjoy the silent protagonist when things are different now.

Since, arguably, putting in a reappearance of the Warden would be designed to appease -- or at least play to -- the people who like DA:O to begin with, perhaps they would prefer to do so in a manner that those same people would actually enjoy (if at all)?

Also, not a step back. It is simply a different way of doing things, with its own advantages and disadvantages. I personally feel that the advantages of having an unvoiced PC far outway the disadvantages, but that is entirely a matter of opinion. There is no objective answer on it. The closest thing to an objective answer you're going to get there is that a voiced PC takes more resources, which would tend to swing the balance in favour of the unvoiced PC, if anything.
 

Hawke was pefectly fine until they had him do that bit about the Wardens. If I didn't say it before, that's hardly a reason why he or the warden shouldn't be included. Like I said, that was probably just a poor way for them to have had someone to disagree with Stroud/whoever.

For you. Not for everyone. For me, there were a few problems there, and I know some other people who had a lot more personality-clash issues with the choices they made for the Champion there.

It would be much worse with the Warden. There isn't even the dubious characterisation shortcut of the Aggressive/Sarcastic/Diplomatic personality trend for them to use, although I suppose one such could be added.

[Iron Bull's Fangirl]

Oh my yes! My friends and I were discussing this earlier---DLC for the Warden (you controlling it) finding the cure for "the Calling". Hell, they could even name it "The Calling"! Imagine being the warden, getting to experience the whispering and sensations of it. It would be a great idea!

[BSpud]

People need to learn by now that Bioware's going to ignore our decisions anyways. It doesn't make it right but it's becoming more and more apparent. For ex in ME 2, when you run into Conrad he tells you how you tried to shoot him in the foot. Now if you're playing as a Paragon Shep then that would have never happened because that was the renegade choice, especially if you didn't even choose that in the previous game. 

 

That was an import flag bug.

 

 

 

I hated DA2. I played it 4 times

 

This made me chuckle.