So you don't like the DA games, think Bioware has become a bunch of cowards in regards to the series, and think the fans are dumb? Honest question then, dude: Why are you even here, then?
Very good question , the toxicity that he and his likes bring to these forums is most likely why we cant even have Devs stop by to have a chat with us, if you dont like the game thats perfectly fine but there are better ways to express such.
Hold on a sec:
This game might as well be Mass Effect 3 in Thedas, but without the curveballs and risks that ME3 took.
Curveballs with regard to the story? You mean like all that stuff with the Elvish lore getting turned on it's head? And that there might be some truth with regard to how the blight started and the maker as well?
We are gonna gather allies to meet the threat, we must stand united. Wow, so original.
Yes if only they did that aspect of the game, more like ME3 where you gather allies and stand together. Man now that would have been original.
Oh, my character is special because of fate, and lets use a lazy amnesia device to make it happen.
Actually whether it's fate or circumstance is rather ambiguous, all we know for certain is that mark on your hand makes you uniquely qualified to solved the task at hand. Unlike Shepard who was quite literally just special for "reasons" that we never actually explained past them being "a leader" whatever the hell that means.
And then there is Corypheus, a badly underwritten, boring and clichéd villain who wants to destroy and remake the world and become a god because of "reasons". Nevermind failing to really utilize this backstory. Say what you will, I found Extended Cut Catalyst to be a much more fleshed out villain in 3 minutes of screen time than Corphyeus in all of DAI. What happened to a villain like Jon Irenicus? And really, DAI didn't need a villain or threat like him because the land at war is a big threat enough. Why not have a political story?
His reasons where clear, he found no gods when he went to the fade and decided to become one to give the world guidance according to his own perspective. We did have a political story, it was mixed in with the trying to close the breach. You resolved the conflicts of two warring factions and stopped a civil war, in addition to expanding your own political influence, which helped reshaped how the world functioned through politics rather than godhood as Corypheus wanted. I'm not sure you even know what you want. You complain about Corypheus' failing being that he was only there for 3 mintues but then seem to not want more focus on him at all. He's not that different from Irenicus actually, they both want to restore something important to themselves at the expense of others.
Hell, the ending is easily one of the laziest I have ever seen. Say what you want about ME3's ending (and if you thought about it, ME3's ending does indeed fit the series and the universe), but DAI's is uninspired and weak, and copy paste of DAO.
It's not particularity inspired, even lackluster, I'll give you that, but here's the main thing, it's largely consistent with what you've set you to achieve much more so than ME3. It doesn't push boundaries but it doesn't devolve into a complete nonsense either.
It seems to me that have DA2's reception, Bioware became a bunch of cowards, and instead of trying to write and create risky and more original stories, instead base their stories off of fan surveys and forum posts, scared of the fan backlash if they don't produce story content that the fans want or the choices and outcomes that the fans want. Bioware basically became a company all about fan service instead of pushing their stories as far as they can and trust that the fanbase will go along with it, however, having a fan base smart enough, which Bioware doesn't have, to go along with it is also a problem. And really, pains me to say this, Bioware has run out of ideas when it comes to plot and story elements, because why do they recycle these elements over and over, every story?
Actually you can probably connect them playing it safe with the story this time around with how "well" both DA2 and ME3 were received.
Yes they should stop catering to all those other whiny fans and start catering to your whiny self instead, that will solve all the problems. They've never been that good with story, it's the characters and world building that they've been good with.
Hopefully ME4 proves me wrong, and hopefully the DA team has a expansion like a Mask Of the Betrayer on their hands. If not, moving on out, its been fun Bioware.
They'll probably try something different gameplay wise, but storyline wise it looks like they figured out what won't cause a huge backlash. I look forward to your heartbreak enlightened one.
Meh, ending and intro were both rather lackluster, but in terms of quality I'll still say it trumps the last few bioware games.
And I would also say that Champions Of the Just is perhaps Bioware's best level so far. I think I'll put it over Virmire from ME1 in terms of quality, which is strong praise from me at least.
He's here because he loves to hate.
There's always some for every game: they dislike the games, the company, everything about them apparently, yet keep following releases and buying every new one that comes along. Like buying a cake you know you won't like and then moaning about every bite, but still finishing it. Just inexplicable.
DAI wasn't perfect, far from it. But the things I dislike about it don't come close to dissuading me from playing it or wrecking my enjoyment (and I have enjoyed it very much, so far). If it did, I wouldn't keep bothering. There are plenty of games people don't buy for similar reasons (thief 4 in my case).
The story was so deep and intellectual, I think you just didn't get it.
I see what you did there 
The story was so deep and intellectual, I think you just didn't get it.
story is so good coz it's like ... sacrifice n ****.
I've tried looking at the plot from the perspective of someone who hasn't played DA:O and DA2 and/or hasn't paid much attention to the lore (which let's face it can be buried in sidequests and codexes at times), and I can see why the plot is vague and frustrating to many people. I do appreciate that the plot assumes you know alot about the world and story so far, but in the end it's really a bad thing because the execution of it should tell people everything they need to know.
It certainly feels like they rushed the game near the end.
Until the attack on Haven, the plot was fine. The attack was, by the way, superbly done. One of the best moments in the game. I always replay it whenever I can.
But after that, when we reach Skyhold, taking the Here Lies the Abyss quest apart, the whole story kinda loses its purpose. It's as if Bioware didn't know how to connect the dots. "We need to place a nobility gathering here, then the eluvian plotline there, then red lyrium hunt here...".
After HLtA, the whole plot goes haywire. It didn't feel like there was an evolution in the story. More like the team had to tie loose ends from previous games, like the Old God Baby and Morrigan entering the eluvian in Witch Hunt DLC.
(For instance, I still don't understand what was the point of Halamshiral. Sure, it was cool attending an orlesian ball and hearing all the fun dialog (Did you just...grab my bottom?), but that's not the point. Why were we there? We search the entire palace, walk around like an idiot, freaking out over loss of court approval for what? Just to stop Florianne? I mean, what was the point?)
The central problem with DA:I was this: the game doesn't provide any sort of closure. That is the problem. We are left with nothing but a feeling of absence.
And if that weren't enough, they only complicated matters further by adding a NEW plotline with the whole Epilogue and elven gods scene (Solas/Fen'Harel and Flemeth/Mythal).
What some fans DID expect was:
Other issues that were expected:
Instead of all this, we get new characters, with the recurring ones not making much of a difference (except for Cullen, who has surprisingly evolved through the 3 games), a random "elven old gods" plotline that connects poorly to the Flemeth mystery, a repetition of the mage/templar conflict and a predictable ending where you take on the big baddy.
Seriously, I expected our Inquisitor would INDEED change the world, doing things like:
Now THAT would provide us with a sense of closure and fulfillment.
(And there are plenty of other things the fans know that can be added to the list)
Although I enjoyed the romances, the landscapes, the cutscenes and the characters in general (seriously, Dorian is superb), I felt thoroughly disappointed as well. Bioware, never mind how long it takes, please make a decent continuation where all these issues will be addressed.
And Maker's breath, stop hurrying development of games because of deadlines. Next time, take as long as necessary to make a good plot, with a decent ending. Maybe forget a bit about writing Codexes, numerous side quests and other irrelevant stuff and focus more on the MAIN PLOT.
You can do it!
I didn't see the very end coming in any way.
It certainly feels like they rushed the game near the end.
Until the attack on Haven, the plot was fine. The attack was, by the way, superbly done. One of the best moments in the game. I always replay it whenever I can.
But after that, when we reach Skyhold, taking the Here Lies the Abyss quest apart, the whole story kinda loses its purpose. It's as if Bioware didn't know how to connect the dots. "We need to place a nobility gathering here, then the eluvian plotline there, then red lyrium hunt here...".
After HLtA, the whole plot goes haywire. It didn't feel like there was an evolution in the story. More like the team had to tie loose ends from previous games, like the Old God Baby and Morrigan entering the eluvian in Witch Hunt DLC.
(For instance, I still don't understand what was the point of Halamshiral. Sure, it was cool attending an orlesian ball and hearing all the fun dialog (Did you just...grab my bottom?), but that's not the point. Why were we there? We search the entire palace, walk around like an idiot, freaking out over loss of court approval for what? Just to stop Florianne? I mean, what was the point?)
The central problem with DA:I was this: the game doesn't provide any sort of closure. That is the problem. We are left with nothing but a feeling of absence.
And if that weren't enough, they only complicated matters further by adding a NEW plotline with the whole Epilogue and elven gods scene (Solas/Fen'Harel and Flemeth/Mythal).
What some fans DID expect was:
- A continuation of the Archdemon/Old Gods plot, with explanations as to what are they in reality
- What is the taint and how it controls the darkspawn (is it blood magic?)
- How the Old God Baby would change the world (after Morrigan prepared him to fulfill his destiny)
- What Flemeth was and how she related to the Old TEVINTER gods -and NOT the elven ones, since both NEVER gave any resemblance in past DA games of EVER being related
- If the last 2 Archdemons would be killed or saved thanks to Flemeth/Morrigan ancient magic
- To know how the Black City was TRULY formed and if it could be restored to the Golden City.
- If the Blight would ever end (would the Architect play a part in this, maybe with an army of awakened darkspawn?)
- If Anders would return -if alive or cited as a martyr- and infuence a major political change in Thedas, maybe standing against the Inquisitor if he sided with the templars or giving him some insight into the problem with the Circles (I half expected him to be standing alongside Corypheus, leading the rebel mages)
Other issues that were expected:
- If we would find the other six Magisters of old and have to deal with them.
- If Tevinter would attempt to start a war with the Free Marches and we'd have to intervene (sure, we deal with the Venatori, but it's not the same thing).
- The fate of the Architect and the awakened darkspawn.
Instead of all this, we get new characters, with the recurring ones not making much of a difference (except for Cullen, who has surprisingly evolved through the 3 games), a random "elven old gods" plotline that connects poorly to the Flemeth mystery, a repetition of the mage/templar conflict and a predictable ending where you take on the big baddy.
Seriously, I expected our Inquisitor would INDEED change the world, doing things like:
- Fixing the Fade (which looks abysmal in every single game) after the magisters invaded it thousands of years ago, restoring the Golden City.
- Finding a cure for the taint and, with an army of Wardens and awakened darkspawn (and maybe Flemeth's advice), restore the last 2 tainted Old Gods from Archdemons back to normal spirits. The Wardens would then be rid of the taint and the Order would be dissolved.
- Freeing the elven slaves of Tevinter, defying the Magisters and changing the Imperium for good (maybe Fenris would end up helping us, as well as Dorian).
- Uncovering secrets of lost Arlathan, unite the Dalish clans and help them rebuild their civilization in the ruins of the Imperium (so to speak).
- Discovering the truth about Andraste and her tale, maybe even uncovering something that would shake the foundations of the Tevinter empire and of the whole Chantry dogma. This could lead to a new religion being born in Thedas, one that abandons the belief in the Maker and accepts High Spirits (the former Old Gods) as divine creatures that once guided human and elven life.
Now THAT would provide us with a sense of closure and fulfillment.
(And there are plenty of other things the fans know that can be added to the list)
Although I enjoyed the romances, the landscapes, the cutscenes and the characters in general (seriously, Dorian is superb), I felt thoroughly disappointed as well. Bioware, never mind how long it takes, please make a decent continuation where all these issues will be addressed.
And Maker's breath, stop hurrying development of games because of deadlines. Next time, take as long as necessary to make a good plot, with a decent ending. Maybe forget a bit about writing Codexes, numerous side quests and other irrelevant stuff and focus more on the MAIN PLOT.
You can do it!
The only problem with Halamshiral was you were essentially required to read the Masked Empire to have a clue what was going on there. Otherwise you'd only have a vague idea who Celene was, and no idea at all who Gaspard or Briala were. And not have much invested in what was going on besides "Big Bad wants Big Bad things to happen here" This is why I say outside material should not be required reading for a game.
Fortunately, having read and enjoyed TME, i was able to understand and enjoy it 
As for those other "world-changing" ideas: Well, yes, those would be major deed, but they would also fundamentally shift Thedas in ways that would in essence scrap the setting. Restore the Golden City? Discover the truth of Andraste? End the darkspawn taint? You' be getting into ME3 territory where there's nothing left to do but leave the galaxy.
The only problem with Halamshiral was you were essentially required to read the Masked Empire to have a clue what was going on there. Otherwise you'd only have a vague idea who Celene was, and no idea at all who Gaspard or Briala were. And not have much invested in what was going on besides "Big Bad wants Big Bad things to happen here" THis is why I say outside material should not be required reading fro a game.
Fortunately, having read and enjoyed TME, i was able to understand and enjoy it
As for those other "world-changing" ideas: Well, yes, those would be major deed, but they would also fundamentally shift Thedas in ways that would in essence scrap the setting. Restore teh Golden City? Discover the truth of Andraste? End the darkspawn taint? You' be getting into ME3 territory where there's nothing left to do but leave the galaxy.
I didn't read TME and only knew these characters from arguments I read on the forums... since there was almost no information on any of them in-game (not that I noticed, anyway...), my Inquisitor had no reason to deviate from the initial plan to find the assassin and save Celene. All of the extra stuff where you could side with Gaspard or Briala or both Celene and Briala, etc, was lost on me. It was still a good quest, however...
As for this topic... I thought the story was alright, but I would have been happier if they'd explained more of the lore rather than just leaving old questions unanswered while introducing even more mysteries... how many years are we supposed to wait to find out what's going on in this setting?
I wonder why you bothered to play all of those past BW games when, surely, any reasonably intelligent person could have recognized that BW followed a certain pattern in the majority of their games. And you...apparently kept buying the games despite that? As for Corypheus, maybe enough of your neurons weren't firing while you were playing DA:I - which is all I have to say about it.
I swear, BW is damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to their games. If they'd had more main story content, things would have been even better, I wanted a number of things fleshed out as well, but so be it. And I may be in the minority as far as the Winter Palace goes, but I enjoyed that quest because it was definitely something different than I've done in the past and involved a little diplomacy, having to be clever when speaking, and the time management.
Why don't you just split now and save everyone the trouble, because I doubt that ME4 is going to deviate much from the pattern. It's really all about execution, not the archetype. Oh, and I'm also in the minority on DA2 since I liked the story being told on a smaller scale. I can, however, also roll with the typical big bad as well. I thought that the narrative led to some interesting revelations, and I enjoyed it overall.
lol, Mass Effect 3 was basically DAO in space - barely escape devastating invasion, go around gathering allies, then return for final push, profit.
I love this type of story. I have no complaints.
Yes, but once again, they throw curveballs and the ending is vastly different.
Sorry no quote because ipad only pastes into the address bar, not the text field. Seriously, is being a braindead monkey a requirement for working for Apple?
Well, it would have been kinda hard to pull of that Herald of Andraste stuff if everyone had always known thatSpoiler
Everyone else wouldn't have known, all the witnesses would be dead in the explosion.
While you have a point... Your tone is horrendous and your attitude is disgusting. You blame them when you clearly know the kind of backlash that happened because of DA2, without any kind of respect or sensibility you continue to trash them and the story which you clearly didn't bother figuring out more about before making a thread attacking it. Then you attack them and call them cowards because they want to please the fans... What the freaking hell?Oh I'm sorry when you're an AAA title developer there's a lot of pressure to deliver a game that pleases, especially after receiving massive backlash. Then you go on and about how Bioware's fanbase isn't 'smart', I cannot even comment on how you thought it was okay to say that.
TL;DR humble yourself. Learn some basic manners and respect, then learn about what you want to argue about, THEN post about it on the forums.
Yes, I blame them, because they gave in, threw their hands up, and went back to recycling their plots, just because the fans "didn't like it". I don't mean just criticizing flaws, I mean missing the point of the story and what Bioware wanted to tell. DA2 was indeed flawed, but it was its execution, not its concept, that was flawed. Now it seems DA2 has the best plot in the franchise. go figure. DA2 was about helplessness, about being a leaf in the wind. That was the point.
I figured it out, I figured out that Corypherus simply put, isn;t a well fleshed out villian and they had a game and a DLC to do so. Codex entries aren;t enough, its called "showing, not telling". Hell, once again, The Catalyst is a better villain than Corphyeus.
And really, do you know the difference between pleasing the fans and being slaves to fans to where everythig has to be fan service? Look at the Witcher series and CDP Red, now that they are also AAA. Do they make games that pleases the fans? Absolutely. But do they let fans run what they write? Do they let fans dictate how they write the story? No. And the fan base is smart enough not to beg for things, to trust the company, to not have a huge cry when they fail (like TW2's endgame), and actually follow the story when it gets complex and less formulaic. They are not slaves to fan service and the fans still like them, Why can't Bioware be the same? I know why. Because a lot of this fan base has become a romance obssesed mob who favors power fantasy over storytelling. Bioware simply isn't brave enough to stand up to them.
I am not calling them cowards for just pleasing the fans.
snip
Weren't you the same person on the old forums who completely dumped on anything that wasn't ME3? Because I remember you being called "trollrush" by a large number of people.
I wonder why you bothered to play all of those past BW games when, surely, any reasonably intelligent person could have recognized that BW followed a certain pattern in the majority of their games. And you...apparently kept buying the games despite that? As for Corypheus, maybe enough of your neurons weren't firing while you were playing DA:I - which is all I have to say about it.
I swear, BW is damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to their games. If they'd had more main story content, things would have been even better, I wanted a number of things fleshed out as well, but so be it. And I may be in the minority as far as the Winter Palace goes, but I enjoyed that quest because it was definitely something different than I've done in the past and involved a little diplomacy, having to be clever when speaking, and the time management.
Why don't you just split now and save everyone the trouble, because I doubt that ME4 is going to deviate much from the pattern. It's really all about execution, not the archetype. Oh, and I'm also in the minority on DA2 since I liked the story being told on a smaller scale. I can, however, also roll with the typical big bad as well. I thought that the narrative led to some interesting revelations, and I enjoyed it overall.
You are not in the minority trust me , many loved that quest , the whiners are just louder is all.
Honestly, this game did it much better than ME2 IMO. You had a large galaxy in ME2 and you had to go around and prepare yourself to take on the Collectors, but nothing you did felt much connected to the actual plot of the game. All of your companion loyalty quests were disconnected to the game's story line but had to be done if you wanted them to live in the end. All of the planet scanning was an even more boring time sink than grinding around large open areas full of lore notes and quests that either help you build your organization's impact and power or have to do with whittling away the impact and power of your main story line foes - Venatori or Red Templars and their allies.
In this sense, they did an ME2 style game story better than ME2 IMO. I never lost sense of what I was working toward, and my play through ran over 120 hours. And if you think about it, there were roughly the same number of main story missions here as there were in ME2.
Weren't you the same person on the old forums who completely dumped on anything that wasn't ME3? Because I remember you being called "trollrush" by a large number of people.
It's Mr. Noyoujustdon'tgetit
Weren't you the same person on the old forums who completely dumped on anything that wasn't ME3? Because I remember you being called "trollrush" by a large number of people.
And I care how? Because I had the balls to like an ending the mob didn't like (at least after the extended cut).
Because basically the mob was moronic, instead of even attempting to meet the writers halfway, they cry about how they didn't get what they wanted, instead of really attempting to judge the ME3 ending for what it was. Whats really unbelievable is how this mob didn't even follow the damn story, pick up on the foreshadowing, or even attempt to understand the villain and how he relates to the theme of the series and the lore. Its like how the people who didn't like the Sopranos ending didn't look for the clues why the show faded to black. So now we are back to simple cliched storytelling with no real risks with an ending recycled from a past game.
And I care how? Because I had the balls to like an ending the mob didn't like (at least after the extended cut).
Because basically the mob was moronic, instead of even attempting to meet the writers halfway, they cry about how they didn't get what they wanted, instead of really attempting to judge the ME3 ending for what it was. Whats really unbelievable is how this mob didn't even follow the damn story, pick up on the foreshadowing, or even attempt to understand the villain and how he relates to the theme of the series and the lore. Its like how the people who didn't like the Sopranos ending didn't look for the clues why the show faded to black. So now we are back to simple cliched storytelling with no real risks with an ending recycled from a past game.
Oh, the irony!!!
You are not in the minority trust me , many loved that quest , the whiners are just louder is all.
The problem with that quest is that its Kasumi Stolen Memory IV.
Oh, the irony!!!
No, I undertsand the theme of the villian in DAI, he was just a weak, not fleshed out villain. In fact the problem with DAI's villain is that thematically, he is not fleshed out.
And seeing that you like MEHEM, you are part of that mob. What a way to dumb down that story.
And I care how? Because I had the balls to like an ending the mob didn't like (at least after the extended cut).
Because basically the mob was moronic, instead of even attempting to meet the writers halfway, they cry about how they didn't get what they wanted, instead of really attempting to judge the ME3 ending for what it was. Whats really unbelievable is how this mob didn't even follow the damn story, pick up on the foreshadowing, or even attempt to understand the villain and how he relates to the theme of the series and the lore. Its like how the people who didn't like the Sopranos ending didn't look for the clues why the show faded to black. So now we are back to simple cliched storytelling with no real risks with an ending recycled from a past game.
You either have a highly selective memory, or you're straight-up lying, because there were PLENTY of posts that pointed out exactly what was wrong with the endings. There was also nothing in the way of any mob mentality. The consensus on the BSN was a fair 60/40 split in favor of disliking the endings. 60/40 is NOT a "mob". I've already spoken my piece on why the ME3 endings are bad on the old forums, so I'll just say that there was good reason for people to have disdain, and it's not because of some condescending notion of them being stupid or unable to follow what was going on.
No, I undertsand the theme of the villian in DAI, he was just a weak, not fleshed out villain. In fact the problem with DAI's villain is that thematically, he is not fleshed out.
And seeing that you like MEHEM, you are part of that mob. What a way to dumb down that story.
Except he was fleshed out, you probably didn't bother to look at it
And I like that you randomly tried to bring up MEHEM which has nothing to do with DA:I
Retour en haut
