203 réponses à ce sujet

[Potatoespotate]

 

The connection is "saving Thedas from itself"

 

The guy is the embodiment of what Thedas needs saving from.  One of the magister of old, with the hubris to storm the Golden city twice.  Who represents the worst qualities of the Imperium!  Who brought about the Blights!  And now he's manipulating the mages, Templars, Grey Wardens, Chantry, and Orlais to cause more chaos in his plans to become a god.

 

He truly embodies the qualities that brought about the chaos onThedas

 

I like this. Corypheus is chaos, the Inquisitor is order.

[Basement Cat]

Not really, just another ancient evil with very tenous connection with the current Thedas.

And that is the theme. The Dalish? Concerned with reclaiming their lost heritage. Orlais? Concerned with its own glory. Tevinter? Concerned with its own glory. The Qun? Concerned with forcing their views on the world. The Chantry? Concerned with forcing their views on the world. Ferelden? Concerned with recovering from the Blight. Etc.

 

Everything is disconnected. That is the theme.

[txgoldrush]

ME3 fell down because the problem you faced was so insurmountable that realistically, you were never going to succeed. It would have been daft to win. 

 

Bioware didn't fix anything with the extended cut,  it's impossible to fix ME3 ending without changing the entire series, but they did offer a little more exposition to their, well, original offering of "none". 

 

Not much of a debate with Kefka either I reckon. He was never going to change his mind. Neither was Terra. They might as well have been talking to themselves, rehearsing their own justifications.

She doesn't have to change his mind, all that is neccessary was to establish the theme of the conflict. Nevermind finding out what to live for was part of Terra's character development.

 

DAI never really achieves this. Once again, the final level is too blame, but really the big problem with DAI is lt really likes to tell about things, not show them anyway.

 

Wrong, the entire series of Mass Effect, from the plot to the lore to the themes, was about how destinies of one are controlled by others and the conflicts and consquences that result from this. THIS IS HOW THE CATALYST FITS THE SERIES!!!!!! Althroughout th eseries, Shepard makes decisions which alter the destiny of everyone else. The ending is no different. The thematic contrast between protagonist and antagonist is that while Shepard is aware of these conflicts and consquences, the antagonists (and some allies like the salarians and Quarians) do not, they do things blindly. Its not that hard to undersatnd. And the catalyst is this theme twice over.

[Nyctyris]

I am not sure theme and thematic mean what you think they do.

What exactly is the thematic connection kefka has with the protagonists?_? For example.



Not that tthere is much point in arguing with someone who worships the ending of me3. In any capacity. If you can't see the plethora of things wrong with it on your own, I am unlikely to be able to explain it to you.

[txgoldrush]

I am not sure theme and thematic mean what you think they do.

What exactly is the thematic connection kefka has with the protagonists?_? For example.



Not that tthere is much point in arguing with someone who worships the ending of me3. In any capacity. If you can't see the plethora of things wrong with it on your own, I am unlikely to be able to explain it to you.

Kefka feels that life is meaningless and baiscally wants to "prove it", the protagonists do not. Althroughout the World of Ruin you are trying to have the characters find meaning in their lives, a reason to live, and the fight against Kefka is the end point of that.

 

And really, after the extended cut, there is not much wrong with the ME3 endings, other than maybe the fact that synthesis is contrived. Well I don;t have to pick it, move along. Hell, ifind the Paragon control being my fitting end to the series.

 

DAI fails to really establish the conflict between the inquisitons order and Cory's chaos other than just telling the player about it (outside the Hushed Whispers mission but thats before the villian appears). And the big reason is the story is basically rushed and not very big. Lot of execution and pacing problems. And the entire final level and boss fight was weak both storywise and gameplaywise. Its wierd how the conforntation in Haven was more fleshed out than the endgame.

[Dova]

I think after the lash DA2 got it made the DA writers want to play it more safe. It was a kick in the ass & I think that's why they got an extended year so they could have more time with it.

If you look at a lot of Inquisitions stuff in the Wiki it shows what was added in their extended release.

Like Cullen, for example, was made a romanceable character when he was originally not supposed to. (thank you Bioware because he has one of the best romances I've seen sense Garrus.)

 

I think it's difference of opinion when it comes to peoples expectations. I had went in with a "medium" level of expectation so I wouldn't get butt hurt like a lot of people if the game was utter shit.

I'm perfectly pleased with the game's outcome and eagerly awaiting DLC and patches.

*tips hat* 

[txgoldrush]

And that is the theme. The Dalish? Concerned with reclaiming their lost heritage. Orlais? Concerned with its own glory. Tevinter? Concerned with its own glory. The Qun? Concerned with forcing their views on the world. The Chantry? Concerned with forcing their views on the world. Ferelden? Concerned with recovering from the Blight. Etc.

 

Everything is disconnected. That is the theme.

No its not.

 

If they wanted to utilize the theme you were talking about, use a current villian, not an ancient evil.

 

The theme of Dragon Age really is belief and how belief can be flawed. As much as they do it well on the protagonist side, the overall story of DAI fails to capitalize totally on this. It falls back to cliches and Bioware formula instead of branching out and telling a story that fits the theme better.

 

I think after the lash DA2 got it made the DA writers want to play it more safe. It was a kick in the ass & I think that's why they got an extended year so they could have more time with it.

If you look at a lot of Inquisitions stuff in the Wiki it shows what was added in their extended release.

Like Cullen, for example, was made a romanceable character when he was originally not supposed to. (thank you Bioware because he has one of the best romances I've seen sense Garrus.)

 

I think it's difference of opinion when it comes to peoples expectations. I had went in with a "medium" level of expectation so I wouldn't get butt hurt like a lot of people if the game was utter shit.

I'm perfectly pleased with the game's outcome and eagerly awaiting DLC and patches.

*tips hat* 

Here is the problem, they learned the wrong lessons from DA2. they learned to not tell a story that challenges the audience. they learned that choice is more important than the actual plot or its themes, and they learned it seems that the problem with DA2 is that it wasn't big or "epic" enough.

 

Instead of learning that 95% of DA2's problems were because it was rushed out the door.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

That would ruin his cool factor.

I agree with this, if Corypheus had appeared alot it would have lessened his threat since we'd be regularly getting the better of him personally, i always thought the threat of the Geth & Cerberus was pretty much diluted almost completely considering Shepard spends so much time destroying them with apparent ease despite their frightening in world reputation, im glad Cory didn't suffer the same fate

[AresKeith]

No its not.

 

If they wanted to utilize the theme you were talking about, use a current villian, not an ancient evil.

 

The theme of Dragon Age really is belief and how belief can be flawed. As much as they do it well on the protagonist side, the overall story of DAI fails to capitalize totally on this. It falls back to cliches and Bioware formula instead of branching out and telling a story that fits the theme better.

 

Seriously you do this everytime, Dragon Age nor Mass Effect does not have one sole theme

[txgoldrush]

Seriously you do this everytime, Dragon Age nor Mass Effect does not have one sole theme

Wrong, stories always have one main theme.

 

Stories can have many themes, but one is always the most important.

[Dova]

Here is the problem, they learned the wrong lessons from DA2. they learned to not tell a story that challenges the audience. they learned that choice is more important than the actual plot or its themes, and they learned it seems that the problem with DA2 is that it wasn't big or "epic" enough.

 

Instead of learning that 95% of DA2's problems were because it was rushed out the door.

The game probably would of been worse if they didn't do the extended year though is a point people miss. And it was good enough to win 2 video game awards.

DA2 was rushed that much is clear the first hour you're in it. I still found DA2 enjoyable over Origins but that's a debate for another topic I derail threads way too much.

[mrs_anomaly]

Ok OP. 

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

People need to see its not the plot I'm more interested how i shape up when then chaos is gone that being Cory is Chaotic Evil villian and The Inquisition is Lawful Good religious order imo whom the inquisitor had trial and error to be what he is. The side quests over shadow the main plot. 

[txgoldrush]

People need to see its not the plot I'm more interested how i shape up when then chaos is gone that being Cory is Chaotic Evil villian and The Inquisition is Lawful Good religious order imo whom the inquisitor had trial and error to be what he is. The side quests over shadow the main plot. 

Which is bad. Many reviews say that the sidequests do detract from the focus of the story, with whole regions being optional and without plot purpose.

 

DAI simply has a lot of problems, from weak plot, to many weak filler content, to stocking with tried and true instead of being innovative. Its simply not a classic Bioware game. And many games do things better than DAI, and the Suikdoen series, at least the first three, does DAI recruit followers and build castle gameplay, far better than DAI. And Skyhold is no North Window Castle from Suikoden II.

[txgoldrush]

The game probably would of been worse if they didn't do the extended year though is a point people miss. And it was good enough to win 2 video game awards.

DA2 was rushed that much is clear the first hour you're in it. I still found DA2 enjoyable over Origins but that's a debate for another topic I derail threads way too much.

There was no competition. Dark Souls II was released too early, Bayonetta II isn't for everyone, and there have been many overhyped games that faltered. And many anticipated games like The Witcher 3 got moved to next year. DAI won by default, but this year was a down year in game quality.

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

If you want followers you should try crusade kings II much better then Suikoden II ..im abit off topic xD. Still i think DA:I is much better then some standalone RPG game.

[txgoldrush]

If you want followers you should try crusade kings II much better then Suikoden II ..im abit off topic xD. Still i think DA:I is much better then some standalone RPG game.

Suikoden II has a far better plot, far better, one of the best ever for a JRPG. And unlike anything Bioware has done, it is far more original, especially its twist and who the main antagonist actually is.

 

And what do you know, very recent news, rejoice.

http://blog.us.plays...-coming-to-psn/

 

And Suikoden II's castle is a wonder to behold, so much to do there the more Stars of Destiny you pick up.

[TheLastArchivist]

I thought the story was alright, but I would have been happier if they'd explained more of the lore rather than just leaving old questions unanswered while introducing even more mysteries... how many years are we supposed to wait to find out what's going on in this setting?

Exactly my point. 

[TheLastArchivist]

I thought Cory was badass. But I couldn't help but feel sorry for him for some odd reason.

Y'know, after seeing that Epilogue, I kinda regretted killing him...I mean, look at what the Old Gods do. They manipulate human and elves straight away, with no remorse. Which is why Cory pridefully says he's no longer being manipulated by the Old Gods. He is -or was- the only creature in Thedas who TRULY knew what lay in the Beyond and what forces governed human and elven life, leading to the rise and fall of civilizations, such as Arlathan and the Tevinter Imperium.

 

I can't shake the feeling that the destruction of Arlathan was in fact a war between gods, with the elves serving as their soldiers. These spirits just led the elves to destroy themselves in the end. They'd have been better off not listening to these entities at all. And after that, they made the ancient Magisters of Tevinter tear the sky and corrupt the very essence of life, thus creating the Blight.

 

And then, Solas gives his orb to Corypheus because "he couldn't make it work". Again, an Old God ruins everything and mortals have to go and find some way to fix it while getting slaughtered by cultists and demons.

 

 

Am I the only one noticing the pattern here? That these gods, spirits or whatever the **** they are basically lead to the destruction of life with their constant meddling in the affairs of the physical world? First, they pretend to be spiritual guides. They help the living build a civilization. They teach them the mysteries of magic. Said civilization reaches its pinnacle.

 

Then, at some point, their interference has unexpected results and everything crumbles. Millions die, a civilization disappears and another is formed from the ashes of the old one, with another people, who will YET AGAIN listen to the Old Gods's infernal whispering and become amazed at their knowledge of magic and all the possibilities and promises of power it presents.

 

Shouldn't these gods just remain in the Fade,or the Beyond and never again incarnate in Thedas, allowing thedosians the right to govern themselves?

 

Will this be an issue present in DA 4 (if it ever comes out)?

[MuhSHEEN]

There's more depth to Cory and the ending then people realize. He was power hungry and wanted to rule yes, but did anyone stop to think that he might actually be right? The Inquisition's main objective is stopping Cory from becoming a God who states that the Maker doesn't even exist. There is NO ONE in DAI that has any hard, legitimate evidence to prove that the Maker DOES exist. Just like real life, societies are built after war, and Cory wants to ascend to Godhood so he can destroy the Chantry (a religion worshipping something that doesn't exist) and unify Thedas. Harsh methods for possibly a noble and yet selfish purpose. 

 

Another Theory: Fen'Harel is actually a hero for sealing away the Elven Gods. The Ancient Elves met in the Temple of Mythal state that the Elves destroyed each other rather then by the Imperium. I believe that the Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones warred against one another and this caused the Elven race to split and choose sides. 

 

We have no evidence disproving Cory's and the Ancient Elves' claims. If all this adds up, then the entire Chantry is a lie and therefore all Believers are wrong which would completely turn the Dragon Age world upside down. All things Maker-related in the last 1000 years was false... can you imagine if such a thing happened in real life? An underlying implication of all this is that the Maker, which is supposed to provide solace and comfort doesn't exist, and the Elven Gods, who the Dalish worship were actually selfish beings that caused Elvenhan to crumble?

 

If this actually was the case then the Dragon Age series definitely has a pretty unique theme: Gods and Religion are not to be trusted (within the DA universe... i'm not going to apply this theme to real life for obvious reasons).

 

...Or maybe I could be completely wrong. Maybe the Maker does exist and simply did not show himself to Cory. Maybe Fen'Harel is actually the future main antagonist and wants to take the Black City for himself. I don't know. 

 

I'll agree the pacing is a bit iffy, but the story has SO many implications and possibilities that I'm inclined to believe that people saying it's boring and cliched are only looking at the story of Dragon Age at face value. I haven't been this entranced with a world and lore since the Diablo, Elder Scrolls, and Witcher series. 

 

PS: Originality and Innovation are vastly overrated. Most movies/games that try to be different have about a 1/1000 chance of actually being considered amazing on a universal level. Cliched stories and villains are cliched for reason: Most people like them. Beat the bad buy and save the world? Hundreds of RPGs do this and still succeed. 

 

PPS: You said the story was predictable? So you predicted that Flemeth was Mythal and Solas was Fen'Harel? You predicted that Solas was the one who gave Cory the orb and that the Ancient Elves weren't actually defeated by the Imperium? That's a complete lie unless you've got yourself a crystal ball. There's so much wrong to point out about your post but I simply don't have the time. 

[Mushashi7]

I remember the movie 'Out of Africa'.

It had Merryl Streep in the main role as Karen Blixen, the danish writer who married a noble named Denys Finch Hatton, just to get his name  and step up in society. In return he got her money.

In the beginning of the movie you fly above Africa, seeing the most beautifull sceneries. It takes a while and you enjoy the view.
Quietly Merryl Streep starts talking with the dry voice of an older lady:

"Dennis always loved a story told well...."

This sentence has stayed in my mind ever since.

And that's what it is all about: To serve a story in the best manner posible. It really doesn't matter what the story is.

I do think Bioware presented a good story told well.

[txgoldrush]

There's more depth to Cory and the ending then people realize. He was power hungry and wanted to rule yes, but did anyone stop to think that he might actually be right? The Inquisition's main objective is stopping Cory from becoming a God who states that the Maker doesn't even exist. There is NO ONE in DAI that has any hard, legitimate evidence to prove that the Maker DOES exist. Just like real life, societies are built after war, and Cory wants to ascend to Godhood so he can destroy the Chantry (a religion worshipping something that doesn't exist) and unify Thedas. Harsh methods for possibly a noble and yet selfish purpose. 

 

Another Theory: Fen'Harel is actually a hero for sealing away the Elven Gods. The Ancient Elves met in the Temple of Mythal state that the Elves destroyed each other rather then by the Imperium. I believe that the Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones warred against one another and this caused the Elven race to split and choose sides. 

 

We have no evidence disproving Cory's and the Ancient Elves' claims. If all this adds up, then the entire Chantry is a lie and therefore all Believers are wrong which would completely turn the Dragon Age world upside down. All things Maker-related in the last 1000 years was false... can you imagine if such a thing happened in real life? An underlying implication of all this is that the Maker, which is supposed to provide solace and comfort doesn't exist, and the Elven Gods, who the Dalish worship were actually selfish beings that caused Elvenhan to crumble?

 

If this actually was the case then the Dragon Age series definitely has a pretty unique theme: Gods and Religion are not to be trusted (within the DA universe... i'm not going to apply this theme to real life for obvious reasons).

 

...Or maybe I could be completely wrong. Maybe the Maker does exist and simply did not show himself to Cory. Maybe Fen'Harel is actually the future main antagonist and wants to take the Black City for himself. I don't know. 

 

I'll agree the pacing is a bit iffy, but the story has SO many implications and possibilities that I'm inclined to believe that people saying it's boring and cliched are only looking at the story of Dragon Age at face value. I haven't been this entranced with a world and lore since the Diablo, Elder Scrolls, and Witcher series. 

 

PS: Originality and Innovation are vastly overrated. Most movies/games that try to be different have about a 1/1000 chance of actually being considered amazing on a universal level. Cliched stories and villains are cliched for reason: Most people like them. Beat the bad buy and save the world? Hundreds of RPGs do this and still succeed. 

 

PPS: You said the story was predictable? So you predicted that Flemeth was Mythal and Solas was Fen'Harel? You predicted that Solas was the one who gave Cory the orb and that the Ancient Elves weren't actually defeated by the Imperium? That's a complete lie unless you've got yourself a crystal ball. There's so much wrong to point out about your post but I simply don't have the time. 

Here is the problem...the depth of the villain isn't properly used. All he does is antagonize, he doesn't really debate the protagonist unlike the Mass Effect villains like Saren and the conflict of ideas never really occurs because the endgame is so rushed. He simply is not in the game very long and his ideology is not prominant.

 

I did predict Solas and Flemeth to be more than they are. I do think I saw Flemeth as Mythal coming since the Dalish were involved in her coming back in DA2.

 

And Biowares problem is more than just the save the world from the villain cliche. Its that they recycle plot elements and formula over and over again. See Bioware Cliche chart. Its as bad as the Final Fantasy series in the late 90's.

 

Here is to the expansion that actually breaks formula, like DA2 did.

[Reznore57]

I'm not fond of Cory for numerous reasons , I think it was lacking in execution after the Haven debacle (I think it's the highlight of the game when it comes to Cory vs the world).

 

But the overall theme is there and it's not bad , we've been told it's about faith and doubts , and it's pretty much what is happening.

Before DAI , a lot of people felt like the Chantry was failing them , and Haven was the last chance to reinforce faith and unite people.

Cory , also having his own faith issue ( throne of gods empty blablabla) destroy everything.

From this destruction , rise the Inquisitor , and he /she is someone people wants to believe in.

The Inquisitor doesn't need red lyrium , or a fake archdemon , or a bunch of despererate cultist , people genuinely believe in him/her.

 

I would say the story basically says people create their own Gods , and one can not make a claim of godhood just because.

For Cory the throne of " gods" is always going to be empty , even if he sits in it .

[txgoldrush]

I remember the movie 'Out of Africa'.

It had Merryl Streep in the main role as Karen Blixen, the danish writer who married a noble named Denys Finch Hatton, just to get his name  and step up in society. In return he got her money.

In the beginning of the movie you fly above Africa, seeing the most beautifull sceneries. It takes a while and you enjoy the view.
Quietly Merryl Streep starts talking with the dry voice of an older lady:

"Dennis always loved a story told well...."

And that's what it is all about: To serve a story in the best manner posible. It really doesn't matter what the story is.

DAI actually isn't told well. It has many problems that I am finding my second playthrough. This is what happens when the plot is so rushed, and Bioware having a tendecy to tell, not show. Hell, the story really doesn't portray the conflicts of Thedas well, such as the war in Orlais.

 

And coming from the strongly focused and plot driven ME3, DAI is a shock in a bad way.

[TheLastArchivist]

Did the others never return from the Black City?  There is no record even of our names!  We are vilified by legend.  They spit on our deeds and claim we brought darkness into the world.  We discovered the darkness.  We claim it as our own, let it permeate our being. I f the others have not returned, they are lost. I am alone in my glory.

I wonder if Corypheus knows that the darkness he discovered might as well have been a reflexion in the Fade of his own mind and heart. The Golden City might have been there all along, but the moment the Fade was torn wide open, it instantly converted into Corypheus and the other six Magisters's feelings. And what feelings were those?

 

We must remember they were filled with nothing but a brimming lust for power when they ventured into the Fade. The desire to possess the power of the gods. The "throne", as stated in one of the Codexes.  

 

(The Chantry later interpreted this throne as being literally a real throne, the so-called seat of the Maker. But it wasn't so to Tevinter Magisters. To them, it was the epicentre of all magic power, called throne for Maker knows what reasons. Maybe it was a mistranslation of the original word. Tevinter does use the elven vocabulary.)

 

Mother Giselle does tell us the Fade is but a mirror of whomever enters it. And that's what the Circles also tell us. So Corypheus could never find the Golden City, no matter how hard he tried, because the Fade is impermanent. Maybe the Golden City doesn't even exist. Maybe there IS a throne, a source of all magic, such as the Old Gods have allegedly whispered to the seven chosen Magisters. But it might be that no mortal has the purity of soul to actually find it amidst an ever-changing world.

 

Which renders Corypheus's search for the Power of the Heavens absolutely futile in the end.