203 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

I agree with this, if Corypheus had appeared alot it would have lessened his threat since we'd be regularly getting the better of him personally, i always thought the threat of the Geth & Cerberus was pretty much diluted almost completely considering Shepard spends so much time destroying them with apparent ease despite their frightening in world reputation, im glad Cory didn't suffer the same fate

I kinda like the idea of Corypheus being our Newman for just how silly and routine the relationship would become.

"Hello, Cory"

[Mistress9Nine]

TLDR version: final battle sucked. Pacing is way off. WOT version below.

 

What I disliked is that the ending was so fragmented and thus totally dimished in it's value. I don't just mean the final battle, I think the endgame begins sort of at or after Adamant, but then there are way too many locations for you to be engaged in any way. The siege of Adamant was the final piece of the story that had a sense of significance to me. It was a large and coherent story element.

 

Then you hear that Cory is marching towards the Arbor Wilds with his entire army! I thought "Golly, this will be our final battle!", but then it was just sort of 5 red templars fighting 2 inquisition soldiers around the bushes on your way to the temple. It was really lame, especially considering that in previous battles (Haven, Adamant and to some extent the Exalted Plains) BioWare successfully imitated a large scale battle without actually having a 5000 soldiers in the field.

 

I LOVED the ancient elven temple but it was so extremely disappointing that it contained no more than 5 no-brainer puzzles (though I guess we should be thankful that they weren't Towers of Hanoi). I thought that exploring the tample, getting all these cool codex entries and forgotten lore would tie into the puzzles in some way, but apparently all elves had to do was just walk around in silly circles to gain their god's favour. And then it was all over way too quick with an extremely lackluster boss battle.

 

I won't even validate the last two locations (the Dragon battle and the Cory battle) with separate entries in this post. Basically you click a button on the wartable and boom! Barely any build-up, just staright to the fight. 

 

The biggest problem is that it is not a forced sequence. I found myself most engaged at the end in the elements where I had little control, like running after Morrigan in the Fade. Whereas the fact that I'm given the opportunity to walk around Skyhold and craft and go back to the Emprise to kill some dragons for an hour totally rips away any build-up thus making the Cory fight about as exciting as the Qunari-Venatori battle in the Storm Coast, just without the cool companion interaction and decision-making.

 

The fact that the final battle is way too boring and easy doesn't help either. I was level 23 when I dealt with Cory, same level as when I went to kill the german dragon in the Emprise. That dragon fight took way more effort than what was supposed to be the climax of the entire game (though mostly because the dragon kept spamming guard, which I'm not happy about either). I'm not a fan of boss battle gimmicks, like having to destroy protective generators and fighing off summons, but come on! There was literally no effort made on that final battle by BioWare to make it remotely interesting. I used possibly 2-3 healing potions and even that was just because his dragon made the wing-wind attack. Cory just goes to some random location, elevates the ground and then is pounded to filth. I know it is sort of explained that it is Cory's pride that doesn't let him go off and regenerate his forces, but seriously? That is some lame excuse for the lack of effort on the final battle.

[hafiznero]

agree..boring storyline. da 2 better story

[TEWR]

Funny. Back when DAII was released, people were going "WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO TO SOMETHING ELSE. THE SAVE THE WORLD PLOT WAS FAMILIAR AND AWESOME".

 

Bioware does that this time around, and some of those same people end up going "GOD THIS IS SO BORING AND CLICHE. SAVE THE WORLD PLOTS ARE STUPID".

 

Can't win.

 

I have my issues thus far with how the story of DAI is being done (particularly how all the wars going on are shown poorly and how after Skyhold every main quest -- which are really great but would be great ways to end a climactic arc in the story -- are standalone.) but still....

 

That isn't to say there aren't legitimate grievances being said. I haven't finished the game (and thus I'm refraining from reading posts on here), but it's assured that there are those types of people out there, where nothing is ever good enough for them.

[gothicshark]

I think someone played a different game than I did. Sure you weren't playing (massively popular MMORPG which just did a time travel plot right out of Star Trek)
 

And then there is Corypheus,

 
OK, for starters, the Elder One, is one of the most subtle and complex villains I have seen in years. He is complex and has true depth of reason that a real person would have. 
 
- He started out as a Priest of a God who summoned him and had him and his fellow priests assault the 'Golden City', only to find that it was Empty and Blighted, this unleashed the first Blight. 
- After 1000 years he is back, he has his mind and is not a mindless darkspawn.
-He learns how to transfer his soul the same way an arch-demon can.
-He finds a world were mages are enslaved or worse.
-He finds a world were there are no gods interacting with people.
-He finds a world where his homeland is a pale shadow of the mighty empire it once was.
- his solution, try and become the God the world needs.
 
His motivation is logical and sound, he goals could be justified as good, granted he is evil, but that is mainly because he believes in the Ends justify the means, and his means are really evil. I would say he is one of the better villains in gaming today. The thing is you have to pay attention to the details, because a lot of DA:I is not spoon feed, you have to read to understand what is actually going on.
 
As to risks? Next Generation Game Engine, Choosing to break up the 25 hour main story in such a way as to encourage 200+Hours of game play. Really getting in depth with character development, Cole, Solas, Dorian, and Iron Bull are Characters America is not really ready for.
 
Honestly the flattest Character in the game is Blackwall, until you get to his special Storyline, and then that Flatness is rich and makes perfect sense. 
 
Each of the minor conflicts could easily be the main story in most lesser game, but here they are the side stories which provide a colorful backdrop of a living world. 
 
-The Chantry is in chaos
-Mage Templar War
-Orlesian Civil War

Then add in Ancient Evil trying to become a God, Of course then the final scene which make it even more complicated.

Spoiler

Ancient Gods trying to rip the veil from the World by giving powerful objects to Wannabe god mage-darkspawn

Seriously you must not have played the same game as I did.

[StingingVelvet]

They had the perfect setup with the ending of DA2. Could have had faction play with that too, where you could do missions for the mages or templars and shape the world. Instead we get a boring cliche plot with a really terrible main villain who's defeated halfway through the story.

 

So bad.

[Jazzpha]

I think BW kind of back themselves into a corner with Corypheus. So much of his history would, if explained explicitly, require confirmation of things Gaider has sworn multiple times to never confirm (does The Maker exist, etc.)

As a person, Cory was intriguing. As a piece of DA's broader cosmology, he's part of the highest echelon. It took us three games to finally dig deeper into Elven mysteries; who knows how long the older Tevinter mysteries will be lurking around for.

[txgoldrush]

I think someone played a different game than I did. Sure you weren't playing (massively popular MMORPG which just did a time travel plot right out of Star Trek)
 
 
OK, for starters, the Elder One, is one of the most subtle and complex villains I have seen in years. He is complex and has true depth of reason that a real person would have. 
 
- He started out as a Priest of a God who summoned him and had him and his fellow priests assault the 'Golden City', only to find that it was Empty and Blighted, this unleashed the first Blight. 
- After 1000 years he is back, he has his mind and is not a mindless darkspawn.
-He learns how to transfer his soul the same way an arch-demon can.
-He finds a world were mages are enslaved or worse.
-He finds a world were there are no gods interacting with people.
-He finds a world where his homeland is a pale shadow of the mighty empire it once was.
- his solution, try and become the God the world needs.
 
His motivation is logical and sound, he goals could be justified as good, granted he is evil, but that is mainly because he believes in the Ends justify the means, and his means are really evil. I would say he is one of the better villains in gaming today. The thing is you have to pay attention to the details, because a lot of DA:I is not spoon feed, you have to read to understand what is actually going on.
 
As to risks? Next Generation Game Engine, Choosing to break up the 25 hour main story in such a way as to encourage 200+Hours of game play. Really getting in depth with character development, Cole, Solas, Dorian, and Iron Bull are Characters America is not really ready for.
 
Honestly the flattest Character in the game is Blackwall, until you get to his special Storyline, and then that Flatness is rich and makes perfect sense. 
 
Each of the minor conflicts could easily be the main story in most lesser game, but here they are the side stories which provide a colorful backdrop of a living world. 
 
-The Chantry is in chaos
-Mage Templar War
-Orlesian Civil War

Then add in Ancient Evil trying to become a God, Of course then the final scene which make it even more complicated.

Spoiler

Ancient Gods trying to rip the veil from the World by giving powerful objects to Wannabe god mage-darkspawn

Seriously you must not have played the same game as I did.

 

But here is your two big problems. First, your wrong on several cases, and two, the game is more tell than show.

 

We don't get to see much of the battle between mages and Templars and it is resolved to quickly. We really don't get to see the Orlesian Civil War, DAI basically makes it a rushed conclusion to the Masked Empire. The chaos in the Chantry is more talked about by the characters, not shown in the plot. And Bioware is back to telling about character development than showing it, outside the major characters.

 

This game has its shallow characters, Dorian is a talking codex on Tevinter whose character quest storyline is only about that he is gay so thats why he ran. Sera is the shallowest character of the bunch, more comic relief. And Vivienne could have used a lot more development.

 

And the villian, once again, all tell, very little show. He is a very shallow character when it comes to the plotline.

 

Two major missteps in this game. Gameplay and story segregation, and too much reliance on lore instead of showing in a plot. Its back to the DAO tell don;t show, old Bioware problems again. Unlike ME2, ME3, and DA2, even SWTOR. Just when you think Bioware was coming out of that phase....ugh

 

DAI is simply not that great of a game in general. It takes no risks outside the new game engine. Nothing was innovated, nothing was evolved, and many ways, they take steps backwards from what actually worked in DA2.

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

 txgoldrush if you can make a better game go ahead stop bashing the game if you don't like it play something else, and can you make a better plot?

[KyndredRaven]

You know, I read through all the pages of this thread. Initially, I was super pissed to see someone bashing the game. I was going to write a defensive wall of text when I backed off, cooled down, and took time to understand that everyone has their own opinions. So instead  of bashing the bashers, I decided to share what I believe is the answer to everything: 

 

Fanfiction. 

 

I love the world of Thedas. I love the lore, the characters, the ideas, and the stories that I've played through. Yet despite my adoration, there are things that even I found to be lacking. The problem with it all is that it's a game. Bioware has done an incredible job making a "game" into an RPG, something that's as close to a living, breathing, book that we can get. The fact remains, however, that it is a game. Number crunches and statistics are a part of that. To make room for those elements, the developers and designers must make a compromise.

 

I believe they've done an incredible job with the franchise. Yes, at times their execution is a little wobbly. Yes, at times things are left unfinished. However, that is what the fans are here for. We write stories, spin tales with new endings, draw fanart with comics and new possibilities, and fill in the gaps that the game has left behind. 

 

If you truly feel slighted and you want to move on, OP - be our guest. I'm sure that your anger, bashing, and corrosive commentary won't be missed among us. 

[gothicshark]

This game has its shallow characters, Dorian is a talking codex on Tevinter whose character quest storyline is only about that he is gay so thats why he ran. Sera is the shallowest character of the bunch, more comic relief. And Vivienne could have used a lot more development.

See and this is how I know you didn't understand the game. Dorian quest had nothing to do with him being Gay, it had to do with arranged marriages and how societies force people into unhappy relationships for the betterment of the family name at the expense of the individuals happiness. Your small mindedness only saw the 'gay' and didn't understand the message at all. Your complaints of the game have very little to do with the flaws in the game, and more to your lack of understanding and inability to think out side the box of spoon fed story design.

 

But here is your two big problems. First, your wrong on several cases, and two, the game is more tell than show.

Show points of where I was wrong. Blankly saying "First, your wrong on several cases" and giving no examples is the same as lying to prove a point.

Also I'm horrible with grammar, but it's "you're" not "your". ie Your house.(you possess the house) You are a person. (You are a thing.)
 

We don't get to see much of the battle between mages and Templars and it is resolved to quickly. We really don't get to see the Orlesian Civil War, DAI basically makes it a rushed conclusion to the Masked Empire. The chaos in the Chantry is more talked about by the characters, not shown in the plot. And Bioware is back to telling about character development than showing it, outside the major characters.

You get to choose when you do each point in the main story, if you don't rush the main story, then while you explore each zone you directly interact in each conflict. However once you conclude each step, the combatants are removed from the game and replaced with main storyline antagonists, although not always. ie Mage Templar war, half of the hinterlands is non-stop war between the two factions until you either destroy their main camps or choose a side on the main quest-line, afterwards the battle zones in the hinterlands are emptied and you only get a few random Red Templar or Rebel Mages, since the war is concluded. I should also point out if finish the red lyrium quest-line it is impossible to finish the Mercenary Fortress Quest, as you have removed them from the game.
 

And the villian, once again, all tell, very little show. He is a very shallow character when it comes to the plotline.

once again you clearly are not playing the same game as we are, because we have a lot of his actions and his story to get through, about 100 hours of the 200 hours worth of game. Not to mention he was in the DLC of DA2. And we get non-stop text boxes to read ie orders, notes letters, and other lore that directly relates to him and his nature. We find out that he encouraged much of the chaos that you are fighting, and he has been playing a stealth war against the world for a few years now. But at this point I think the complexities of the character are beyond your ability to understand or grasp.
 

Two major missteps in this game. Gameplay and story segregation, and too much reliance on lore instead of showing in a plot. Its back to the DAO tell don;t show, old Bioware problems again. Unlike ME2, ME3, and DA2, even SWTOR. Just when you think Bioware was coming out of that phase....ugh

I get it, you want an American game where you don't have to think for yourself, where the story doesn't hint, and show clues, you want the villain to be at every turn going Muhahaha, while being just a two dimensional cardbord with a curled mustache. I totally get it now. I hear WOW has a timetravel reuse the old villains expansion, which has the right level of mindlessness you are seeking.
 

DAI is simply not that great of a game in general. It takes no risks outside the new game engine. Nothing was innovated, nothing was evolved, and many ways, they take steps backwards from what actually worked in DA2.

Once again not the game I played. I believe we all are entitled to our opinions even when they are wrong, but please go away, your negativity is unwanted.

[Z.Z]

You must have a short attention span. Reading the codices, letters, and notes help too. A lot of people use those codices, letters, and notes as a quick way to pick up XP, but hardly take the time to read them. Then they complain that they don't know what's going on.
 
You have legitimate concerns, but it would help if they weren't stooped in hyperbole. IMO DA:I could have used a more focused narrative. That's the gamble they made when they went open-world. If each area had cut scene content dedicated to the main quest line I don't think complaints in regards to the story would be as vitriolic.

I for one rarely read them because the devs chose to use the worst font ever.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Funny. Back when DAII was released, people were going "WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO TO SOMETHING ELSE. THE SAVE THE WORLD PLOT WAS FAMILIAR AND AWESOME".

 

Bioware does that this time around, and some of those same people end up going "GOD THIS IS SO BORING AND CLICHE. SAVE THE WORLD PLOTS ARE STUPID".

 

Can't win.

 

I have my issues thus far with how the story of DAI is being done (particularly how all the wars going on are shown poorly and how after Skyhold every main quest -- which are really great but would be great ways to end a climactic arc in the story -- are standalone.) but still....

 

That isn't to say there aren't legitimate grievances being said. I haven't finished the game (and thus I'm refraining from reading posts on here), but it's assured that there are those types of people out there, where nothing is ever good enough for them.

Su approves 50%

[txgoldrush]

a) See and this is how I know you didn't understand the game. Dorian quest had nothing to do with him being Gay, it had to do with arranged marriages and how societies force people into unhappy relationships for the betterment of the family name at the expense of the individuals happiness. Your small mindedness only saw the 'gay' and didn't understand the message at all. Your complaints of the game have very little to do with the flaws in the game, and more to your lack of understanding and inability to think out side the box of spoon fed story design.

 
Show points of where I was wrong. Blankly saying "First, your wrong on several cases" and giving no examples is the same as lying to prove a point.

Also I'm horrible with grammar, but it's "you're" not "your". ie Your house.(you possess the house) You are a person. (You are a thing.)
 
b ) You get to choose when you do each point in the main story, if you don't rush the main story, then while you explore each zone you directly interact in each conflict. However once you conclude each step, the combatants are removed from the game and replaced with main storyline antagonists, although not always. ie Mage Templar war, half of the hinterlands is non-stop war between the two factions until you either destroy their main camps or choose a side on the main quest-line, afterwards the battle zones in the hinterlands are emptied and you only get a few random Red Templar or Rebel Mages, since the war is concluded. I should also point out if finish the red lyrium quest-line it is impossible to finish the Mercenary Fortress Quest, as you have removed them from the game.
 
c) once again you clearly are not playing the same game as we are, because we have a lot of his actions and his story to get through, about 100 hours of the 200 hours worth of game. Not to mention he was in the DLC of DA2. And we get non-stop text boxes to read ie orders, notes letters, and other lore that directly relates to him and his nature. We find out that he encouraged much of the chaos that you are fighting, and he has been playing a stealth war against the world for a few years now. But at this point I think the complexities of the character are beyond your ability to understand or grasp.
 

d) I get it, you want an American game where you don't have to think for yourself, where the story doesn't hint, and show clues, you want the villain to be at every turn going Muhahaha, while being just a two dimensional cardbord with a curled mustache. I totally get it now. I hear WOW has a timetravel reuse the old villains expansion, which has the right level of mindlessness you are seeking.
 
Once again not the game I played. I believe we all are entitled to our opinions even when they are wrong, but please go away, your negativity is unwanted.

 

a) You missed the point. The problem with Dorian is that his character is simply all tell, no show. He shows no real development. And yes, he ran because he was gay. Thats a huge reason, not just of arranged marriage. I am not even criticizing this, I am criticizing that this is the extent of his character. No big mission to Tevinter, nothing.

 

b ) Sorry, but this doesn't fly. The game simply put does not portray the conflicts well. Even the mages/templars conflict in the Hinterlands is not portrayed well. And really the exploration takes away from the narrative focus of the game because its to much relying on fetch, kill, and other MMO style quests without much storytelling. Instead of being about settling th econflicts of Thedas, its about fighting the bad guys. Here is where DAI plaes very much in comparision to ME3, despite ripping it off. ME3 simply put, shows the conflicts between the races better, even while fighting the bad guys. DAI doesn't. The Orlesian Civil War is another event simply not touched upin enough, just like th emages and templars. Sorry, but the games story is so rushed. Its rushed to conclude not only the first two games, but some of the novels as well, it shows. The player isn;t shown the events, only told about them.

 

c) Which is pure lazy, because he doesn't have much plot content. Once again, all tell, no show. Even past Bioware games have more prominent villians that didn't rely on lore dumps and codex entries to explain his or her motives or actions. DAI does the lazy thing. Nevermind that the final battle is also rushed. No big thematic contrast between protagonist and antagonist, weak verbal conflict, nothing. Just a weak final boss battle, the end. DA2's final boss absolutely destroys DAI's. Nevermind I can actually debate and conflict with Meredith all thoroughout the third act. look at Shepard against Saren or The Illusive Man, or Revan against Malak (and now the SWTOR hero against Revan), now that real conflict that DAI lacks, and thats why they are more memorable villains than Corypheus will be. Face it, Cory is a very forgettable villain.

 

d) No, I want a well written game that actually shows its narrative, not just talks about it. Like many of the greatest RPGs of all time. Stop sticking up for old Bioware bad habits of talking codex entries, lore dumps, and weak character development because Bioware doesn't involve them in the plot outside the dueteragonist.

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

Still raving how bad the game is still txgoldrush did you know developers don't have time and money constraints is always an issue, and if they put all of what you want that would take forever make if you wanted a 3D world that is alive. Did you know of Expansions packs and DLC make up the story as it goes along, you are smalled minded you don't look at the bigger picture.

 

 

Do you work at Bioware? If not stop speculating.

 

No, I want a well written game that actually shows its narrative, not just talks about it. Like many of the greatest RPGs of all time. Stop sticking up for old Bioware bad habits of talking codex entries, lore dumps, and weak character development because Bioware doesn't involve them in the plot outside the dueteragonist.

 

 

[Maiafay]

No, I want a well written game that actually shows its narrative, not just talks about it. Like many of the greatest RPGs of all time. Stop sticking up for old Bioware bad habits of talking codex entries, lore dumps, and weak character development because Bioware doesn't involve them in the plot outside the dueteragonist.

Then perhaps you should apply for a writing job at Bioware?

And exactly how would you "show" all the points that "tell"? You need both in a story, not one or the other. Too much show and you have people confused; too much tell and you have people bored. I thought this game struck a nice balance of the two.

[txgoldrush]

Then perhaps you should apply for a writing job at Bioware?

And exactly how would you "show" all the points that "tell"? You need both in a story, not one or the other. Too much show and you have people confused; too much tell and you have people bored. I thought this game struck a nice balance of the two.

No it didn't...its almost as bad as DAO and a step back from DA2.

 

Bioware leans too heavily on the "tell" part, especially its character stories in the older games.

 

 

Still raving how bad the game is still txgoldrush did you know developers don't have time and money constraints is always an issue, and if they put all of what you want that would take forever make if you wanted a 3D world that is alive. Did you know of Expansions packs and DLC make up the story as it goes along, you are smalled minded you don't look at the bigger picture.

 

 

Do you work at Bioware? If not stop speculating.

How about Bioware stick to their strengths, which is storytelling and not waste most of their game on sidequest filler? Hell, DA2's secondary quests were more thoughtout, especially narrative wise, than DAI's side quests.

[Massa FX]

oh... it's you from ME3 forums. 

[myahele]

If its not broke why fix it? Other than some additions here and there the longest running/popular franchises remain pretty much the same.

[Potatoespotate]

I only have two issues with this game.

 

1. Bugs.

 

2. Story wasn't long enough.

 

Despite these irritants and flaws, I have been addicted since its release date. So for a game ridden with bugs and faults, it's pretty damn good. Looking forward to the upcoming DLC, and then number 4. It'll be a bloody long wait, I've been waiting for Inquisition for what seemed like forever.

 

Until then, there's The Witcher and Mass Effect to look forward to.

 

Off topic but too bad The Witcher 3 isn't until May

[Lord_Valandil]

Funny. Back when DAII was released, people were going "WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO TO SOMETHING ELSE. THE SAVE THE WORLD PLOT WAS FAMILIAR AND AWESOME".

 

Bioware does that this time around, and some of those same people end up going "GOD THIS IS SO BORING AND CLICHE. SAVE THE WORLD PLOTS ARE STUPID".

 

Can't win.

 

I have my issues thus far with how the story of DAI is being done (particularly how all the wars going on are shown poorly and how after Skyhold every main quest -- which are really great but would be great ways to end a climactic arc in the story -- are standalone.) but still....

 

That isn't to say there aren't legitimate grievances being said. I haven't finished the game (and thus I'm refraining from reading posts on here), but it's assured that there are those types of people out there, where nothing is ever good enough for them.

 

Dude, people complained about DA2 because it was a horrible game and the story was pretty subpar.

But I agree in the sense that you can't please everyone. There'll always be whiners.

[TheTrueObelus]

I enjoyed the story but didn't fall in love with it. I thought the strongest part was when you visited the ancient elven temple with the pool and the guardian elves. Not much else really grabbed my attention. Wouldn't go as far to call it boring though.

 

I'll admit the end boss battle was a bit of a let down.

[Maiafay]

No it didn't...its almost as bad as DAO and a step back from DA2.

Bioware leans too heavily on the "tell" part, especially its character stories in the older games.

Your opinion, which doesn't mean anything to me. As I said, apply for a job as a writer with Bioware. Complaining over what you can't change is a waste of time.

[TEWR]

Dude, people complained about DA2 because it was a horrible game and the story was pretty subpar.

But I agree in the sense that you can't please everyone. There'll always be whiners.

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I loathed how DAII handled its story which had great ideas yet shitty execution. There's very little I like about the game.

 

But people were, in fact, saying that they would've preferred a Save the World plot over something more.... focused on the sociopolitical elements of Dragon Age.