71 réponses à ce sujet

[th3warr1or]

If Vivienne was in Kirkwall telling the Arishok what to do, he wouldn't have ended up a stain on the Viscount's floor.

 

You're right. She would.

[Doominike]

Arrogant is just a side effect. She's a natural boss in every way and dominance in a relationship does not neccesarily extend to sexuality. Basically he's seen the alpha female in the group and acts accordingly. Say what you want of the inquisitor, but he/she isn't the alpha type who likes to boss people around.   

Yours maybe, my 1st one was, she's a mercenary veteran who's been in charge of a squad for decades, being in charge is a matter of fact and vivienne's bitchy posturing doesn't impress her

[Leto Shepard]

I'm going to agree with the majority and say its because she reminds him of the Tamassran. So it makes perfect sense that he would be subservient to her. 

 

Also I think it is a funny contrast to have the big bad ass Iron Bull so respectful and polite to someone so completely different than him. I don't think she is being mean to him, she objects to him calling her "Viv" and demands he address her more respectfully but I don't see why that is bad on her part, a Type A Red personality like she is would assert her dominance in the group after the Inquisitor.

 

She is quite nice to him throughout the rest of the game in a motherly (or patronizing; depends on how you look at it) kind of a way but again nothing she says to him I ever thought of as mean. She certainly doesn't talk to him like she does Sera who she clearly has nothing but contempt for but again thats perfectly understandable. 

 

So I don't get all the negative opinion directed at Vivienne; I think she is one of the coolest characters in the games. She reminds me of Morrigan. 

 

My favorite party to have is Iron Bull, Sera and Vivienne because I think they all complement one another well. Sera and Vivienne's bitching back and forth I find hysterical and Bull thrown in has a fun relationship with both of them. Not to mention he's the coolest fighter, Sera's the coolest rogue (though I love Cole as well...boy is crrreeeeeeppppyyyyy)

 

And Knight Enchanters are cool....for fun I went up against dragons later on in the game with just Vivienne and I and at high levels a Knight Enchanter can take anything down. 

 

[KaiserShep]

Vivienne's a nice hood ornament for the Inquisition's main hall, to schmooze with the masked menagerie that saunters through its doors.

[myahele]

The Qun is pretty rigid. As other's have said Vivi probably reminds Bull of the the female in his home and she does have the (magical) power to back up her claim:

 

[Sui Causa]

Probably because Vivienne clings desperately to relevance and the Iron Bull is willing to give her some of that power she desperately craves.

[CathyMe]

Because the writers needed to neuter every companion to make viv seem "relevant" or "smart"

[BloodKaiden]

The Vivienne hate makes me giggle.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Iron Bull is just pretending.

 

He is a Hissrad (Liar) in the Qun after all. Viv think she's so clever but, by playing the fool, Iron Bull is making her feel overconfident and then he'll chop off her head the moment she doesn't expect anything!

[Incantrix]

I don't think he tries to get her approval, per se. He's just super polite and she's horribly mean to him. He can get super defensive around her if she pushes him far enough.

 

For good reason...the man is a murderer.

 

Just sayin.

[dugite]

Bull says he gives people what they need. Kitchen maids need to be told their ****** are pretty, and I guess he thinks Viv needs to feel like she's in charge.

[VelvetV]

Iron Bull is a simple, uncouth and rowdy guy. And here he encounters someone "refined" who behaves like a queen wearing a crown and is super confident about it. The social gap is huge. Such an attitude in the face of a huge gap can be very confusing. Iron Bull who lacks socialization skills with such people gets lost. He tries to behave like himself around Vivienne, but she doesn't respond the way he's accustomed to, isn't intimidated by him, shows confidence. So he automatically assumes she is smarter, etc. And she really is. In conversations, forging profitable relationships, etc.

 

I don't know what Tamassran is, must've missed it, but I've seen similar dynamics between people in real life. A very good communicator and a reader of people + inhuman confidence and polish can impress most unlikely guys.

 

And I've known someone very similar to Vivienne, we were enemies. People got "charmed" by her, as if under Dire Charm spell, even if she was being snarky or haughty. It fits Vivienne's story that she has such a personality, noone would make it to her position and status without some special ability like that.

 

If Vivienne type woman was trying to order Iron Bull's people, that wouldn't end well for her. But there's a big gap between them not only socially, but in all other ways, so technically Vivienne can't be viewed as someone contesting Iron Bull's authority. Thus he has no reason to rile up and can get charmed without worries.

 

Wow did I actually write so seriously about relathionships of fictional characters? Happened only about Cole so far. I must really like Vivienne or Iron Bull, too 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Because the writers needed to neuter every companion to make viv seem "relevant" or "smart"

 

Or maybe her character just is naturally smart and relevant. Not like her detractors would give her due credit for it, anyway. 

[duckley]

Just one more reason that I never use Iron Bull or Vivienne for that matter...(shudder)

[ctd757]

He is scared of mages. But whenever I put them in the same party they never speak.

[TheDovah]

I feel that Iron Bull is not being submissive but keeping an eye on her as he or the Ben-Hassarth may feel that she is a potential threat and the best way to catch her off guard is to play the role of a submissive Bull. Or it's due to her being the combination of a Tamassarn, a Qunari dreadnought and a powerful mage that causes him to act submissive. He's used to fighting Tal-vashoth, Vints, Bandits and other threats that are not magical. Demons are something he is not used to and it is implied he is scared of them. Or he knows that any argument will result in him losing and decides to let her win.

[Seraphim24]

I was going to say, "because he's a switch?" but then everyone else had legit answers. :/

 

Dominants are "submissive" and vice versa, in practicality and reality.

 

As for IB and Vivienne I think Vivienne is more submissive in general which makes IB paradoxically submissive to Vivienne as recognition of her dominant position in the submissive hierarchy.

[leaguer of one]

He comes from a society we're women technically control everything.

[leaguer of one]

He is scared of mages. But whenever I put them in the same party they never speak.

He's not scared of Mages at all.

[leaguer of one]

You're right. She would.

In what way? For all crap Vive talks she can actually back it up.

[Qun00]

Blackwall is kind of the same way with her. He seems like he strives to get her approval in almost every conversation.

Really? He rather seemed to try and insult her at every turn, which I fully support.

Or maybe her character just is naturally smart and relevant. Not like her detractors would give her due credit for it, anyway.

I love the way Sky Watcher handles her.

After he was done explaining Avvar religion, Vivienne commented "Preposterous nonsense".

His response was " Preposterous is what you are wearing to a bog, Orlesian."

[KaiserShep]

Or maybe her character just is naturally smart and relevant. Not like her detractors would give her due credit for it, anyway. 

Relevance is a funny thing. I'm curious where she'd end up if the Inquisitor never recruits her, and frees the mages and makes Leliana Divine.  No doubt still schmoozing with the masked riffraff of the courts, but Fiona would likely be more influential in this scenario.