65 réponses à ce sujet

[New Kid]

I was hoping some of you lovely people could recommend a build for my double-dagger rogue?

I finished the game with an archer on hard and it was a cake-walk, but I'm having a tough time with daggers on Nightmare, and I'm tending to just let the inquisitor die and controlling Sera instead.

I'm a level 8 Dwarf, typically I use Cass, Sera and Viv. If anyone could recommend a build, specialization or a party build I would be grateful!

[sch1986]

Personally I would swap out Sera for Varric, or since you are already a rogue- sera for Dorian or Solas.

As far as build goes- I found it took me until about level 12 to start dealing DPS worthy of a DW rogue. There's a subterfuge (stealth tree?) talent (forget what it's called- icon looks like brass knuckles) that's 100% necessary with upgrade. Focus on crafting things that increase cunning so critical chance is high.

[sch1986]

Looked up the name of that talent- it's shadow strike. And knockout powder is Very helpful as well. I keep hearing the tempest specialization is the way to go once you get to skyhold- but I can't speak for it personally as I went assassin. Just don't pick artificer.

[Matth85]

DW rogue pre specialization. My recommendation:

 

At level 3(out of the tutorial) you got 4 points, or 5 as human. 2 of those are pre-assigned into Twin Fangs and Stealth. That's good!

- First 2 points: Flank Attack + upgrade. Left side of the DW tree.

- Next 3 points(Level 6, or 5 as human): Deathblow at the right side of the DW tree. 

- Next 2 points(Level 8, or 7 as human): Evade at the left side of the subterfuge(stealth) tree. 

* Terror Demons show up rapidly at level 8. Evade helps a ton with them!

- Next 2 points: (Level 10, or 9 as human): Upgrade Twin Fangs and Deathblow.

- Next 3 points(Level 13, or 12 as human): Looked like it hurt + Cheap Shot in the Sabotage/poison tree. 

- Choose your specialization! As DW I recommend either Tempest or Assassin. Get everything in either. 

* You can also get Poisoned weapon at one point, but I hear some rumors the 25% damage only works for auto attacks, and the poison itself isn't very good before late-game.

 

This gives you:

 

Twin fangs: Hits hard, hits often. Your go-to initiator. Use it out of stealth at a flank. Especially good if the target is frozen first.

Flank attack + upgrade: Your second stealth. Your re-position. Your comboer. Use it well!

Deathblow: Is any enemy under 50%? use it. It hits like a truck, and it hits twice. It also knocks down targets, which is amazing!

Stealth: It drops aggro. It lets you position yourself. It's your iconic move. Yey!

Evade: Lets you move around quicker from target to target. Avoid Terror Demons AoE, avoid spells. It's pure gold!

Passives: 50 stamina on kill(killing blow required. Bugged with Deathblow!), 10% crit on flank, 10 stamina on crit, Armor penetration on crit, 5% chance to avoid damage. 

 

Your playstyle consist of taking out priority targets. Archers > Mages > Warrior w/o shield > Warrior w shield > Maulers. 

Your job is to attack in bursts. You are not going to have a 100% uptime on the target -- you go in and out. 1 target at a time. 

You do not initiate. You send your tank in first, let him/her get the aggro. Then you pop up behind an archer an annihilate him. You do that for all archers/mages.

[Rynas]

Level 8 is tough for any class on Nightmare.  Shadow Strike is definitely not essential though...Twin Fangs hits harder and has half the cooldown, and costs less ability points, so it's better as an early ability.  If survivability is the problem, the easiest thing is probably upgraded Flank Attack and upgraded Stealth.  Hit stuff, restealth if it decides to attack you, repeat.  The only abilities you need for that are upgraded Flank Attack, upgraded Stealth, and upgraded Twin Fangs, so 6 points.  The rest can go towards improving survivability (Evade/Evasion, Knockout Powder) or damage (Sneak Attack, Ambush, Poison).  Then respec towards your "final" build when you choose a specialization.

 

A good mindset for Nightmare is to assume that you're going to die if anything hits you, so try playing like that for a while and see if it helps.  E.g., Cass needs Challenge and War Cry set to preferred, and attack only from behind (kill mages and archers first) and get out if it turns at you.

 

Make sure to go to Val Royeaux and get Tier 2 schematics as soon as you can afford them.  You can probably do it as early as level 5, and it's much better than the crappy drops you get from Hinterlands.

 

Eventually you should be able to take out mages and archers solo while the rest of the party focuses on the heavy mobs.

[Rynas]

DW rogue pre specialization. My recommendation:

 

At level 3(out of the tutorial) you got 4 points, or 5 as human. 2 of those are pre-assigned into Twin Fangs and Stealth. That's good!

- First 2 points: Flank Attack + upgrade. Left side of the DW tree.

- Next 3 points(Level 6, or 5 as human): Deathblow at the right side of the DW tree. 

- Next 2 points(Level 8, or 7 as human): Evade at the left side of the subterfuge(stealth) tree. 

* Terror Demons show up rapidly at level 8. Evade helps a ton with them!

- Next 2 points: (Level 10, or 9 as human): Upgrade Twin Fangs and Deathblow.

- Next 3 points(Level 13, or 12 as human): Looked like it hurt + Cheap Shot in the Sabotage/poison tree. 

- Choose your specialization! As DW I recommend either Tempest or Assassin. Get everything in either. 

* You can also get Poisoned weapon at one point, but I hear some rumors the 25% damage only works for auto attacks, and the poison itself isn't very good before late-game.

 

I agree with everything except Deathblow.  The bug makes it almost totally useless except on the very last mob of a fight.

[Matth85]

I find it to work like a charm. The knockdown takes out even maulers. It does ruin the whole "Kill target - stealth - repeat"-flow, but only by a little. 

Though what would you trade it for? Shadow Strike doesn't hit half the time, and the left side of the DW tree isn't much to speak off.

[Rynas]

I think what to "trade" it for depends on your specialization and final spec, but I was thinking in terms of low levels, skipping it lets you move toward other useful stuff one level earlier.  No question it hits like a truck, though.  I just really wish it worked as described.

[Matth85]

The main issue with it is 2 bugs:

1) It doesn't trigger the Stamina-on-kill passive,

2) At 100 stamina, the second strike steals 50 stamina from you.

 

However, I think it is still worth having even so. You trade twin fangs for deathblow at < 50%, and watch thing explode!

[Rynas]

Actually for the 2nd one, it seems it will always steal 50 stamina from you, leaving you with no stamina left (due to #1).  At least, that's how it typically works for me.  Which is bad.

 

One cool thing, though: When it decides whether or not to make the second attack, it seems to check the target's health AFTER the first hit is done.  So you can get the full effect even if the target is above 50%, as long as the first hit takes it below 50%.

[Matth85]

Indeed. Towards end-game I could go into stealth and right into Death blow. The first strike would chuck half the health of an archer, triggering the second strike. A few auto attacks later, and he's down. Now, if only I had stamina to re-stealth and do it again.. *cought* 

alas. It is what it is!

[lastpawn]

I'm a fan of sleep powder, but admittedly it's not necessary. I just like CC-ing stuff.

[Matth85]

A lot of the CC is redudant given the ease of the game. The only fight CC would be handy on, are fights that are immune to CC anyways. I wish they could give us 1 more difficulty to play with! Then CC would be quite a lot more important.

[HeroxMatt]

I agree with everything except Deathblow.  The bug makes it almost totally useless except on the very last mob of a fight.

 

 

The main issue with it is 2 bugs:

1) It doesn't trigger the Stamina-on-kill passive,

2) At 100 stamina, the second strike steals 50 stamina from you.

 

However, I think it is still worth having even so. You trade twin fangs for deathblow at < 50%, and watch thing explode!

 

What's the bug on Deathblow? I'm looking to compile a list of Rogue Skill-Related Bugs for the Advice thread.

[Matth85]

First off: it doesn't trigger the passive: Dance of Death. I.E. You don't get 50 stamina back on kill, if Deathblow is the killing blow (Which it is designed to be, given you remove its CD.)

 

Second off, the cost is 50 stamina, but the second strike also takes 50 stamina. In my test I had 100 stamina, and was left at 0 after a kill. That does not work well with the assassin-playstyle! However, with just 50 stamina I did get both strikes. This leads me to believe the second strike is suppose to be free, but it is bugged. Either that, or it is bugged when I get a second strike for only 50 stamina. I don't know.

 

The second one you can live with; the first one ruins the flow of "Sneak - Twin Fangs - Deathblow - restealth - repeat" assassination playstyle. As you end most combos with 0 stamina, forcing you to wait to stealth.

 

* On a positive note, Deathblow goes off CD on a kill before you get the upgrade. Which is a bug too. Though this one seemed weird, as it only happened one 1 of my rogues. Anybody care to test that? Just don't get the upgrade to deathblow and kill an enemy with it. It should not refresh the CD.

[MadDemiurg]

KE is not only defense. Fade shield serves as fuel for chaotic focus, clean burn synergizes extremely well with cheap nocd spirit blade to move your cooldowns, and KE + fire have a lot of cheap spells meaning better use of conductive current. Plus, both spirit blade and fade cloak are extremely cost efficient and deal solid consistent damage. KE is probably best suited for fire dps and 20k fire mines spammed through flashpoint are fun. Rift's barrage + cage + flashpoint + hidden blades mastercraft unlimited mana spam may beat it but it's still very strong and is much less gear dependent than many other builds (You still need a decent base damage staff though).

[Rynas]

Second off, the cost is 50 stamina, but the second strike also takes 50 stamina. In my test I had 100 stamina, and was left at 0 after a kill. That does not work well with the assassin-playstyle! However, with just 50 stamina I did get both strikes. This leads me to believe the second strike is suppose to be free, but it is bugged. Either that, or it is bugged when I get a second strike for only 50 stamina. I don't know.

 

Could be that, or it could be that the game only checks to see if you have sufficient stamina *before* you use the ability.  Anyway, your description exactly matches my experience, so it's good to get more confirmation of the bug.

[Corto81]

DD +  Subterfuge + Tempest.

 

Game IS a cakewalk on NM, btw, thing is, you have to control your character 100% of the time.

 

1 - Stealth

2 - Shadow Strike

3 - Knockout Powder

4 - Parry

5 - Flank Attack

6 - Deathblow

7 - Lightning Flask

8 - Thousand Cuts

 

Up-to-tier daggers are mandatory and the Hidden Blades proc is mandatory.

Guard-building thingy on your armor helps if you're too lazy to Parry everything.

 

Early game is a bit hard, mid-game gets easier (especially with you losing threat and the tank tanking up etc.).

Late game is actually, get this... EASY.

 

It actually requires very little tactics, you just go in, unleash, your CDs go down with upgrades Shadow Strike, get out or Parry, rinse-repeat.

 

The ONLY hard thing on NM is the awful tac cam and stupid AI, meaning babysitting your companions every second - and like I said, in a very impractical and basically useless tac-cam (especially in dungeons).

[New Kid]

Thanks for all the help guys, been having an easier time of it lately! Been using shadow strike rather than death blow, all this talk of glitches scares me haha. (Speaking of glitches, my character was so in awe of Hawke she appears to have changed voices!)

[Murloc Knight]

how about for runes and equps?

[Anelyn77]

Guard building is insane for a melee rogue because of the speed you attack (it adds guard per hit, you hit twice with most skills and autoattack fastest in the game), so you will always have full guard from opening move pretty much.

 

No matter how you spec at skyhold, there will be times when you will have big CD's like Stealth / Flasks etc on CD and get hit by a knockdown / burn / poison / chilled / frozen / asleep etc, having the guard on top of barrier will make your life and/or mistakes in combat more manageable than without.

 

Keep in mind that you will play as melee from start to finish, and it's a long way until you will have the gear and talent points to be nigh unkillable. Guard > a bit more damage IMHO.

[zeypher]

k opions on poisoned weapons for dual dagger rogues? so far it seems underwhelming. Does it become better if i get infected wounds? 

[Rynas]

Thanks for all the help guys, been having an easier time of it lately! Been using shadow strike rather than death blow, all this talk of glitches scares me haha. (Speaking of glitches, my character was so in awe of Hawke she appears to have changed voices!)

 

Make sure you scream "SHOOORYUKEN!!" whenever you use Shadow Strike, it's mandatory.

 

k opions on poisoned weapons for dual dagger rogues? so far it seems underwhelming. Does it become better if i get infected wounds? 

 

PW is kind of crap except on bosses who live long enough for it to run its full duration.  Especially dragons, who knock down and move out of melee range a lot.  The upgraded damage bonus is awesome for burst but doesn't stay up the majority of the fight.  I suppose there are some playstyles that could make good use of it, but personally I don't have space for it on my bar.  You could always spec into it for boss fights, then spec out of it again for general questing.

[zeypher]

does the poison weapons upgrade even affect skills. So far what i can see it only works on auto attacks and that too only on enemies who can be poisoned.

[Blackstork]

PW does good damge increase, i made comparison.

Its actually bringing you more dps than another damage skill which is not used 50% of time its off CD because of stamina, because, well, things do not die that often , and party members do deathblows too. Again, its useful for Tempest , who can keep it easily 100% time on. It's also good for assasin, since you want better damage for your Mark. Also its DOT damage is big one, assumed you can hit enemies with slashing daggers, or with well lined SS.

 

And i think Shadow Strike is good stuff. It is easy stunlock, and its prequisites open you Mercy Killing, which is necessary thing if you either play solo with bees on nightmare or playing combos. The main reason to use SS is to decrease CD, better to be spammed under Flask of Fire, and snuncloking pesky teleporting mages or despair demons, or wraiths. It's especially useful for Tempest who does not have "Stealth on kill" thingy, and Artie's "-cd on ally crit".

During one, chained Flask of Fire i manage to get out like 5-6 times. This means i get 5-6 X 4 sec = 20-24 sec decrease on CDs. This means i can go stealth again right away, use knock powder for new combo, reuse soon frost or lightning flask. 

 

Also SS hits multiple enemies if they stand on one line.

 

 SS have great synergy with Tempest, covering some gaps with certain abiltiies of Assasin and Artificer.