59 réponses à ce sujet

[Exalted_One]

Anyone know why they took it out? We got Reavers and they are like the warrior version of a blood mage damn shame we can't use it.  I allways played the blood mage in the other games and it makes me a sad panda that my inq wont be able to use this fine school of magic at all. 

[JaegerBane]

Anyone know why they took it out? We got Reavers and they are like the warrior version of a blood mage damn shame we can't use it.  I allways played the blood mage in the other games and it makes me a sad panda that my inq wont be able to use this fine school of magic at all.

I suspect that, given one is trying to win hearts and minds with the Inquisition being matched up against the chantry, using blood magic would have been stretching plausibility too far. You get enough grief just being a Necromancer and that's a respected profession in parts of the game world. Your last two games had you cast as free agents who weren't trying to win a global popularity contest.

In terms of gameplay, I suspect the new healing system and the way barrier works would be a bit of an obstacle for blood magic.

[Matth85]

I think they took it out since it doesn't really fit the "theme" of this game. Blood magic was the center of DA:2. 

And also because they will sell it via a DLC in a month. Just wait, I am calling it now!

[M Hedonist]

Choosing your class is actually big deal in this game, there's a quest for it and people react to your choice. It's not like with the first two games where you could just secretly be a Blood Mage.

[Paric]

Unfortunatly blood magic wud be streching it to far as some people have already stated, since your specialization is publicly known and NPCs(companions mostly)recognise comment on it. Afterall you are a leader of a big organization etc so it wud be hard to make bloodmagic properly(and thats not even counting problem with gameplay introduction due to healing changes), also while i always played bloodmage before and loved it lorewise the specialization was rly portraied weak ingame(and i am not talking about chantry propaganda etc.. since lorewise its known Ancient elf magic as well as Tevinter magisters both used/use some forms of blood magic for 100s or even 1000 years without causing the world to fall appart), but in reality its rly impossibile to do it justice gameplay wise without making it trully op

I do however hope that in DLCs we get it back in at least some form, mybe as some ancient elven scholl of magic that partialy utilizes blood magic elements(wud also make sence story wise since the endgame is leading to conclusion we will get to know more of ancient elven stuff in DLCs/expansions)

[Xhaiden]

Wielding Blood Magic in the middle of something called "The Inquisition"? 

 

Cassandra would staple your genitals to the throne and Josephine would routinely insist you rise to greet foreign dignitaries. 

[Raxxman]

Bloodmagic is kinda the cause of all the problems in DA:I.

I could see people not really walming to the inquisator using it.

[MikeFL25]

Yeah, I'm glad that blood magic is not a playable spec in this game.  It kinda made sense in DA:O, as there is a precedent for Wardens using blood magic.  Its not advised, certainly not the best option, but Warden mages don't answer to the Circle or the Chantry, so its kinda a begrudging "hall-pass".  

 

In DA2, I didn't like that it was included.  The whole point of the story was how blood mages drove the Templars to extreme measures, Templar brutality increased leading to more blood magic, red lyrium got involved and it all went to ******.  It only really makes sense if you are playing as a a**hole Hawke who actively fueled the conflict.  It wouldn't make sense in Inquisition.  Regardless of how you play your Inquisitor, the Inquisition has holy roots.  It was formed from high ranking Chantry members and a Templar Knight-Captain.  No way would you as the Inquisitor have the loyalty or support from the populace, let alone your advisors/troops, if you spewed blood magic everywhere.  

 

I honestly hope it does not return as a playable spec in future games because it goes against the lore.  Blood magic is powerful and can (most of the time does) overwhelm the mage and allows them to be possessed or worse.  Being the player character obviously this wont happen so its kinda lore-breaking as its all power no consequences.  Unless the player character is going to be another Warden or some kind of apostate, it wouldn't make sense.

[jonmoore86]

I always kinda thought that if they did include blood magic again, there should be a major hit to willpower and mental resistance on choosing it. As in, +10 spell power, -20 mental resistance.

[Paric]

Meh i kinda dissagree i wud say the dangers of blood magic are vastly overexagurated by propaganda, as it is already well established in lore its common/while hidden practice in Tevinter and they dont have any more possesion problems than anyone alse(simply if all the Chantry stuff about it wud be true Tevinter wud have never existed as a nation for 10 years, jet it has endured for over 1000 years without destroying itself), also its been told that ancient elves used it as welll without any problems(again we are talking about a vast magicly advenced empire that was around for a very long time, which again didnt have any real problems because of it), even Morigan says for example she knows a lot of old magic chantry wud consider bloodmagic and shes doing just fine etc...

I do however agree that it wud be hard to do justice to bloodmagic from gameplay point of view because it wud have to be to strong to be consitent with its lore, especialy on the battlefield when theres always enough enemies around whose blood can be used to fuel you..Than again its been said that DAI was the last game focusing on south Thaedas and next games will be happening north so if we by any chance get to play in Tevinter it wud be silly if blood magic isnt avilable as spec there.

[JaegerBane]

It's fair to say that the Chantry has exaggerated Blood Magic in the past - mainly because the Chantry has very few people who actually understand magic in general, so it's used as a generic scapegoat for any kind of magic-related crime... And some unrelated crimes.

On the other hand, there is a legitimate argument that Blood Magic has a corruptive influence - the events in DA2 are good examples of this - and it does nonetheless originate from demons, so while the Chantry may get it wrong it doesn't mean they're wrong to fear it.

On the gameplay front - I do think it has a place but depends on the player character being either a grey warden or someone with a similar mandate. The Inquisitor maybe in a position of power, but to a certain extent, they're running a rival organisation to the Templars and are competing for their supporters.

[herkles]

I do not want blood magic in Inquistion. It doesn't fit the story IMO. That said if we are going to Tevinter in da4, then it is very likely that we will have blood magic as per World of Thedas:

 

 

 

Not up for debate, however, is the practice of blood magic. Using pain or death to cast or strengthen spells is forbidden throughout Thedas.

 

The ancient Tevinter magisters were the first to experiment with blood magic. They saw it as a means to achieve greater power in all schools. Over time, they discovered spells that could only be worked by spilling blood. Rituals involving violence became a significant part of the Old God worship, and blood mages rose to incredible heights of power and influence.

 

Blood magic allows feats otherwise thought impossible. Although lyrium will allow a mage to send his conscious mind into the fade, blood would allow him to find the sleeping minds of others, view their dreams, and even influence or dominate their thoughts," famed First Enchanter Josephus once wrote. "just as treacherous, blood magic allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into our world."

 

Josephus wrote that it was once common practice for tevinter magisters to keep a number of slaves on hand, to use their blood to strengthen spells. A rare tevinter maleficar may still use slaves for this purpose.

 

With the rise of the Chant of Light and subsequent decline of Old God worship, the use of blood magic was all but stamped out across thedas. Chantry faithful believe those who practice blood magic are criminals, as common wisdom holds there is no way to use blood magic with good intentions. The say all blood mages who use their own blood will eventually find themselves tempted by the additional power to be gained from spiling the blood of others.

 

While blood magic is discouraged even in the pro-mage Imperium, it is still widely, if quietly, practiced there. Since most of the heroes of Tevinter folklore used or benefited from blood magic, the practice does not carry as much stigma with most Tevinters. However since Andraste specifically spoke against blood magic, it has been removed from public ceremonies and is not formally taught in the imperial circles

 

In the Imperium, the traditions of blood magic are now passed down quietly from master to apprentice and parent to child. To this day, even the most devout mage in the Imperial Chantry knows at least a little blood magic.

 

Also here is an in-character letter from a magister in the blood magic.

 

 

Let me correct you, apprentince. While it is true that blood magic is woven through the history of Tevinter, there are good reasons, quite aside from the Chantrys sermons, that such arts are now frowned upon. Consider the ancient magisters who once attempted to map the Fade itself. A worthy goal, perhaps, but a costly one. When their spells exhausted their lyrium supply, the magisters spilled the blood of countless slaves. To what end? the shifting nature of the fade made the effort futile, and so much death left the magisters open to possession by demons. Wasteful!

 

Some still idolize Tirena of the Rock, who used blood magic against the Qunari during the Steel Age. They say she cut her flesh on the Shore of Marnas Pell as the dreadnought sailed in, turned her spells against their crews, and boiled the very blood in their veins. A terrifying display, to be sure, but against Qunari? It only made them more determined when they besiged the ports of Carastes.

 

And what of Magister Calanthus, that fool who believed he could make himself the "Ascended Man" with blood magic? Thirthy-three slaves died in that rite, and calantus became an abomination so horrfic that his apprenctinces tore out of their eyes at the sight of him.

 

You quote the example of the lovers Crescens and Seraphinian. Yes, Seraphinian offered his own blood to cure Crescens of her wasting disease, and Crescens lived a long life. But if the noblest use of blood magic still calls for the death of a good man, is that not enough to reconsider?

 

-Letter from Magister Aesthia to her apprentice, 7:71 Storm

[Magma_Axis]

Well, if the next game set in Tevinter and you play as a mage, Blood magic will make a return. Based on Dorian explanation, almost all of Tevinter powerful magister practiced Blood magic (behind closed door though). Dont know how they will justify public use

[JaegerBane]

Well, if the next game set in Tevinter and you play as a mage, Blood magic will make a return. Based on Dorian explanation, almost all of Tevinter powerful magister practiced Blood magic (behind closed door though). Dont know how they will justify public use

Indeed, all tevinter mages use it to tread water in the current situation. This is a toxic atmosphere and it's not surprising Tevinter itself has declined as a result.

Think about it... If Blood Magic was genuinely capable of sustainable use then surely Tevinter would be experiencing a golden age, as they're the only power that practices it on a large scale.

[Cmpunker13]

I think it doesn't have nothing to do with being an inquisitor... in DA2 you can be a blood mage in a city where the templars are unforgiving (and you can even side with them).

 

The real problem is in the game mechanics, imo: no sustained skills and no healing cut the legs to a blood mage spec.

[Tookah45]

no healing 

And here we have the real reason. They removed healing from the game, without which a BM spec would immediately fall over dead. Blood Mage has no place in the "new and improved" combat system.

[Nightdragon8]

And here we have the real reason. They removed healing from the game, without which a BM spec would immediately fall over dead. Blood Mage has no place in the "new and improved" combat system.

not really improved... i love the fact that, mages can heal people outside of combat, I suspect the only reason you don't put healing in the game, is the multi player, I mean, silly games of smite has proved that a team full of healers is hard to kill. if not imposable so I mean, Mutiplayer matchs would go on forever, and sadly todays game players don't have enough attention span to play a drawn out game.

[Todd23]

They took blood magic out because they hated how little effect it had on the game, despite it being the most notable characteristic a person is able to have in this world. In da2 it literally has no effect. They felt it just being your specialization wasn't enough weight to making your mage in to a blood mage.

[Matth85]

They took blood magic out because they hated how little effect it had on the game, despite it being the most notable characteristic a person is able to have in this world. In da2 it literally has no effect. They felt it just being your specialization wasn't enough weight to making your mage in to a blood mage.

Wouldn't that be fixed by, you know, changing it?

I can think of about 20 different things one could add to make your character feel like a blood mage. Especially considering we are locked into one specialization, so we can change core mechanics via it as well.

 

- Mana is removed, spell take health.

- Healing spell, such as Devour

- Life leeching spells

- Can kill your party to deal damage

- Can excecute low health enemies to deal damage to other enemies

- Can Mind control an enemy

- Party members leaves.

- Party members hates you.

- etc

 

It would be incredible easy to make a really different playstyle via it. Have it change the playstyle completely. Give you strong spells at the cost of your, or your teams, or any poor enemy, health. Boil the blood of your enemies from within via a channel spell, but lose health as you do it. Control an enemy, making him your party member until your blood source is gone. 

 

One could go on and on. It simply requires them to change from "Specialization is the frosting of the cake! Your build pre-specialization is what defines you!" to "**** it all. Once you go blood mage, everything changes and you will either regret doing it, or you will love it."

[Arkahd]

Wouldn't that be fixed by, you know, changing it?

I can think of about 20 different things one could add to make your character feel like a blood mage. Especially considering we are locked into one specialization, so we can change core mechanics via it as well.

 

I'm pretty sure Todd23 is referring to the impact it had on story in previous games, not the combat mechanics. Which other people have talked about. In DA1 and 2, people completely ignored the fact that you were a blood mage. Which should actually completely change how most people react to you.

 

With the fact that in Inquisition, they've tried to make it so your specialization actually has some effect on the story. They couldn't include blood mage without basically having an entirely seperate plot for if you did go blood mage. 

[Matth85]

They couldn't include blood mage without basically having an entirely seperate plot for if you did go blood mage

 

Not really. It would take some work, but you wouldn't need to make a seperate plot for you. Why would you being a blood mage have any impact on the storyline as is? Other than some pissed of party members.

 

Also, plot-questions got their own forum, not Classes and Builds, which are gameplay related. Which is why I assumed, and still assume, that.

[Arkahd]

Not really. It would take some work, but you wouldn't need to make a seperate plot for you. Why would you being a blood mage have any impact on the storyline as is? Other than some pissed of party members.

 

Also, plot-questions got their own forum, not Classes and Builds, which are gameplay related. Which is why I assumed, and still assume, that.

 

Umm, yes it definitely would. Beyond pissed off party members. Being a maleficar is a huge deal in the Dragon Age world, outside of Tevinter. Being a maleficar who is leading an Andrastian based military organization would completely change how every organization reacted to you. And how almost everyone in the Inquisition proper reacted to you.

 

And plot is the reason blood magic was removed, which is why people responded to the OP about plot. Bioware didn't leave out blood magic because of combat mechanics, they left it out because of story mechanics.

 

Beyond that, a forum about classes doesn't necessarily only mean combat. It can also discuss how those classes fit into the world lore-wise.

[Matth85]

Umm, yes it definitely would. Beyond pissed off party members. Being a maleficar is huge deal in the Dragon Age world, outside of Tevinter. Being a maleficar who is leading an Andrastian based military organization would completely change how every organization reacted to you, considerably. And how almost everyone in the Inquisition proper reacted to you.

 

"You are the only one who can save us and the world from being destroyed!"

"But if you dare taking a risky 'necessary' evil, we will not support you or your cause. We will also tell everybody and make you a tranquil. **** you and **** the world!"

 

No. First of: Only the inner part of the inquisition would know. It would 'cause some problems, which would mean a little tweaks must be added. Otherwise it would be accepted since you are the only person who can save the world.

 

Bioware didn't leave out blood magic because of combat mechanics, they left it out because of story mechanics.

 

They left it out because of no reliable healing mechanics. In DA:2 the game built around Blood Mages. You becoming one, and siding with the templars, makes no sense at all in any context. yet... yet it happens.

The only game Blood Magic fits the plot, is DA:O. Where you are relatively unknown, and you are grasping straws to win a losing battle (like DA:I, minus the fact you are overly known).

 

How many people looks at the inquisitor and go "Bloody hell. Look at that Reaver/Assassin!". Nobody knows. Nobody cares. The ones who care, holds their emotions in check, due to the neccessity of you.

 

I mean, why does every single choice base on me being the "good and innocent guy"? Why must every choice I do be the best for me and everybody? We are at the brink of losing the world. At this point I'd go to blood magic in a second. I'd murder half of Ferelden if I had to, to get the blood required to blast corypheus to kingdom come. Right and wrong is irrelevant when everybody is dead in a year. Survival is what matters. Blood magic is stronger than normal magic. Hence everybody, regardless of their feelings, would still support the inquisitor.

[Arkahd]

Bioware devs specifically stated they left Blood Magic out of Inquisition for story reasons. For the massive amount of time and effort it would take to implement realistically into the plot. So your entire reply is irrelevant.

 

Blood Magic as specializations in Origins and 2, as I said, were almost completely ignored story-wise. And Bioware was aware of that, and they didn't want to take the easy way out in future dragon age games. They specifically said we won't see it again until they can pull it off really well within the story.

[JaegerBane]

Not really. It would take some work, but you wouldn't need to make a seperate plot for you. Why would you being a blood mage have any impact on the storyline as is? Other than some pissed of party members.

It's a little more than just angry party members. The Inquisitor openly practicing blood magic would basically undermine the inquisition. Think about it - no realistic chantry sympathiser support. No moderate Templar recruits. No support from refugees, no financial donors.