154 réponses à ce sujet

[Majestic Jazz]

Okay, how do I say this. I have put 52 hours into the game thus far, and I have not started the main quest that is triggered by talking to a Champion, telling you to goto Crestwood. 52 hours in and I still have a disconnect with my character and I feel as if I only spent like 6 hours experiencing main story content and the other 46 hours doing side quest or "fetch" quest. Then I asked myself, is this so different from past Bioware games? Yes and No.

 

See the thing is, I believe the main cause of all this is the fact that Bioware choose to not have every conversation have its own cinematic sequence like previous DA games and the entire Mass Effect trilogy. In all these games listed below, EVERY conversation whether it be related to the main story, character story, or side quest, ALL received some sort of cinematic/close up camera angle.

 

KOTOR

Jade Empire

Mass Effect

Mass Effect 2

Mass Effect 3

Dragon Age: Origins

Dragon Age 2

 

All of them! Yes, the main story cutscenes would have the better treatment and details, but at least EVERY conversation was a cutscene. Lets take Mass Effect as an example. Look at this video below. Basically it is a string of sidequest/conversations regarding a character named Conrad Verner. He is TOTALLY irrelevant to the main story in the trilogy, he is there to basically show the importance of Commander Shepard and how people look up to him/her. However, even in such irrelevent conversations, you still establish a connection with Mr. Verner because of the fact that they take place in cinematic scenes rather than the dull 3rd Person zoomed out camera angle of DAI. Here is the video showing every conversation with Conrad Verner in the entire Mass Effect trilogy:

 

 

Now imagine if those conversations used the same dull camera angle as DAI, I bet the connection between Shepard and Conrad Verner would not truly be the same. Instead of Conrad just being some random dude who talks to you, he becomes someone that you as the player recognize and connect with. Whether you think he is funny, annoying, or sad, you develope that connection and feeling because the camera work allows you to immerse yourself into the conversations with him and explore his character.

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Now going back to DAI and the fact that people feel as if the main story is too short and everything else makes them feel disconnected from the game, well, I contribute that to the lousy camera work. 52 hours into the game and when I do get the RARE cinematic cutscenes that shows my character's face, I feel as if I quite really do not know that person, as if I am still trying to get to know them. If I was 52 hours into the Mass Effect trilogy, I would be halfway through Mass Effect 2 and at this point, I would totally have a emotional connection to my character. I would feel for him/her, I would have strong attachments to my party members and so on. 52 hours into DAI, I feel like I barely know Solas and he is my romance! Why? Because I probably only had like 4 cinematic conversations with him whereas the other 10-12 conversations were all in the dull camera angle. Compare this to the Mass Effect romances where every scene is cinematic, showing close up on your face as well as your romance's face, which allows you to better observe the facial expressions and the emotions they convey for one another. You sort of feel soft inside as you see two people developing a strong bond for one another.

 

So as for the fetch quest, I believe that these quest would be less of a problem if the quest conversations were all done in cinematics. Yeah, the quest may still be fetching stuff which has nothing to do with the main story, but at least it allows you to better observe your character and observe those of the people in Thedas as they express their grief, concern, and fear when they give you these quest, such as the lady who wants to find her husband's ring in the Hinterlands. This could have been a quest in which we as the player felt strong sorrow for this lady because of what happened to her husband. It would allow for us as the player to understand just how important the Inquisition is or how important it can be because people's lives are being destroyed by this war. INSTEAD, we feel NOTHING and this women is just another random NPC walking around waiting for you to recieve their fetch quest so that you can get your little power/influence upgrade. Because of this, these quest feel tedious and totally disconnected emotionally.

 

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SWTOR has a TON of these fetch quest, but at least the quest givers have cinematic conversations and the elements of the quest also has cinematics. So it is more than just some person sitting on the side of the trail waiting for you to approach them.

 

Yeah, I know this was a long read, but basically I want to get a consensus from you guys. Do you feel as if these fetch quest would have been less boresome/tedious if they had cinematic conversations which allows you the player to be emotionally drawn into the world? I hope going forward with DAI story DLC, Bioware has all conversations in cutscenes like normal.

[Shechinah]

Since the decrease in cinematics is why we are allowed more dialogue overall, I don't mind the switch and find the way it's done to be a very bearable compromise especially as the cutscenes are still there for the very needed scenes. I didn't feel a disconnect from my character or others because I still got enough talk with them to learn about them that way and my character at the same time. That and I use voices as an indicator more than I do faces.

 

My only problem were the times when I accidentally exited a conversation with an NPC because I accidentally triggered an auto-attack.

[Ieldra]

I don't think the total amount of cinematics has decreased. It may even have increased. It's just spread over more content. It's regretabble that minor characters don't get them as a rule, but since the likely alternative would be to get much less dialogue overall, I'll accept it.

[Majestic Jazz]

I don't think the total amount of cinematics has decreased. It may even have increased. It's just spread over more content. It's regretabble that minor characters don't get them as a rule, but since the likely alternative would be to get much less dialogue overall, I'll accept it.

 

I seriously doubt that DAI has more cinematic content than a game like say....Mass Effect 3 which was FAR more linear than DAI, but yet was still a strong and solid 35-50 hour game.

[Spankatola]

I don't think the total amount of cinematics has decreased. It may even have increased. It's just spread over more content. It's regretabble that minor characters don't get them as a rule, but since the likely alternative would be to get much less dialogue overall, I'll accept it.

 

I agree. There's a ton of cinematic dialog here. But there's also a bunch of chats the PC engages in that are just your basic camera zoom. It's almost as if people are complaining about too much conversation, which...yeah.

[Maverick827]

I don't think the total amount of cinematics has decreased. It may even have increased. It's just spread over more content. It's regretabble that minor characters don't get them as a rule, but since the likely alternative would be to get much less dialogue overall, I'll accept it.

 

"Spread out over more content" sounds like a very PR-friendly way of saying "padded."

[Majestic Jazz]

I agree. There's a ton of cinematic dialog here. But there's also a bunch of chats the PC engages in that are just your basic camera zoom. It's almost as if people are complaining about too much conversation, which...yeah.

 

I am not complaining about more dialog as more dialog is fine. But is that dialog actually engaging in the same was as the Conrad Verner example given above? Or is this extra dialog not as immersive and just a step above text dialog?

 

Remember the idea is quality, not quanity. I would rather have less of something but this something be TRUELY amazing and immersive rather than more of something but is actually less amazing and immersive.

 

I think that is the two sides. Some people rather have quality while others are just fine with quantity. 

[_Aine_]

I have no way to quantify the actual amount of cinematics in terms of comparison to previous games, but I will say this:  This game FEELS like all the conversations happen only because your character bothered to make it a point to seek out a person and click on their head.  It was nice before to sometimes pass someone, or go back to camp to have a scene play out without your direct input.  It made it feel *more* like the companions cared enough to approach you also (even if that strictly wasn't occurring.)  Just like while out and about you could sometimes click on a companion and get a comment or two, sometimes a small dialogue opportunity.  I miss seeing those as often/ at all.  

 

This *does* create a bit of an emotional disconnect from my point of view.  It is minor, but it does impact the sense of mutual-care between people.  Like for Makers sake cullen, why do I constantly have to come to your work place and click on you to start a conversation, when most of the time you reply with a curt response?  Why can't there be *some* mechanism to let people know when they are ready to talk? lol  Cassandra was easier, always by her dummies.  The tower folk... 

[Laterali]

I was severely missing the cinematic scenes when talking to my companions, mostly because the characters are so well made, I thought it was a shame we weren't able to get in close to the faces when they talked. 

 

I also kind of felt a disconnect from the dialogue because of the camera. I didn't feel I was a part of the conversation like in previous games, more observing it.

[Shechinah]

I felt it managed to stay in quality while being of measurable quantity. It is a step far above quest texts for me because I can hear a person's voice and the tone and how of how they deliver their dialogue which helps my immersion very much. Through a person's voice, you can hear how they are and feel without needing the description of their face to have it come across; a woman has lost her husband and grieves for her loss but speaks bitterly as well because of how she lost him and why. A text can describe it but what really brings me into the situation and connects me to that character's plight is hearing it voiced.  In some cases, a voice can describe a person's state more than facial expressions could. A voice can better depict the nuances of a person's moods, the subtle tells than facial expressions can in a game.

[Spankatola]

I am not complaining about more dialog as more dialog is fine. But is that dialog actually engaging in the same was as the Conrad Verner example given above? Or is this extra dialog not as immersive and just a step above text dialog?

 

Remember the idea is quality, not quanity. I would rather have less of something but this something be TRUELY amazing and immersive rather than more of something but is actually less amazing and immersive.

 

I think that is the two sides. Some people rather have quality while others are just fine with quantity. 

 

I'll clarify that what you're complaining about is a result of there being more dialog overall (I think). Which is the same thing, one step removed.

 

But anyway, I obviously can't disagree with your opinion. Personally, I don't find the zoomed-in dialog any less immersive than a cinematic cutscene, as each contributes to the overall experience without breaking immersion. And I also think you're being a bit unfair by referring to the non-cinematic dialog as inferior quality. It's not cinematic, that's it. Unless you literally equate quality with things being animated and camera angles jumping, we can't agree at all. They put just as much effort into writing, editing, and integrating the non-cinematic dialog into the overall story. It's not a throwaway experience.

[Lebanese Dude]

Why are so many people considering companions not part of the main story? =/

[Icinix]

I think it has to do more with camera work and ability to choose race. After DA2 one of the comments from devs was how a set human character let them know where the head would be at all times so the camera wouldn't get behind things or show the wrong thing.
Since much dialogue occurs with NPCs that move around and you can choose race, they possibly opted to drop the cinematic take because it could have potentially ruined much of dialogue experience.
if that is the case, fair trade off.

[MPSai]

I've wondered if the engine change isn't the culprit in this. Say what you will about Dragon Age 2, but I always thought the dialog scene direction was fantastic. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Main story feels short because it is genuinely short in comparison to the side quests....

[Draining Dragon]

I definitely agree. Especially since most of the "more dialogue" is for boring and pointless fetch quests that shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

[Lebanese Dude]

I think it has to do more with camera work and ability to choose race. After DA2 one of the comments from devs was how a set human character let them know where the head would be at all times so the camera wouldn't get behind things or show the wrong thing.
Since much dialogue occurs with NPCs that move around and you can choose race, they possibly opted to drop the cinematic take because it could have potentially ruined much of dialogue experience.
if that is the case, fair trade off.

 

That makes sense but it probably wasn't only due to that.

They may have worked on the main/companion/zone quests first and then just sprinkled random quests to drive exploration. 

The world is huge, so there's a lot of those low-cost quests around. No big deal. If you dislike exploration then you can just ignore them for the most part. Some claim to have finished the game with an excess of 300 power WITHOUT finishing all the side quests.

[Lebanese Dude]

Main story feels short because it is genuinely short in comparison to the side quests....

 

Conversely, there's way more exploration in the game.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I haven't played the game, but there were hardly any cinematics to Baldur's Gate, and I didn't think that limited the game in any way.

 

All things being equal, I'd rather they add less resource-intensive content like cinematics, and more scenes just using the in-game engine. In some ways, I find the sudden change in resolution/animation a bit jarring. And, as pretty and dramatic as they can be, they can also interfere with immersion.

 

Obviously, I'll reserve judgment in the case of DA:I until I actually decide whether to get and play it.

[Maverick827]

I absolutely hate the "casual dialog" camera view in this game for anything other than merchants.

 

It's almost like the camera itself is as disinterested in these "scenes" as I am and is just phoning it in.

[Majestic Jazz]

I absolutely hate the "casual dialog" camera view in this game for anything other than merchants.

 

It's almost like the camera itself is as disinterested in these "scenes" as I am and is just phoning it in.

 

My point exactly, and because of this, we are not as emotionally engaged in these conversations which sort of goes against what Bioware has been trying to build since KOTOR, emotionally driven conversations/dialog. 

[samuelkaine]

I definitely agree. Especially since most of the "more dialogue" is for boring and pointless fetch quests that shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

Yeah, I hated those chantry boards, Blackstone irregulars, getting elfroot for the refugees...

 

..that's what you meant right?

[Majestic Jazz]

Yeah, I hated those chantry boards, Blackstone irregulars, getting elfroot for the refugees...

 

..that's what you meant right?

 

The sheer number of those quest does not compare to the number of similar quest in DAI. Nice try though. 

[Fantazm1978]

"So can we all agree........."

 

That'll be a no then.