154 réponses à ce sujet

[Spooky81]

But barely any story content to lots of exploration is exactly what BG1 did. That's as spiritual successor as you can get.

 

That's oversimplifying it.  Original BG was stepping stone to SoA, which set a certain legacy and unique appeal to all BioWare RPGs.  Wasn't lost to them in the following years, even when they started creating console-port RPGs such as KOTOR and Mass Effect, which I enjoyed.

 

While I wasn't expecting DAI to be a clone replica jump to the past, my original point being in agreement with the OPs arguments that DAI's approach to story and quest presentation just doesn't feel like BioWare at all.

[Jaderail]

I definitely do miss the close-up back and forth camera, there's not enough of it in DA:I, I wouldn't have even minded if they took it easy on the animations, I mean - the animations are already happening, it seems it's just lacking the close-up camera angle. I dunno how exactly it works, maybe it's more intensive than I think?

[Lebanese Dude]

But well, that's just MY opinion.

 

Opinions are cute but that's all they are. Opinions can also be ill-formed, typically when they are formed from misconceptions, exaggeration, and nostalgic bias. Nor are they sacrosanct; an infallible entity that cannot be criticized. Those are facts, which you have only used sparingly and choose to ignore even when presented. 

 

I don't even care what you think about the content, but rather I was trying to give you some insight on the whole development process as you are conflating the exploration design with the writing (and continue to do so).

 

But seeing as your first reaction to a criticism was to go on the defensive, it seems you aren't interested in talking. 

Nor am I interested in conversing with a brick wall. Have a nice day.

 

[Zundar]

So you want quantity over quality?

Why can't we have both?

[In Exile]

That's oversimplifying it.  Original BG was stepping stone to SoA, which set a certain legacy and unique appeal to all BioWare RPGs.  Wasn't lost to them in the following years, even when they started creating console-port RPGs such as KOTOR and Mass Effect, which I enjoyed.

 

While I wasn't expecting DAI to be a clone replica jump to the past, my original point being in agreement with the OPs arguments that DAI's approach to story and quest presentation just doesn't feel like BioWare at all.

 

While I do acknowledge the difference between vanilla BG and SoA, I don't think it's as pronounced as your post suggests and, in any event, I don't think there's any marked difference between DA:I and SoA in terms of the relatively emphasis on story vs. exploration/combat, etc. And that puts aside the general evolution in companion-specific content that has been a part of Bioware games since BG2 (companions were barely evolved in BG1). 

 

My only point was that, when we look at the evolution of Bioware games, DA:I is the closest to BG1 since, well, BG1. Even BG2 was a radical departure from what Bioware had designed originally. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's oversimplifying it.  Original BG was stepping stone to SoA, which set a certain legacy and unique appeal to all BioWare RPGs.

BG2 was a pale imitation of BG.  BG is by far the superior game, in my opinion.

 

Inquisition is similarly superior.

[Dansrage]

How on Earth can you say the main story feels short!?

I've been playing for 90 hours and I'm not done yet! 

[whiteravenxi]

After Haven, the gameplay comes to a point where you don't feel like exploring all the available areas. Because nothing interesting will happen after you complete all those mini quests. Only if you go on with the plot-related ones. Then you MIGHT get a cutscene if someone's approval went up -for whatever reason- or a line of dialog. And that's it.
So exploring the Emerald Greaves, the Exalted Plains, the Storm Coast, the Fallow Mire, parts of Emprise du Lion and of the Western Approach just feel like a huge waste of time.

Really? A waste of time? Is exploring not fun? Do you only play these types of games for art directed cut scenes? Is it not fun to simply discover something in a vast zone? To uncover a dungeon you know nothing about only to dive in and unravel it?

Just cutscenes then? No excitement about building a bridge in Empress so you can explore a new area of the map?

What about wandering around only to hear your companions discuss something among themselves? Or to have your romance partner interact with the rest of the party about your relationship? No? Okay then.

Man. I'm glad I'm not only motivated by cutscenes with angled cameras.

[Zulhardy]

I think it's fine. I'm 100 hours into the game and experienced a fair bit of cinematics for the campaign and side-quests. Doesn't feel short. So no, I don't agree. heh

[Lebanese Dude]

Really? A waste of time? Is exploring not fun? Do you only play these types of games for art directed cut scenes? Is it not fun to simply discover something in a vast zone? To uncover a dungeon you know nothing about only to dive in and unravel it?
 

 

It's perfectly alright for someone not to enjoy something.

 

But one might wonder whether their assessment of the fun is based on their own expectations rather than the merits of the content itself.

[Kage]

Well, maybe all cinematics put together appear to be "short". But I dont think a focused main story playthrough is short at all.

 

I am rushing the main story, since I do not like MMO's quest system so you can understand I am doing almost no sidequests at all.

However, the world is so big it is very easy to end up doing some exploration, lose a lot of time crafting, and talking to all the people in Skyhold (how many are there FFS). I am 60 hours in, and I expect to end up around 80 before ending the game, or maybe even 100 hours if I decide to take out some dragons (only 1 so far).

 

This is longer than any other DA, and I am not bored of my Inquisitor yet since I can play with other companions so combat offers more variety. In Skyrim I got bored of my main character around 60 hours in, since there was no interesting story to keep me going and I just started a second character.

[In Exile]

BG2 was a pale imitation of BG.  BG is by far the superior game, in my opinion.

 

Inquisition is similarly superior.

 

I had wondered if you would have liked DA:I over BG2 given the (IMO apparent) influence from BG. 

[Lebanese Dude]

I had wondered if you would have liked DA:I over BG2 given the (IMO apparent) influence from BG. 

 

Every time someone mentions Baldur's Gate I feel like I'm missing out on an awesome experience.

Tried playing it once but I couldn't grasp the old school interface and the graphics were a turn-off since I'm not used to them.

Some day

[Kage]

Every time someone mentions Baldur's Gate I feel like I'm missing out on an awesome experience.

Tried playing it once but I couldn't grasp the old school interface and the graphics were a turn-off since I'm not used to them.

Some day

 

I played it when I was 17 I think, I wonder if I did not understood everything (old english writting) or did not get everything that was happening because I was just too young...

I dont even remember the story, romances, companions, ...

 

Maybe I try it again sometime...

[Chaos17]

While I do acknowledge the difference between vanilla BG and SoA, I don't think it's as pronounced as your post suggests and, in any event, I don't think there's any marked difference between DA:I and SoA in terms of the relatively emphasis on story vs. exploration/combat, etc. And that puts aside the general evolution in companion-specific content that has been a part of Bioware games since BG2 (companions were barely evolved in BG1). 

 

My only point was that, when we look at the evolution of Bioware games, DA:I is the closest to BG1 since, well, BG1. Even BG2 was a radical departure from what Bioware had designed originally. 

People should stop thinking that Bioware made 100% Baldur's gate serie while they co-develloped it with Black Isle.

Black Isle was kinda the main devellopper of it because when they sunk they took with them Baldur gate 3 and Fallout out 3.

While Bioware made instead Never winter night which was totally different from Baldur gate series.

They just kep the concept of it.

 

 

How on Earth can you say the main story feels short!?

I've been playing for 90 hours and I'm not done yet! 

I hope that you undertand that the main story is contained only in the maps with the green icon over them ?

[Dansrage]

I hope that you undertand that the main story is contained only in the maps with the green icon over them ?

 

Yes but is it even possible to just bumrush the entire story? There were a couple of places where I was too low level to continue a story quest and needed to reload an earlier save, and that's on normal difficulty while grinding side quests. I needed to be level 16 just to get the conclusion I wanted at the Winter Palace.

So many side quests tie into the main story, you'd miss out on a good 60% of it if you only played the 'main' quest. Just one example of many are the several hours of quests where you find out who and what Corypheus is and where he came from. 

 

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the thread, but judging the length of the game's story by excluding the majority of it because they're technically side quests seems redundant to me. You're completely justified in not including the innumerable fetch quests and filler, but so many optional quests flesh out the characters and the story. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Every time someone mentions Baldur's Gate I feel like I'm missing out on an awesome experience.
Tried playing it once but I couldn't grasp the old school interface and the graphics were a turn-off since I'm not used to them.
Some day

If you're going to overcome the graphics and interface to play a classic CRPG, go all the way and play Ultima IV.

They're both available from GOG.com.

[Sylvius the Mad]

People should stop thinking that Bioware made 100% Baldur's gate serie while they co-develloped it with Black Isle.
Black Isle was kinda the main devellopper of it because when they sunk they took with them Baldur gate 3 and Fallout out 3.

Black Isle offered guidance and acted as publisher (they held the rights to AD&D at the time) but the core of Baldur's Gate was developed independently by BioWare under the name Battleground Infinity. Then, when they were pitching it to publishers, Black Isle (which was a division of Interplay, just as BioWare is a division of EA today) suggested they convert it to an AD&D game and agreed to publish it if they would.

[FKA_Servo]

I played it when I was 17 I think, I wonder if I did not understood everything (old english writting) or did not get everything that was happening because I was just too young...

I dont even remember the story, romances, companions, ...

 

Maybe I try it again sometime...

 

I'm well aware that this is probably a heretical statement, but the EE in the Ipad is worth picking up, if you want to revisit (and of course, if you have an ipad). The interface works well, and it's nice to be able to truck it around with you.

[pinkjellybeans]

Opinions are cute but that's all they are. Opinions can also be ill-formed, typically when they are formed from misconceptions, exaggeration, and nostalgic bias. Nor are they sacrosanct; an infallible entity that cannot be criticized. Those are facts, which you have only used sparingly and choose to ignore even when presented. 

 

I don't even care what you think about the content, but rather I was trying to give you some insight on the whole development process as you are conflating the exploration design with the writing (and continue to do so).

 

But seeing as your first reaction to a criticism was to go on the defensive, it seems you aren't interested in talking. 

Nor am I interested in conversing with a brick wall. Have a nice day.

 

 

lol Whatever. I'm also not interested in talking to someone who thinks their opinion is better than everyone else's and act all high and mighty because they know some fancy words and think they are right and everyone else is wrong. I went into defensive mode because you said things like I'm "short-sighted to ask BioWare" when I wasn't asking anything, I was only giving an opinion, or that I'm "ruining other people's fun". And you started telling me how I should play the game, that for the sake of not getting bored of the side quests I should just ignore half of them on my first playthrough. Riiiight.

 

You talk like you were in the room since day one of this game's development. Unless you're a Bioware dev in disguise, you were not there, so you don't know how any of their decisions were made and how this game was developed. So stop talking like you know, you're only giving your opinion, just like I'm giving mine. And again, the fact that they had quests planned like saving a village or protecting a Keep kind of shows they had bigger things planned for these worlds and not just the never ending fetch quests. Also, to prove my point they wrote on a blog entry "there were some things the team wanted to get in at launch, but we just ran out of time. We’ll be creating these new features and content and adding them into your game over time". So yes, in my opinion, their priority was the creation of the worlds, so the story (along with other things) suffered the consequences. If you have a different opinion, fine, but don't start telling me how I am wrong and you are right just because you don't agree. I'd like to make it clear that I do think the worlds are beautiful and I had fun exploring some of them despite everything. But by all means, don't waste your time with this brick wall, I'll certainly won't waste more of mine with you, Miranda.

[Sah291]

Yes, I agree with the OP...

I did often feel far away and distant from my character, because of the lack of close up camera angle and fewer cinematics....like I kept feeling the urge to zoom in.

I think 10 years ago it would have been fine. It seemed like they were trying to go back to an older style with more text/dialog, but perhaps (sadly) I've just been too desensitized over the years from constant action in films/games that it was harder for me to connect to my character? To enjoy the side quests, you really had to spend time reading notes/codex and using your imagination. Maybe the sandbox thing isn't my cup of tea and I prefer a more guided narrative, but I also felt like just having the ability to zoom the camera in would have helped with immersion immensely.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I had wondered if you would have liked DA:I over BG2 given the (IMO apparent) influence from BG.

Indeed I do. I would rank DAI as one of BioWare's three best games (with BG and NWN).

They all do different things better than each other, but they're all excellent.

[FKA_Servo]

It would only bother me if they had animated all of the speaking NPCs with the same care they do for the actual cutscenes.

 

Even in the real cutscenes and cinematic convos from past games, all characters were heavily afflicted with what I refer to as "resting Bioware face." They'd have their derpy, neutral expression, then they'd say something happy/sad/mad/whatever, and they'd emote while delivering the lines, but immediately revert to the RBF. This plagued all the mass effect games and both previous DA games.

 

This game, in some instances, the emotion they've been able to convey through facial expressions is astonishing. If that doesn't carry through in all the interaction, then I don't miss it.

[Spaceweed10]

I couldn't agree less, and no, we can't 'all agree', etc.

[Spaceweed10]

Opinions are cute but that's all they are. Opinions can also be ill-formed, typically when they are formed from misconceptions, exaggeration, and nostalgic bias. Nor are they sacrosanct; an infallible entity that cannot be criticized. Those are facts, which you have only used sparingly and choose to ignore even when presented. 

 

I don't even care what you think about the content, but rather I was trying to give you some insight on the whole development process as you are conflating the exploration design with the writing (and continue to do so).

 

But seeing as your first reaction to a criticism was to go on the defensive, it seems you aren't interested in talking. 

Nor am I interested in conversing with a brick wall. Have a nice day.

 

 

Wow, condescending much?