90 réponses à ce sujet

[Catastrophy]

I had quite a good experience with Barrier, Chain lightning, Mindblast and the Disruption Field.

I choose a fat guy to follow and keep close so I can barrier us both at least. If I run out of barrier there is this upgrade from mindblast that should give a sliver of barriers back. I think I also took the thing where you deal damage when the barrier gets destroyed. In theory that should give some extra damage but with all the stuff happening I didn't notice it triggering.

 

The idea is giving the warrior backup with stuns, staggers, barrier and DF in case an escape plan is needed.

I'm going to try out Static cage next and will probably dump Disruption Field. The slowed projectiles entering the field look nice, though - like in bullet time, but you better keep clear before the field runs out.

[konfeta]

The only tragedy of the Keeper is that it doesn't get Stonefist :/

[tbxvividos]

The only tragedy of the Keeper is that it doesn't get Stonefist :/

Here's my most recent discovery, thanks to Reginald talking me into testing energy barrage...

Step 1) chain lightning for shock
Step 2) the passive that gives all your attacks chance to weaken on hit
Step 3) energy barrage detonation.

What you see:
Shock + weaken = sleep
sleep + detonation = nightmare

Energy barrage alone can proc multiple nightmares on a single target.

Who needs stonefist? ^^

(Yes, this works on bosses. Not demon commander, but templar for sure and I think venatori as well)

[konfeta]

Well, in case it's not obvious, Stonefist/Chainlightning would let you put entire rooms to sleep on an 8 second cooldown with no gap in Weakened status up time.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Yeah, after testing Stasis Field tonight it looks like I'll be reverting back to my previous build with Barrier, Chain Lightning, Energy Barrage and Fade Step.  I may use Fade Cloak instead of Fade Step for the utility though.

[stgrey]

Just created Keeper, what will you say about Barrier, Static Cage, Disruption Field, Dispel build?

[tbxvividos]

Yeah, after testing Stasis Field tonight it looks like I'll be reverting back to my previous build with Barrier, Chain Lightning, Energy Barrage and Fade Step. I may use Fade Cloak instead of Fade Step for the utility though.

For keeper I've definitely come to prefer frost step, surprisingly.

[Reginald Cousins]

Only time cloak could ever replace step for a keeper would be when grouping with an AW or 2her warrior using the GS with the Abyss proc or when you run a SLOW group who pulls everything around the corner.  Step provides more utility than cloak could ever provide with its comboing, mobility, and zero mana cost.  And if cloak is somehow needed over step to survive, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the build and/or the group play.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Fair enough.  I actually use both Step and Cloak on my Necro and have been playing her the most lately so I have come to appreciate Cloak.  Still, my previous Keeper build had Step so I can confirm its effectiveness.  I'm just slightly biased after having both Step and Cloak and often find myself using Cloak more often in combat; then again, I still have Step when it is needed.  Step is definitely the safer bet for the Keeper though.

[MadMaximoff]

So since Static Field no longer works against Commanders and that Static Cage isn't all that "Great" I've been planning on a different build built around Dispel and Buffing Barrier to ridiculous heights.

 

It's a little more group orientated but it should be quite interesting:

 

The Planned Build: 12 Protection 8 Primal. 

 

Hotbar Skills: Arcing Surge (Chain lightning,) Barrier, Fade Cloak, Dispel

 

Upgrades: Chain Lightning, Transmute Magic, Elegant Defence.

 

Branched Passives: Guardian Spirit, Mana Surge, Knight Protector, Veiled Riposte, Strength of Spirits. Restorative Veil

 

Path Unlocked Passives: Clean Burn, Conductive Current, Disturbance of Spirit, Gathering Storm, Rejuvenating Barrier, Peaceful Aura, Cycle of Life, Natures Shield, Winters Stillness.

 

What it brings to the table: One of the hardest to kill Multiplayer Classes in the game, you literally have every single tool that will make you tankier than a Legionnaire, you're trading up cloaking Blast for Veiled Riposte to exchange your panic PBAoE for utility to your party, Arcing Surge and Dispel combo off each other, but the main reason you're going this way is to provide exceptional utility to your team.

 

Pros: 

 

-No more team mates trapped by lockdown CC, Dispel = they are safe from annoying CC

 

-Barriers upon barriers, you'll be in Barrier state more than you wont.

 

-Tanks not only benefit from you barriering them so they can safely generate guard, they are actually able to deal quite a scary amount of Backlash damage if they have "It'll cost you" Talented.

 

-Extremely Mana efficient, going OOM will be incredibly rare and you should always have enough to throw out barrier whenever it's off CD.

 

-Extremely hard to kill, the hardest to kill class in Multiplayer.

 

-Extremely strong against the Demon Commander and the Venatori Commander

 

-Boss at Reviving downed team mates, you're the safest choice for doing revivals.

 

Cons:

 

-Much more reliant on the team to do damage.

 

-Despite Tankiness, not very good at soloing (too slow)

 

-May feel useless if you have a poor team

 

-Not going to top any scoreboards, expect it to be a thankless task.

 

-Not as good as Static Cage build against the Red Templar Commander since you'll lose a lot of your potential utility against him (Melees playing keep away so Veiled Riposte isn't coming into play)

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit: Fun Fact, this is pretty similar to the build I run on my Rift Mage in Single Player, however since there are more skills, My Rift Mage runs Immolate, Flash Fire, Fade Pull and Fade Step instead of Fade Cloak (since it's a class exclusive) the meat of the tanky build is very much there though, My Rift Mage never dies (Yesterday I stumbled upon the Dragon in Emerald Graves and took it down on first attempt at level 17)

 

I refused to use Knight Enchanter or even take one Dragon Hunting as I feel it cheapens the encounter.

[iLogic]

My favorite and best build so far include Fade Step(Upgraded) / Fade Cloak(Upgraded) / Barrier(Upgraded) / (Chain Lightning or Static Cage (Upgraded))

 

I'm leaning towards Static Cage over Chain Lightning, but I generally grab the Chain Lightning upgrade because it destroys routine and is better for solo runs.

[tbxvividos]

@both posters above me:
Change fade cloak to frost step.

Absolutely zero reason to use fade cloak on keeper.

Frost step is much, much better.

And this is coming from a former fade cloak fan.

[MadMaximoff]

@both posters above me:
Change fade cloak to frost step.

Absolutely zero reason to use fade cloak on keeper.

Frost step is much, much better.

And this is coming from a former fade cloak fan.

 

It's a latency thing.

 

You get one bad latency game with a Demon Commander, you'll be wishing you had Fade Cloak instead of Frost Step, until they resolve this by altering the time window to compensate for latency off-Host (I'm on Fibre Optic and still get lag from poor hosts) Fade Cloak is going to be the "Go To" for Multiplayer because the instant protection it offers against the Demon Commander is much needed.

 

Edit: As for Zero Reason, Keepers can and should tuck in just behind the front line, this allows you to constantly keep barriers on a minimum of two people (Yourself and the tank) in a group with another Melee like a Reaver, Katari, Assassin or Alch, you absolutely should be tucked in to get the most survivability.

[tbxvividos]

I guess my cable > your fiber optic then.
because I hardly ever get bad hosts, and when I do get one I just leave.
also, fade cloak isn't instant if you're lagging, it will have a delay as well.

On perilous I can frost step to dodge demon commander
or Sprint jump to dodge him
Or just have a barrier up to tank him

I still don't see any reason for keeper specifically to use fade cloak.

Using fade cloak also presents more risk of having him do his panic attack, which leads to his ranged phase. Using frost step to maintain distance allows you to kite him endlessly and never let him do ranged phase.

[knownastherat]

Unless Mind Blast/Clean Burn is bugged, Keeper does not need to be static behind lines. It was noted earlier in the thread but Mind Blast, Frost Step, Barrier and ability of preference and Keeper can become quite mobile, maybe even aggressive.

 

Team mate swarmed and overwhelmed, Frost Step (it can be curved through multiple targets) in, Mind Blast to give some breathing room to the swarmed one, Barrier for both .. whatever probably Mind Blast again :)  Mind Blast is dirt cheap and on low cd that even without upgrade and being detonator is worth considering, admittedly for certain play-style.  

[PurpGuy1]

Unless Mind Blast/Clean Burn is bugged, Keeper does not need to be static behind lines. It was noted earlier in the thread but Mind Blast, Frost Step, Barrier and ability of preference and Keeper can become quite mobile, maybe even aggressive.

 

Team mate swarmed and overwhelmed, Frost Step (it can be curved through multiple targets) in, Mind Blast to give some breathing room to the swarmed one, Barrier for both .. whatever probably Mind Blast again  Mind Blast is dirt cheap and on low cd that even without upgrade and being detonator is worth considering, admittedly for certain play-style.  

 

Novaguard Keeper?

[knownastherat]

Novaguard? I am not familiar. There are other possibilities. Ranged attacking you? Pop Barrier and pray they go down faster than your cd? Frost Step in, Mind Blast to stagger and drop aggro, maybe zap them with something, and Mind Blast again Frost Step out. 300% weapon damage on Frost Step is not much but it can chill two and more enemies in most situations. So that is debuff. Needless to say that sometimes its faster to Frost Step and cast Barrier than try to aim it. What I miss on Keeper is some sort of health regeneration especially because it makes risky play well sometimes too risky. 

[Reginald Cousins]

Only time dispel is actually useful is when you have a full squishy melee lineup (like 3 kataris or something silly) against DC.  Because other than that just how often is a person "locked down" from CC that a barrier won't save them from it?  Dispel is a waste of a skill slot.  Keep that skill for singleplayer.

 

As for the latency issue with step and cloak, it sounds like you should simply just host instead of always joining these bad public host games where you're forced to use an inferior skill.  You don't need cloak to be "tucked" within the front lines.  Cloak doesn't allow you to do that, barrier does.  Step provides you the mobility to do numerous things and it provides a good bit of dmg + team comboing.

[MadMaximoff]

Only time dispel is actually useful is when you have a full squishy melee lineup (like 3 kataris or something silly) against DC.  Because other than that just how often is a person "locked down" from CC that a barrier won't save them from it?  Dispel is a waste of a skill slot.  Keep that skill for singleplayer.

 

As for the latency issue with step and cloak, it sounds like you should simply just host instead of always joining these bad public host games where you're forced to use an inferior skill.  You don't need cloak to be "tucked" within the front lines.  Cloak doesn't allow you to do that, barrier does.  Step provides you the mobility to do numerous things and it provides a good bit of dmg + team comboing.

 

Low mana cost Eldrich Detonator Combo.

 

Grants a 25% + Damage boost

 

Grants an extra 50% Barrier

 

As for Cloak being weaker, I suppose it's point of view. Frost Step will still get hit by Full Draw and other lock-on projectiles, Fade Cloak does not.

 

Having tried both, I prefer Fade Cloak as it presents me more opportunities to abuse Winters Stillness, even get an extra tick of it off whereas those opportunities are entirely lost with Frost step since Frost Step is a movement ability that ends the Winters Stillness effect.

 

Afterall how is 2 seconds of total immunity lesser?

 

Here's how I see it.

 

Frost Step: Positioning, Aggressive plays, Maintaining distance.

 

Fade Cloak: Survivability, Closer knit with front line, not positional.

 

It's more down to playstyle than "This skill is superior and you must stop playing off-host"

 

If that was the case, everyone would be forced to solo as nobody would off-host ever.

[tbxvividos]

300% weapon damage to multiple targets + chill is nothing to scoff at. I've gotten over 1k frost step crits and can kite melee with ease due to chill. You can also kill entire groups of enemies with a chain lightning + frost step combo, preventing a need to kite or ranged from shooting anyone.

And why are you talking about archers full drawing you as a keeper? That's ONLY something that would happen if you're using fade cloak, because with frost step I'm never in a position where that would happen. And even if I was, I have barrier. That's the entire point.

You're welcome to enjoy fade cloak, I used to as well and still do on other characters. But from a min/max, high level play standpoint...And when taking into account synergy between abilities (especially with people here talking about mind blast now) frost step can factually be proven to be superior.

You don't need 2 worthless seconds of invincibility because you have barrier. That's what it does.

You don't need any seconds of invincibility because frost step gives you the positional advantage and kiting ability.

You don't need 2 extra seconds of standing still because there's not a single keeper ability rotation that would rely on it.

What you DO need is a source of mobile dps.

What you DO need is a get out of jail free card as opposed to a postpone the inevitable card.

What you DO need is an additional way to stop enemies from attacking -anyone- as opposed to just not attacking -you- (chill. Movement)

Frost step IS better. Maybe YOU like fade cloak more, but there really isn't any way to argue the merits over taking it over frost step if someone is wondering what's BEST.

[MadMaximoff]

And why are you talking about archers full drawing you as a keeper? That's ONLY something that would happen if you're using fade cloak, because with frost step I'm never in a position where that would happen. And even if I was, I have barrier. That's the entire point.
 

 

Aggro Bug means that Archers will ignore tanks and try to full Draw you, remember not everyone is at a level of play where Frost Step is the perfect choice, for a lot of Beginners, Casual players and people that are still improving their equipment and play. Fade Cloak will save them more often than Frost Step could.

 

It also doesn't fit into every single build, the one I'm using means there's only 1 point to take an escape ability, in the case where you don't have either improved versions, Fade Cloak is much better.

 

It's only the damage portion when well geared where Frost Step starts to be arguably more useful (and I do say arguably since it's easy enough to Barrier > Arc lightning >Cloak > Barrier) but only when Geared.

 

Not everyone has astounding RNG luck, a lot of people are just starting out in the Multiplayer campaign, so for those people that are starting out, Fade Cloak will be more beneficial until they are geared enough to make the choice between the two.

 

That's a choice best left to each individual imho, not everyone is going to like Fade Cloak for it's lack of mobility, not everyone is going to like Frost Steps disorienting re positioning. So it really is a choice of personal preference.

 

As if we want to bring the Min/Max argument in, what's stopping a Keeper from going front line, throwing down static cage and using Decloaking Detonation which has a 1000% weapon damage in a PBAOE?

 

Not every Keeper wants to be a DPS machine, the role is very much one of support and some people like that playstyle.

 

Edit: The Elementalist or Necromancer are more suited to being DPS, they have a kit more suited to it, the Keepers kit is very much suited to supporting with some DPS added in.

[PurpGuy1]

I've been using Barrier, Chain Lightning, Energy Barrage, and then taking Mindblast to open pots.

 

Does Frost Step open pots as reliably as Mindblast?  If so then I might try it out.  If not, then meh

[Shahadem]

Novaguard Keeper?

 

Not even close.

 

The Keeper lacks the high damage output and infinite guard creation needed to be a Novaguard.

 

Also she has a terrible hairstyle.

[tbxvividos]

it's easy enough to Barrier > Arc lightning >Cloak > Barrier

Except cloak costs 20 mana.

Math.

[Drasca]

People can do whatever they want with decent gear on threatening and below, but every keeper trying to 'dps' with Chain lightning is a total noob. Energy Barrage on a sleeped target via Static Cage --> Veilstrike --> Energy Barrage is the new hotness, but it is limited to boss and high hp targets. Elementalists still do DPS WAY better AND have more reliable barrier refreshes (due to flashpoint for instant cooldown & death siphon for mana restoration). If you have starter or near-starter gear (any staff below item level 20 really), you should not even consider CL on your skill bar. Even with Pyre of the forgotten at weapon damage 70, it is absolutely wasted mana and spell cast time when there are archers, reavers, elementalists, etc that will kill and overkill the enemies rendering your chain lightning 'damage' meaningless.

 

If you want to actually keep your party alive, control the battlefield, and have ability points to spare:

 

Barrier, Fade Cloak (or fade step), Static Cage / Lightning Cage & Disruption field (upgraded).

 

Pure support, requires no gear to be effective (as all those skills are not weapon damage dependent).

 

Grab, Winter's stillness, guardian spirit & knight enchanter (+ barrier duration) along the way to bee-lining to static cage + disruption field. Enjoy God mode barriers and Fade Cloak invincibility / self debuff / exit out of stun / knockdown.

 

You won't die, your party won't die, and watch mooks go crazy trying to run away from your area CC, or stop to a standstill in packed doorways & boss / miniboss control with Disruption field.