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[Xilizhra]

Being a typical Templar supporter means to be right then? Thank you.
Tevinter made an offer, venatori spies claimed it as benefitial and Fiona accepted it.
What exactly is só out of the ordinary about this that it excuses her actions when she could havê simply said "No"?
The undeniable fact is that not only was the mage leadership willing to ally with Tevinter, they did so in direct betrayal of the one kingdom willing to shelter them.
I think it is obvious just on whose side the mages are.

Of course Lucius'actions were madness. It is why the Inquisitor personally leads the members of the Order into violent rebellion against their corrupt superiors. Where were the mages protesting Fiona's decision?

There was Connor but that was it. The people of Redcliff being sold, Tranquil being decapited and the mages just going along with.

Of the three mages whom we actually get to speak with, two protested it, so yeah.

 

But ultimately, all that matters to me is that the rebellion can actually win in the long-term.

[Xilizhra]

Only the Inquisition wins. The rebellion is at it's mercy, win or lose.

Whatever works. I have my ending.

[Xilizhra]

You do. I'm just saying, you're kind of focused on another, inferior movement. As if they won anything themselves.

In this case, I care about the goal more than the process. The rebellion didn't have to win itself to have its goals reached.

[Xilizhra]

I think it needed to win hearts and minds, which it never really did. It's timing was off, they made bad choices, and despite all the idiocy of the Templars, people still view Templars fondly.

There were a lot of mistakes made, to be sure--it isn't like they had any actual military minds there. But it all worked out in the end; the mages are free and the templars are gone.

[Xilizhra]

I think when you have victories aided by some outsider, but without actually winning people over "on the ground" enough, it turns out like some of the policies and goverments in a post-war phase (think Iraq).

Leliana did win people over on the ground. The epilogue said that mages have gained unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

Well, damn.

 

Maybe that poster Bread was right. It really does sound Mary Sue-ish. Good on her. I guess.

Well, the rebels did help the Herald of Andraste seal the Breach. I imagine that helped.

[Starki113r]

I'm used to siding with mages, but found myself drawn more to the templars, especially after playing both sides through.

 

Mages: chose to become pricks. Templars: tricked into becoming monstrosities. I'd rather give the loyal men-at-arms deceived by their commanders a chance at salvation than help the mages out of the bind they willingly got themselves into.

[The Hierophant]

Well, the rebels did help the Herald of Andraste seal the Breach. I imagine that helped.

Did you spare Loghain after seeing the parallels between his and the mages' dealings with Tevinter?

[Xilizhra]

And yet, the other endings aren't nearly as happy. They're not bad either, but they're not like that.

 

 

If it's that easy to resolve everything, I'm tempted to side with Leliana and mages myself. Because beyond all of the little issues, all I ultimately want is an end and some damn peace. If that's easy, then what's the point of standing for anything else. It's almost like there was no problem to begin with.

Well, it's not easy. The Divine and all of her senior grand clerics had to be killed at once, the templars all had to be killed or turned into red lyrium fiends and then killed, the mages had to have an advocate widely considered to be a second prophet... there are tons of bizarre happenstances that had to go just the right way for all this to work out. And yet it did.

 

 

Did you spare Loghain after seeing the parallels between his and the mages' dealings with Tevinter?

I was always inclined to spare Loghain; I only killed him because I liked Alistair's dialogue more. But he's alive in my current world state (well, maybe not alive anymore after confronting the Nightmare).

[Xilizhra]

It's easy because all of this deatht, strife, and drama, Leliana just had to blink her eyes and........ talk to people.

 

How stupid of us. We should have done this before it all escalated.

Wasn't that, like, the entire point of this arc?

[Ieldra]

Well, I see this thread is already populated by the usual suspects....

 

Anyway, IMO Bioware did a much better job presenting reasonable incentives for choosing either side than in previous games. No longer do I feel like a fascist when supporting the templars, or like "helping dangerous people run amok" when supporting the mages. I think the choices are presented in a mostly well-balanced way, maybe a little weighted in favor of the templars with all the mages who said good things about their time in the Circle and with the pro-mage viewpoint being less present on-screen overall, but that's ok. 

 

If I still have a hard time choosing the templars, that has more to do with the fact that the mages and templars represent opposing themes where I have a strong personal predisposition - namely, the higher degree of individual autonomy magic makes possible, against the element of social control that would always try to chain the autonomous individual on the pretext it's dangerous for the community. Also, the templars give off too much of a "religious police" vibe, which isn't just bad in itself but compounds the issue. So, most of my games will be mage games.

 

From a storytelling viewpoint, I think that "In Hushed Whispers" is a more compelling mission than "Champions of the just". On the other hand, I haven't seen Calpurnia yet but it appears she's more compelling as an antagonist. So that balances out. Also, both sides made stupid decisions so that also balances out. The mission design sequence favors the templars though, since "Champions of the Just" becomes available earlier than "In Hushed Whispers", and people who want to continue the main plot may choose the former without being aware of the fact that there is another path they're closing off. That almost happened to me in my first game, in spite of knowing about the fork.

 

As for the final result of a pro-mage storyline, I remember the words I put into my Warden's mouth: "Maybe if we save their asses, they'll sing a different tune about mages." And so it went. I suspect that in the aftermath, the mage community has every interest in keeping abominations from appearing, and contained if they appear, just as they did before since I think it's reasonable to assume your average mage would rather be dead or tranquil than possessed, and also out of a need to prove themselves in that regard as well. Only they don't have an order of religious fanatics ideologically predisposed against magic breathing down their necks. Notwithstanding the fact that many individual templars appear to be ok people, I can only see this as an improvement.

 

What do the pro-templar epilogues look like?

[raging_monkey]

Well, I see this thread is already populated by the usual suspects....
 
Anyway, IMO Bioware did a much better job presenting reasonable incentives for choosing either side than in previous games. No longer do I feel like a fascist when supporting the templars, or like "helping dangerous people run amok" when supporting the mages. I think the choices are presented in a mostly well-balanced way, maybe a little weighted in favor of the templars with all the mages who said good things about their time in the Circle and with the pro-mage viewpoint being less present on-screen overall, but that's ok. 
 
If I still have a hard time choosing the templars, that has more to do with the fact that the mages and templars represent opposing themes where I have a strong personal predisposition - namely, the higher degree of individual autonomy magic makes possible, against the element of social control that would always try to chain the autonomous individual on the pretext it's dangerous for the community. Also, the templars give off too much of a "religious police" vibe, which isn't just bad in itself but compounds the issue. So, most of my games will be mage games.
 
From a storytelling viewpoint, I think that "In Hushed Whispers" is a more compelling mission than "Champions of the just". On the other hand, I haven't seen Calpurnia yet but it appears she's more compelling as an antagonist. So that balances out. Also, both sides made stupid decisions so that also balances out. The mission design sequence favors the templars though, since "Champions of the Just" becomes available earlier than "In Hushed Whispers", and people who want to continue the main plot may choose the former without being aware of the fact that there is another path they're closing off. That almost happened to me in my first game, in spite of knowing about the fork.
 
As for the final result of a pro-mage storyline, I remember the words I put into my Warden's mouth: "Maybe if we save their asses, they'll sing a different tune about mages." And so it went. I suspect that in the aftermath, the mage community has every interest in keeping abominations from appearing, and contained if they appear, just as they did before since I think it's reasonable to assume your average mage would rather be dead or tranquil than possessed, and also out of a need to prove themselves in that regard as well. Only they don't have an order of religious fanatics ideologically predisposed against magic breathing down their necks. Notwithstanding the fact that many individual templars appear to be ok people, I can only see this as an improvement.
 
What do the pro-templar epilogues look like?

the status quo is upheld but its reformed. Thats basically it

[herkles]

Why do you keep asking this when I answered it already? They'll work for the College just like they worked for the Circle before. Though the Chantry's new charity focus under Leliana would be wisely spent in part on ensuring that you don't get any homeless mages, which sounds like a bad idea.

interested in opinions beyond yours? there are other posters besides you? or if you answer a question, no one else can ask that question again?

 

id like for both pay and work. Keeps them grounded. Problem is with mages they are cared for like children. Make them work for it like the mundanes

I agree. Even if they don't have to pay for it. Mages shouldn't be entitled to free food, education, hot baths, clothes, and everything else that is free. If I was anything but a noble(and perhaps not even then) that would make me rather envious. But having the mages do work for people it helps the mages in a number of ways.

 

1.) wins the hearts and minds of people; this is important as without having the trust of people then tension will always remain.

2.) helps suport their magical education: they wish to be mages so they have to support the circle/college as a whole. 

3.) helps keep them humble. When you are a man/woman who has the power of a mage, it is rather easy to believe you are better then others. that power can go to people's heads, but having to do work including things like farming, gardening,helping with construction and so on. can help keep the mages more humble.

[Br3admax]

Nah, I'm good with being fat, lazy, and living in a church funded palace, thanks. 

[The Baconer]

I'm used to siding with mages, but found myself drawn more to the templars, especially after playing both sides through.

 

Mages: chose to become pricks. Templars: tricked into becoming monstrosities. I'd rather give the loyal men-at-arms deceived by their commanders a chance at salvation than help the mages out of the bind they willingly got themselves into.

 

Stating that "the Templars were tricked" is conveniently exempting those complicit in distributing red Lyrium, and those who agreed with Lucius, as if these men and women weren't Templars themselves. But, rest assured, all the mages decided to become dicks.

 

It's a rather duplicitous method to draw a comparison between the two factions.

[raging_monkey]

Stating that "the Templars were tricked" is conveniently exempting those complicit in distributing red Lyrium, and those who agreed with Lucius, as if these men and women weren't Templars themselves. But, rest assured, all the mages decided to become dicks.
 
It's a rather duplicitous method to draw a comparison between the two factions.

works though haha

[Br3admax]

The Templars weren't tricked, their superiors willingly gave their recruits Red Lyrium. The Knights, who are the ones we save, were just following orders. Mostly because if they didn't they were killed.