1029 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Stating that "the Templars were tricked" is conveniently exempting those complicit in distributing red Lyrium, and those who agreed with Lucius, as if these men and women weren't Templars themselves. But, rest assured, all the mages decided to become dicks.

 

It's a rather duplicitous method to draw a comparison between the two factions.

 

In the Templar side, you have an option to lead a faction of Templars against the corrupt officers so as to restore their Order and mandate. The very fact the Envy Demon had to resort to purging the ranks, proves that there was resistance to the plan.

 

On the other hand, the mages who participate in the rebellion do so of their own choosing since a great number did join Vivienne's faction.

And afterwards, while it is probably true that only Fiona and maybe a few others conducted negotiations with Tevinter, there was no resistance whatsoever to their presence.

So, the extremists mages betrayed and enslaved the people of Redcliff. The moderate mages just allowed it to happen.

[Engraved]

"I'd like to go one week without meeting an insane mage. Just. One. Week!"

 

The rebel mages remind me of the Tal-Vashoth (or even Chaos Space Marines). They are so used to having this huge government edifice look after them that they don't know how to integrate properly into the real world. They don't know how to use their abilities to make an honest living so they resort to banditry. They have no concept of how to win the people over to support their cause because they think the whole world is out to get them because that is what they were told by their leaders. Except their leaders are really just as clueless as their followers are, so naturally they end up as mewling parasites clinging to Redcliffe and later the Venatori. At no point do the rebel mages oppose their leaders directly.

 

The Templars are designed to be unquestioningly loyal to their superiors, especially the Seekers. So it comes as no surprise that when their senior officers are told to swap their Lyrium rations to this red stuff on the orders of the Lord Seeker himself, they would not question it. Then the officers in turn infect the junior officers and rank-and-file with red lyrium. Those who refuse are killed. Eventually the order splits, with the true templars either dying for their cause or surviving to join the Inquisition.

 

I support the Templars, because all the mages worth saving already work for you.

[The Baconer]

In the Templar side, you have an option to lead a faction of Templars against the corrupt officers so as to restore their Order and mandate. The very fact the Envy Demon had to resort to purging the ranks, proves that there was resistance to the plan.

 

The purge and the armed resistance that made it necessary didn't even occur until the Inquisitor arrived in Therinfal after gathering support from the noble families.

 

 

On the other hand, the mages who participate in the rebellion do so of their own choosing since a great number did join Vivienne's faction.

 

And? The Templars at Therinfal were themselves part of a rebellion, following an outspoken lunatic by their own accord. What's your point?

 

 

And afterwards, while it is probably true that only Fiona and maybe a few others conducted negotiations with Tevinter, there was no resistance whatsoever to their presence.

So, the extremists mages betrayed and enslaved the people of Redcliff. The moderate mages just allowed it to happen.

 

You're saying this based off of what? In the alternate timeline, Fiona herself was imprisoned for her disobedience along with your companions, and she's the last person one would ever expect to do so.

[yawnandshrug]

Mage mostly, but i'm considering going templar in a mage playthrough for that sweet sweet staff calpernia drops #lootlust

[NugHugs]

Really? That's interesting. I thought Samson kinda sucked as a villain. I mean, he provided great characterization for Cullen, but Samson was just kinda meh.

 

Lol, I think you misunderstood what I meant? Choosing the templars gives you Calpernia as an enemy, which is why I said templars.

[dragonflight288]

At the very least, with the new game out, the mage/templar debate has more to work with and more things to discuss overall, and it's not just "you can't compare all templars to Alrik" "Well you can't compare all mages to Tevinter or Quentin!" "I can because that's all I saw in DA2!" "Well so did I on the other side!"

 

Ultimately, I think the argument that the templars were tricked or just following orders falls flat for one, very simple reason. That Cleric who gets punched across the face, if you go talk to her and ask about how widespread the templar rebellion is, she says that some templars chose to stay with the Chantry, but not enough to call themselves an order. This is like how some mages chose to stay with Vivienne. 

 

We also had some mages in the Inquisition, as well as some Templars, before choosing a side. 

 

The rank and file on the templars are bigger victims than the rank and file on the mages side, but the leaders on the mages side have a far more rationale reason for what they did than the leaders on the templar side. I can understand, even though I disagree, with Fiona being desperate and her back against the wall. Even after meeting the Envy Demon, doing Cassandra's side quest where we meet the real Lucius, the templars's reasons for infecting their own members with red lyrium, and then kidnapping an entire town to feed red lyrium and turn into monsters ultimately comes down to.....just because. Lord-Seeker Lucius apparently wanted to remake the Seekers after discovering the little tranquil secret by turning all templars and seekers into raving lunatics addicted to a deadlier form of lyrium and serve an ancient tevinter magister for...reasons. 

 

It just doesn't make sense. 

[x82nd]

The way the choices are presented in game make it an easy choice really. On one hand you have the Templars who punched an old woman and marched off on their own. On the other hand you have an insane Teventer mage who is tearing time apart with his magic. 

 

It is also stated that the mages are a surefire way to give you enough power to close the breach while Cullen argues he believes the templars could weaken the breach enough that it could be closed. Your other advisers even dispute that it is a theory and might not work. Given these facts the logical path is clear.

 

Logic aside both paths are great quests. One gives you time traveling and seeing the future which from a story perspective is great since you know the Elder Ones plans while the other gives you a much better introduction to Cole and some extra ability points. 

[Ryriena]

I go for the Mages because I mean the Mages could stop the blight and do great things and horrible things though story wise I think going for the Templars makes sense. However, I say screw the Chantry I am for not treating people as prisoners for being born a certain way. Plus, Dorian is awsome who would not say no to him as a friend and campion. I might make a Charcter that would side with the Templars when I get around my main guys play throughs.

[Asari_Party]

Always mages. The Inquisition already has some reasonable templars among its ranks and I wouldn't trust anyone who is still loyal to the templar order after the conclave.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Always mages. The Inquisition already has some reasonable templars among its ranks and I wouldn't trust anyone who is still loyal to the templar order after the conclave.

This. The reasonable templars left already so the only ones left are those who still want to hunt the mages. Also, considering that if you side with the templars, the conversation with Cassandra has a templar saying that the inquisition mages should be punished which shows that the templars still want to hunt down mages even with the breach.

 

Also, I found it funny that if Cassandra becomes divine where she reforms the templars to try and protect mages and the innocent, very few templars rejoin the order yet if Vivienne becomes divine where she doesn't change the templars, most templars leave the inquisition to rejoin the order. This just shows that the templars are still mage haters and why I support the mages.

[TK514]

A

The rank and file on the templars are bigger victims than the rank and file on the mages side, but the leaders on the mages side have a far more rationale reason for what they did than the leaders on the templar side. I can understand, even though I disagree, with Fiona being desperate and her back against the wall. Even after meeting the Envy Demon, doing Cassandra's side quest where we meet the real Lucius, the templars's reasons for infecting their own members with red lyrium, and then kidnapping an entire town to feed red lyrium and turn into monsters ultimately comes down to.....just because. Lord-Seeker Lucius apparently wanted to remake the Seekers after discovering the little tranquil secret by turning all templars and seekers into raving lunatics addicted to a deadlier form of lyrium and serve an ancient tevinter magister for...reasons. 

 

It just doesn't make sense. 

 

Actually, his reasoning is explained in Cassandra's companion mission.  He's joined/reformed a cult that believes the only way the Maker will return is if everything on Thedas is dead so He can start over.  Lucius is insane and stupid, but he does give his reasons.

[dragonflight288]

Actually, his reasoning is explained in Cassandra's companion mission.  He's joined/reformed a cult that believes the only way the Maker will return is if everything on Thedas is dead so He can start over.  Lucius is insane and stupid, but he does give his reasons.

 

yeah, and they still make no sense. 

[Jayce]

He's crazy. Of course it doesn't make sense.

[Mr.House]

This. The reasonable templars left already so the only ones left are those who still want to hunt the mages. Also, considering that if you side with the templars, the conversation with Cassandra has a templar saying that the inquisition mages should be punished which shows that the templars still want to hunt down mages even with the breach.

 

Also, I found it funny that if Cassandra becomes divine where she reforms the templars to try and protect mages and the innocent, very few templars rejoin the order yet if Vivienne becomes divine where she doesn't change the templars, most templars leave the inquisition to rejoin the order. This just shows that the templars are still mage haters and why I support the mages.

Wow, good job stating false stuff. First, it's no diffrentt hen the mages causing a scene at Haven if you have them so don't act liek only the Templars cause a scene. First no reasonable templars are still at Redoubt? False, Ser Barris is very reasonable and helps protect mages from mobs and the war, even protecting a mage whi was branded a blood mage. So again false.

 

As for Cass, most templars don't join because they want to follow Cullens example of breaking their lyruim leash. Stop sprinkling your bias into facts.

[Mr.House]

Always mages. The Inquisition already has some reasonable templars among its ranks and I wouldn't trust anyone who is still loyal to the templar order after the conclave.

Yet you trust a mage who sold her own people into slavery *claps*

[Mr.House]

The purge and the armed resistance that made it necessary didn't even occur until the Inquisitor arrived in Therinfal after gathering support from the noble families.

The purge always happens, if not we would have encountered Barris as a red templar.

[Happymeal25]

I don't like either side, because they're both wrong. Mages sure cry about being repressed too long and start a war, despite the dangers of being a mage and the blood magic they choose to dabble in. Templars believe in their own zealot ways about the repression thus both are flawed and kill millions in their own selfish war. Thus, both need to step back and think for a long bit instead. Yet that won't happen.

[The Baconer]

The purge always happens, if not we would have encountered Barris as a red templar.

 

One could assume.

[draken-heart]

Also, I found it funny that if Cassandra becomes divine where she reforms the templars to try and protect mages and the innocent, very few templars rejoin the order yet if Vivienne becomes divine where she doesn't change the templars, most templars leave the inquisition to rejoin the order. This just shows that the templars are still mage haters and why I support the mages.

 

Actually, Vivienne gives the Mages more freedoms. This means nothing to the point, as the Templars still rejoin, but not because "hate mages;"

[raging_monkey]

I don't like either side, because they're both wrong. Mages sure cry about being repressed too long and start a war, despite the dangers of being a mage and the blood magic they choose to dabble in. Templars believe in their own zealot ways about the repression thus both are flawed and kill millions in their own selfish war. Thus, both need to step back and think for a long bit instead. Yet that won't happen.

funny how this nuetral thought process goes unheeded...

[dragonflight288]

He's crazy. Of course it doesn't make sense.

 

Hence why I said in an earlier post that we can feel sorrier for the templars rank and file, but the mages leaders, meaning Fiona, have better and far more understandable reasons, even though I strongly disagree with the course of action taken, I get it. 

 

My first, and so far only complete playthrough, I sided with the mages mainly because I wanted to get Tevinter out of Ferelden. 

[Corbinus]

From the perspective of the character:

 

On one hand I have an ******* Lord-Seeker who thinks I am nothing and is on his very own power-trip to save the world.

 

On the other hand, a group of mages are about to join an  evil empire with slavery and blood magic, which may or may not be responsible for the Breach and Divine's death. Oh, and their leader can time travel  and wants to meet and kill me.

 

From my perspective:

 

It's kinda ironic that templars who supposed to protect people from abominations, are going to become them instead. Also, mages have Fiona, importand book character and Alister's mother. Templars don't even have Evangeline.

 

Also trip to bad future - epic! Ending with Leliana - epic!  Fighting Envy inside the mind was cool too... but not that cool.

 

So yeah, mages all the way. I made a save for templars though, to see what changes.

[Teshayel]

To me it made more sense to risk an alliance with the mages, since their power was more likely to close the giant hole in the sky than the Templars'. I chose to accept them as equals, as a show of good faith - hoping that if they get a chance, they'd live up to expectations. What I do not understand is why we did not get to judge Fiona as well. She should have been right there with Alexius. If this game will ever be modded, I'd like a "Punch Fiona in the Face" mod...

[Precursor Meta]

I joined the templars. It just felt right. I don't really feel bad for the mages. It's like they brought this upon themselves.

[MisterJB]

And? The Templars at Therinfal were themselves part of a rebellion, following an outspoken lunatic by their own accord. What's your point?

That the mages who remain with Fiona are specifically those who not only wish to fight a war but also the ones who have no issues aligning with Tevinter. Those who did went with Vivienne. Meaning, we're not accusing an entire population based on the actions of a few (like you implied). The exception being any children.

 

 

 

The Baconer, on 09 Dec 2014 - 7:40 PM, said:

 

You're saying this based off of what? In the alternate timeline, Fiona herself was imprisoned for her disobedience along with your companions, and she's the last person one would ever expect to do so.

 

 

Apart from Fiona and Connor, we can speak with three other mages in Redcliff. Out of those three, only one did not join the Venatori.

Where is the indication the reason Fiona was imprisoned was for disobedience? As far as we know, maybe she tried to gain favor in the eyes of Corypheus by undermining Alexius and he shoved her in there. There are any number of reasons why she was imprisoned.

 

 

If there is some letter or dialogue option that tell us it was for disobedience, I didn't see it.