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[Br3admax]

Rebel Templar Extremists that ignored their orders and didn't go to Val Royeaux. 

Just like how Apostate Mage Extremists did the same thing, but with Redcliffe?

 

Guess we should just nuke Thedas and start over then. Deserters might happen otherwise. 

[raging_monkey]

Or that I can sit a cup on...

find one yeah? Its would be a glorious sight

[EmperorSahlertz]

LOL. Would you like some ass with those umptions?

Well, TECHNICALLY speaking, it is also an assumption that the Qunari, Elves and Dwarves are included, since it isn't specified either way..

[thesuperdarkone2]

LOL. Would you like some ass with those umptions?

Leliana's ending outright says she makes the chantry open to other races while Cass' ending doesn't say anything about it. Cass doesn't seem the one to completely change the chantry like that. She'd likely try to make the chantry more appealing to other races but wouldn't allow other races to enter the chantry as she doesn't want to rock the boat too much.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I know, but I never made the claim. I only stated Cassandra's views on race and that her reign, depending on choices, lead to a golden age. I'm hoping elves, dwarves, and qunari fall within that golden age. And declaring that they're not included is an assumption.

Would you still consider it a golden age if other races weren't included in the chantry?

[Br3admax]

Obviously you haven't seen Thedas. Where a man digging a stump with a shovel will be killed by passing, ungoverned Templars because "It could have been a staff",

I guess you haven't seen Ferelden, which is where we actually see these small break off groups, because mages were lighting people on fire and stealing their homes. Because reasons. But that's okay, because mages don't have a standard.

 

A few dozen mages - big faces, might I add, of the "Mage Rebellion", openly joining Tevinter? I'd say that's a pretty big deal. Especially when it's the Person who first called the vote *For* The rebellion. 

 Not when it's not even half the mages in Thedas. Nobody cares about the loyal mages. They don't even talk about them.

 

 

Not to mention, people in Thedas apparently don't care if *Most* or even *Some* mages didn't do anything wrong. A mage is all mages, An Elf if all elves etc. etc.

I remember that from an in game source. And by that, I mean you just made it up and said it here because there's really nonsensical argument to make from this with actual in game dialogue. 

 

Like many people point out, Anders started the War with Kirkwall Chantry boom-boom. He was a Grey Warden, an Abomination, and not even a part of the Circle there. On most people's lists, he was a wanted man. Did people care? A *Mage* Blew up a Chantry, that's all that matters.

That's not even why the war started, and Anders came from one of the most lax circles in Thedas. That's why people freaked out, they thought mages had too much freedoms, Anders already being captured six previous times. Instead of proving them wrong, the some leaders of the mages thought this was their chance to get out the system, the one everyone has to live it. Templars in turned starting cracking down more. 

[Xilizhra]

I know, but I never made the claim. I only stated Cassandra's views on race and that her reign depending on choices lead to a golden age. I'm hoping elves, dwarves, and qunari fall within that golden age.

I seriously doubt we'll see Leliana's reforms fall apart in this series. She's radical, but that's what's necessary right now, and it's also something that can be accepted within all these events. Especially if it's light Leliana who actually persuades everyone involved to agree with her.

[GipsyDangeresque]

Preferable to what alternative, dying? I like how casually you put there are dangers, as if it's something we can just gloss over. Sure, tell the cult powerful enough to throw the Arl out of his own fief (and who claim ownership of you) that you'd like to leave. Maybe if you're lucky they'd give you the chance to try and make it past the rift parked outside the gates.

 

And you know what? There were still mages at Redcliffe who chose this alternative, but against all reason you'd rather pretend they didn't exist.

 

 

 

The Templars did know they were following a maniac who openly betrayed the mandate of his own order and the Templars. Also, given multiple codices on the subject I refuse to believe nobody at Therinfal knew what Red Lyrium was.

 

 

 

The Elven mage refused to renounce his faith in Andraste and the Maker. There's literally nobody in there who did not reject the will of Corypheus.

 

You know, I do have a little trouble empathizing with any Templar that didn't leave their order after hearing how their "Lord-Seeker" (impersonation, but still they'd have THOUGHT it was him) treated the Chantry sisters in Val Royeaux. Literally beat them and walked away.

 

 

I got the impression that the Mages at least extended their hand to work with the Inquisition (but then time-travel overwrote that and enslaved them to Tevinter because bullshit) while the Templars actively rejected my extended hand when I tried to reason with the "Lord-Seeker" in Val Royeaux.

 

That's as much of a reason as any to choose what I chose. One group's leader wanted to help me with the breach and then was suddenly tricked into a deal with crazy cultists pretending to be nice saviors. The other group's leader basically ******-slapped a Sister in public and then said "We're too good for you!"

 

In the end, both are victims of extreme gullibility. Alexius SOUNDS like a good guy on paper with what he's saying, but anybody with half a brain should have known there was a Darth Vader backstab coming. And Red lyrium sure seems useful and powerful, but anybody with half a brain should have known it was a dumb idea after hearing the rumors about Meredith in Kirkwall.

 

Unfortunately, you don't get to see any reasonable Templars that are still in their order until you actually commit your power and decision. All of the good ones you meet are... ex-Templar like Cullen, already joined the Inquisition.

 

And then the Gray Wardens make the same kind of desperate, dumb decisions too. Everybody's making bad choices in Inquisition, it's up to you to make them see what's not completely stupid.

 

I really wish you could build up MORE power and approach both factions, but I understand why from a gameplay perspective they wanted a choice with actual repercussions...

[Br3admax]

Depends on how Chantry going folk treat other races. And that's her main objective, reforming the Chantry specifically. Leliana wants to change everything too fast. Vivienne wants things to go back to the way they were even if she fails somewhat. Cassandra wants the Chantry to be an altruistic entity and not a political one.

And in the end none will matter, because BioWare will handwave it or leave Southern Thedas. Probably both. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I doubt children being taken away from their parents would occur in Leliana's rule. Wynne's dialogue about how her child was taken away from her pretty much cemented why I will never side with the templars. I can never justify taking away someone's child right from their arms and essentially telling them they will never see their child again and their child will never see them either.

[thesuperdarkone2]

And in the end none will matter, because BioWare will handwave it or leave Southern Thedas. Probably both. 

Most likely it will be mentioned in ambient dialogue since I think the devs said they had enough of southern Thedas and that they'd like to explore the North so we will likely go to Tevinter in the next game since the different chantry choices wouldn't have as much of an effect there as in other places. Guess that's why Leliana's changes won't be undone in the next game. Man, people who say her reforms will fail will look foolish if the next game reveals that not only that it didn't fail, but that it is working.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Another good reason to always side with the Templars: it is the only way to redeem Calpernia.

[Xilizhra]

Another good reason to always side with the Templars: it is the only way to redeem Calpernia.

Calpernia will survive and quite possibly find redemption in another way if you side with the mages.

[herkles]

Best way of viewing the epilogues are as things that could be not things that will be.

I am curious if the pro mages would like a mageocracy? Perhaps if say it didn't have blood magic and slavery

[Hellion Rex]

And in the end none will matter, because BioWare will handwave it or leave Southern Thedas. Probably both. 

I'm kinda glad. I wanna see the North now anyways.

[Br3admax]

Good riddance. The Templars are cool when they're actually doing what they're supposed to, but I've had enough of anti-mage paranoia. They're worse than the rabble-rousers.

Anit-mage paranoia isn't going to go away just because you leave Southern Thedas. And it's not like Dorian paints the prettiest picture of Tevinter anyway. 

[Xilizhra]

Best way of viewing the epilogues are as things that could be not things that will be.

I am curious if the pro mages would like a mageocracy? Perhaps if say it didn't have blood magic and slavery

I wouldn't advocate for it, but I wouldn't consider it worse than any other sort of blood-based government, such that literally every nation in Thedas has.

 

 

I'm kinda glad. I wanna see the North now anyways.

Indeed. Specifically Tevinter. I'd rather not hop between nations again; we didn't get to see much of either in Inquisition (Val Royeaux was pathetic compared to Denerim and Kirkwall).

[AresKeith]

I'm kinda glad. I wanna see the North now anyways.

 

Cue GoT references