1029 réponses à ce sujet

[GipsyDangeresque]

How the hell do you expect them to have prevented the ordeal?

Templars don't have the track records of every child ever born in Thedas.

 

 

Well, they were kind of busy preventing Uldred and his demon army from ravaging the countryside in the middle of a civil war and Blight.

 

How many civillians did Uldred kill? Zero.

It's not perfect but it's better than having one Abomination that escaped their grasp causing damage rather than hundreds.

 

And of course, laws don't help much if mages are the ones passing them. How many generations until they took power? Two? Three?

 

 

. Because the witless wonder that is Isolde didn't use the system in place

 

 

Do you understand my point, then? They could not prevent that situation. They can never prevent that situaiton. The Circle system is not an answer to this situation, so why would you use that situation as justification for a "solution" that ISN'T a solution at all! But perhaps if Mages were free, then Isolde would NOT have been so scared to get her son Connor the proper training?

 

And then, Mage freedom would have saved a hundred lives.

[MisterJB]

The one paragraph long epilogue suddenly takes precedence over everything else in canon?

[thesuperdarkone2]

So apparently if you aren't a noble, you automatically hate mages. Gee, thanks for that assumption.

[raging_monkey]

* begins burning both promage/templar strawmen* this should help

[myahele]

There's surpringly no abominations in game

[Steelcan]

The system would have worked had Isolde taken advantage of it. They would have prevented it if Isolde wasn't blessed with an IQ similar to a rock

[thesuperdarkone2]

Man I wonder the reaction if it turns out the independent circles and Divine Leliana's reign not only don't turn out to be bad, but wind up being the best options. The tears of pro-templars everywhere would keep me young forever.

[GipsyDangeresque]

The one paragraph long epilogue suddenly takes precedence over everything else in canon?

 

No, it supplements it. We only get snap-shot instances of Mages being abused for their abilities. Vivienne, Wynne, and that one former Dalish elf whom researches creatures in Haven for you.

 

But on the whole, the majority deal fine. And for those specific cases, people will need to be punished for their actions. The world of Thedas needs to know that there are dire consequences for persecuting somebody JUST because of their magic. And one day soon, things will be more civilized then you think they always will be.

[Br3admax]

So apparently if you aren't a noble, you automatically hate mages. Gee, thanks for that assumption.

Considering the first thing some random tavern girl does is say you've come to teach everyone not to hate mages, and pretty much everyone hates mages throughout the game, yeah. 

[GipsyDangeresque]

The system would have worked had Isolde taken advantage of it. They would have prevented it if Isolde wasn't blessed with an IQ similar to a rock

 

You cannot rely on Isolde, or any mother, to have "an IQ above a rock", when it comes to their children.

 

Only be removing the climate of fear of imprisonment can we remove this obstacle.

[thesuperdarkone2]

There's surpringly no abominations in game

Funny given how I've heard arguments that if mages are given freedom, abominations are inevitable. Looks like that is just paranoia.

[MisterJB]

Do you understand my point, then? They could not prevent that situation. They can never prevent that situaiton. The Circle system is not an answer to this situation, so why would you use that situation as justification for a "solution" that ISN'T a solution at all! But perhaps if Mages were free, then Isolde would NOT have been so scared to get her son Connor the proper training?

 

And then, Mage freedom would have saved a hundred lives.

 

If there were Mage freedom, there wouldn't even be a Redcliff to begin with. There would be a Redvantus or something similarly named.

Because, hey, the very first place that the rebel mages were given refuge in was imediatelly sold to the Imperium.

 

It is not a solution only if you think that it must have a zero% rate of casualty. However, if you realize that for every Connor that slips through the cracks, there are a hundred Uldreds being kept safely away, you'll see that it is sucessful.
 

[raging_monkey]

There's surpringly no abominations in game

considering what DA2 kinda said f-u to their. Own lore... maybe they are extinct XD

[AresKeith]

There's surpringly no abominations in game

 

Guess demons were too busy invading

 

 

Funny given how I've heard arguments that if mages are given freedom, abominations are inevitable. Looks like that is just paranoia.

 

You realize they said in game and not the ending right?

[MisterJB]

No, it supplements it. We only get snap-shot instances of Mages being abused for their abilities. Vivienne, Wynne, and that one former Dalish elf whom researches creatures in Haven for you.

 

But on the whole, the majority deal fine. And for those specific cases, people will need to be punished for their actions. The world of Thedas needs to know that there are dire consequences for persecuting somebody JUST because of their magic. And one day soon, things will be more civilized then you think they always will be.

Right.

In Asunder, Wynne's group was in a tavern for an hour before a mob tried to lynch them. Every single person in the pub tried to kill them. Regular people.

And now, after the Breach and after the Mage Rebellion there is "wide acceptance."?

[Sir DeLoria]

1) That's not the way it plays out in Divine Leliana's epilogue, now is it? Do you have any proof that can negate canonical events? You allow freedom, and nothing explodes. You allow the Mages to fully ally themselves with the Inquisition and place no Templar watchers. No abominations tear apart your camps.

Lol, we'll see how that works in the long run...
 

2) Because they do. Because the divine told them to. Because other free mages would rise up against that blood-mage. Because the Inquisition would roll in and help them. Or the Seekers of Truth, the ex-Templars. The impetus to not be insane and break the law and kill people is kind of on every single person, non-mage and mage.

This is a really cute scenario, but it's very unlikely. A brief little revolution can't erase beliefs, superstitions and fears millenia old. Of course everyone can kill, but mages are potentially a walking WMD.
 

3) They wouldn't. They'd send for an experienced tutor from a local College of Magi, I'd expect. Or, just as with the circle system, they would have the CHOICE to send them to live there, just as with the circles. But they would not be COMPELLED to, it would be of their own free will that they send their child to grow up in that environment.

Except that it wouldn't work. Sending a tutor to every single mage child, ensuring it hasn't suffered any bad inffluence and making sure it's strong enough to not get posessed outside of the Circle would be impossible. And what if the parents object a la Isolde and hundreds of people die? Your proposal is too idealistic to actually work and quite unnecessary on top of it.

[GipsyDangeresque]

If there were Mage freedom, there wouldn't even be a Redcliff to begin with. There would be a Redvantus or something similarly named.

Because, hey, the very first place that the rebel mages were given refuge in was imediatelly sold to the Imperium.

 

It is not a solution only if you think that it must have a zero% rate of casualty. However, if you realize that for every Connor that slips through the cracks, there are a hundred Uldreds being kept safely away, you'll see that it is sucessful.
 

 

Funny that you jump to the hyberbole that all free mages will inevitably create a Mageocracy and create a new Imperium. Fenris was quite close minded, just like you. On the contrary, good Mages would know to take that example as a cautionary tale, just as Dorian explains.

 

Funny that you would bring up Uldred.

 

It is this same Circle system and climate of fear that encouraged and created Uldred. If there was Mage freedom, Uldred would not seek power for the sake of liberation and never become an abomination.

 

The harrowings also pervert the fade and turn spirits into demons, just as Solas has mentioned. It's all one self-fulfilling prophecy that needs to be broken.

[myahele]

In crestwood near the pier you see a dead mage with a sword on his chest. When you read his journal he says how he wanted to help the villagers deal with their undead problem instead of moving out. Last entry was that he'll introduce himself to them.

I assume when he mentioned he was a mage they chased and killed him

[Sir DeLoria]

So apparently if you aren't a noble, you automatically hate mages. Gee, thanks for that assumption.

Likely.

Why would anyone with no insight into magic feel sympathetic towards them?

[Steelcan]

Funny given how I've heard arguments that if mages are given freedom, abominations are inevitable. Looks like that is just paranoia.

no instead they went to Tevinter....


Honestly I'm not sure which is worse

[herkles]

Right.

In Asunder, Wynne's group was in a tavern for an hour before a mob tried to lynch them. Every single person in the pub tried to kill them. Regular people.

And now, after the Breach and after the Mage Rebellion there is "wide acceptance."?

of course with lelainna's plot armor she says "PEACE EVERYONE" and everyone goes "alright, we will never fight again. mages will be happy and all our prejducies and hatred is now gone." and thus overnight everything became perfect

[thesuperdarkone2]

Likely.

Why would anyone with no insight into magic feel sympathetic towards them?

Funny how the Divine Leliana mage ending says that mages become universally accepted throughout Thedas. Seems like stopping the breach pretty much supercedes bigotry

[Sir DeLoria]

You cannot rely on Isolde, or any mother, to have "an IQ above a rock", when it comes to their children.

Only be removing the climate of fear of imprisonment can we remove this obstacle.

Life in Fereldan's Circle looked about a million times better than life on some farm in Lothering. It might be imprisonment, but would you rather be forced to live in a four star hotel or live free in a slum?