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[GipsyDangeresque]

They weren't trapped though. They could have joined Vivienne, and they would have been perfectly safe.

 

You don't know the circumstances that caused those groups to become separated. Maybe only some escaped a particularly narrow and perilous situation, and others had their path blocked and received no choice but to follow those who could protect them? We've really got no clue what happened during the years of the Mage rebellion. Only that plenty of Mages with very different viewpoints ranging across every fraternity ended up in Redcliffe.

[raging_monkey]

Choosing to be tranquil is fine. I don't think Mage freedom rules out that option?

but tranqing is castration... wouldnt death be preferable

[MisterJB]

I'm gonna borrow a bit from Dean the Young's argument here

 

The mage rebellion also doubles as a sort of referendum on whether mages can be trusted to look after themselves outside of Chantry support while under pressure.  The fact that they turned to the living embodiment of why the Circles exist for support proves that they cannot be trusted to look after themselves with no oversight.

 

"But they were desperate"

 

Then they shouldn't have gone to Tevinter, appealing to the local monarchy would have been better suited, Ferelden may be weakened but I'm sure they can hold off fractious branches of the templars.  Instead they betrayed that trust and joined up with the sworn enemy of all southern Thedas

 

Honestly, what could they possibly have been thinking?

First of all, it is very unlikely the Templars were about to attack given how we are told they were all summoned to Val-Royeaux.

However, given the fact that summon came from Envy, it's possible that they were recalled precisely because the mages could now be manipulated by Alexius.

 

So, let's go with "The Templars were going to attack."

 

Ok, if they are about to attack a Ferelden city to reach people under Ferelden protection, it is the job of the Ferelden army to fight them.

This is the opportunity to show Fereldans how the Templars don't care who stands between them and the mages and that the mages will fight to defend the Redcliff and its people after they graciously granted them refuge.

Instead, they invite Tevinter, proving the Templars were right all along and forcing Alistair to march with the army, yes, but to kick the mages out when he could have been marching to deal with their problema, the Templars.

 

Does Fiona have cheese for brains or something?
 

[The Baconer]

I'm gonna borrow a bit from Dean the Young's argument here

 

The mage rebellion also doubles as a sort of referendum on whether mages can be trusted to look after themselves outside of Chantry support while under pressure.  The fact that they turned to the living embodiment of why the Circles exist for support proves that they cannot be trusted to look after themselves with no oversight.

 

Oh yeah, I agree.

 

 

Then they shouldn't have gone to Tevinter, appealing to the local monarchy would have been better suited, Ferelden may be weakened but I'm sure they can hold off fractious branches of the templars.  Instead they betrayed that trust and joined up with the sworn enemy of all southern Thedas

 

But at the same time, they didn't "go to" Tevinter. Alexius used his time powers to ride in ahead of a fake (or real?) Templar attack.

 

 

They weren't trapped though. They could have joined Vivienne, and they would have been perfectly safe.

 

By the time Alexius and the Venatori spontaneously warped in, they were not safe. Their position of course worsened when Fiona betrayed them.

 

Or were they supposed to just expect that a Tevinter host would appear in southern Fereldan, and preemptively hike their asses over to Monstimmard?

[GipsyDangeresque]

but tranqing is castration... wouldnt death be preferable

 

Well, they can choose death/suicide too, I suppose. Although hopefully they could be talked out of it, talked down from that ledge. Maybe a new mentor could aid them in overcoming personal obstacles in magical training. I'm sure there would be at least nine or ten more Ketojans born, eventually. Somebody that just hates and fears everything that they are. It'd be pretty sad, though.

 

I find it interesting that a free city-Elven mage child+parents could seek out a Dalish clan to raise their child, if they so wished and the stars aligned. Freedom presents so many opportunities for storytelling.

[errantknight]

A smart mage had only to take off the damn robe, throw away the staff and go off the the Becillian forest to work as a woodcutter. Running around in a group like insane lemmings was remarkably dumb.

[Steelcan]

A smart mage had only to take off the damn robe, throw away the staff and go off the the Becillian forest to work as a woodcutter. Running around in a group like insane lemmings was remarkably dumb.

said woodcutter will still be plagued by demons and vulnerable to possession though

[thesuperdarkone2]

A smart mage had only to take off the damn robe, throw away the staff and go off the the Becillian forest to work as a woodcutter. Running around in a group like insane lemmings was remarkably dumb.

Ser Bryant implies that Templars are able to sense mages though given that sidequest where the templars killed someone because they thought a gardening tool was a staff, I doubt they'd be safe even then.

[Lady Artifice]

tranquility isn't an atrocity, hell some mages request it.

 

It has certainly been mishandled, as have the Annulments, but having no way counter mages who cannot control their powers, or who desire to lose them is a worse alternative

 

Is the fact that some people are willing to do a thing to themselves good enough evidence that it isn't abhorrent?

 

People commit suicide and self-immolate too, sometimes for reasons that seem completely justified, if not righteous, to them...it gets murky and complicated.

 

While there are Mages who really just can't handle resisting demonic possession, how can it be certain that's the case with any of them when you have mages like the girl in the mage origin who felt so much self hatred for just having magic that tranquillity seemed like a dream come true to her?

 

Also, a lot of those mages who opt for tranquillity are operating under the assumption that it's a peaceful state to live in. We now know it isn't that simple. 

[GipsyDangeresque]

A smart mage had only to take off the damn robe, throw away the staff and go off the the Becillian forest to work as a woodcutter. Running around in a group like insane lemmings was remarkably dumb.

 

You say that now, but if you think about it...

 

But I wonder how many former apostates did just that. What if Fiona's Group + the few mages that escaped directly to the Inquisition + Vivienne's group + Mages that ran to join the Grey Wardens only accounts for... say... 50% of the mage population that was previously held inside the circles?

 

We don't really know, do we? I recall a War Table mission in which I recalled some Mage Rebels that were in hiding across southern Ferelden, after rescuing Fiona's bunch. They were pleased to reunite with the rest of the group and aid the Inquisition.

[raging_monkey]

A smart mage had only to take off the damn robe, throw away the staff and go off the the Becillian forest to work as a woodcutter. Running around in a group like insane lemmings was remarkably dumb.

strength in numbers

[errantknight]

You say that now, but if you think about it...

 

But I wonder how many former apostates did just that. What if Fiona's Group + the few mages that escaped directly to the Inquisition + Vivienne's group + Mages that ran to join the Grey Wardens only accounts for... say... 50% of the mage population that was previously held inside the circles?

 

We don't really know, do we? I recall a War Table mission in which I recalled some Mage Rebels that were in hiding across southern Ferelden, after rescuing Fiona's bunch. They were pleased to reunite with the rest of the group and aid the Inquisition.

True, we don't really know. I was going on the hundred crazy mages outside Redcliffe, but that's not so many. And what was sais earlier about templars sensing them is likely true, although I'm not sure that they have time for that sort of thing right now. The prey to demons, well, that's the case where ever they are.. But yeah there could be a lot of mages doing things we don't know about.

[errantknight]

strength in numbers

I still think they have a better shot at living by hiding than by taking on templars. Of course, if they'd known about the inquisition at the time, might have been an option. The sad thing is, all they would have had to do would be go to denerim and appeal to their ruler/s. Hmm, probably excepting the case where Anora rules alone or with an absent warden.

[Xilizhra]

Honestly, what could they possibly have been thinking?

First of all, it is very unlikely the Templars were about to attack given how we are told they were all summoned to Val-Royeaux.

However, given the fact that summon came from Envy, it's possible that they were recalled precisely because the mages could now be manipulated by Alexius.

 

So, let's go with "The Templars were going to attack."

 

Ok, if they are about to attack a Ferelden city to reach people under Ferelden protection, it is the job of the Ferelden army to fight them.

This is the opportunity to show Fereldans how the Templars don't care who stands between them and the mages and that the mages will fight to defend the Redcliff and its people after they graciously granted them refuge.

Instead, they invite Tevinter, proving the Templars were right all along and forcing Alistair to march with the army, yes, but to kick the mages out when he could have been marching to deal with their problema, the Templars.

 

Does Fiona have cheese for brains or something?
 

One would think that it would be the job of the Fereldan army to, you know, control the rampaging apostates and templars in the Hinterlands in general... assuming, of course, that it had any presence in the Hinterlands at all. Which it fairly obviously does not; the only organized military there is the Inquisition. Where Ferelden's army is, exactly, is unknown, but it certainly wasn't anywhere close enough to Redcliffe to protect it from a templar attack.

[raging_monkey]

I still think they have a better shot at living by hiding than by taking on templars. Of course, if they'd known about the inquisition at the time, might have been an option. The sad thing is, all they would have had to do would be go to denerim and appeal to their ruler/s. Hmm, probably excepting the case where Anora rules alone or with an absent warden.

we will never know

[Steelcan]

One would think that it would be the job of the Fereldan army to, you know, control the rampaging apostates and templars in the Hinterlands in general... assuming, of course, that it had any presence in the Hinterlands at all. Which it fairly obviously does not; the only organized military there is the Inquisition. Where Ferelden's army is, exactly, is unknown, but it certainly wasn't anywhere close enough to Redcliffe to protect it from a templar attack.

Which is why Fiona should have appealed to them to send in the army.  I imagine the actual Ferelden army is mostly a militia with a small core of professionals, they likely aren't called up at this time across the nation

[Xilizhra]

Which is why Fiona should have appealed to them to send in the army.  I imagine the actual Ferelden army is mostly a militia with a small core of professionals, they likely aren't called up at this time across the nation

It was apparently quicker and safer for Fiona to go from Redcliffe to Val Royeaux and back again to contact the Inquisition for help than to alert the Fereldan army. Either Alexius did something crazy like blood magic-nudge Fiona into believing there was a templar army right outside Redcliffe when he showed up with his time travel, or the Fereldan army was just going to be useless for whatever reason.

[Steelcan]

It was apparently quicker and safer for Fiona to go from Redcliffe to Val Royeaux and back again to contact the Inquisition for help than to alert the Fereldan army. Either Alexius did something crazy like blood magic-nudge Fiona into believing there was a templar army right outside Redcliffe when he showed up with his time travel, or the Fereldan army was just going to be useless for whatever reason.

also possible, but it seems to me that Fiona didn't really try, she never says that the Ferelden army is unavailable or unwilling to help so we can assume she is either unaware of its status or hasn't bothered seeking its aid

[Xilizhra]

also possible, but it seems to me that Fiona didn't really try, she never says that the Ferelden army is unavailable or unwilling to help so we can assume she is either unaware of its status or hasn't bothered seeking its aid

Well, Arl Teagan hasn't done a damn thing to protect any of the other lands that it's his feudal obligation to; why should Fiona expect any different for her people?

[Steelcan]

Well, Arl Teagan hasn't done a damn thing to protect any of the other lands that it's his feudal obligation to; why should Fiona expect any different for her people?

he has been evicted...so....

[The Baconer]

also possible, but it seems to me that Fiona didn't really try, she never says that the Ferelden army is unavailable or unwilling to help so we can assume she is either unaware of its status or hasn't bothered seeking its aid

 

Dorian said that Alexius re-arranged time in order to arrive just after the destruction of the Conclave. So it's possible that the Templar attack and the following arrival of the Venatori caught her off-guard before she could send word to the throne.

 

It's also possible that she did manage to send word to the throne, because its forces literally show up right behind you when you enter Redcliffe castle (since time shenanigans means the issue is resolved within about 2 minutes on the main timeline). I find this a bit perplexing because it raises the question of what specifically happens in Redcliffe if you go to Therinfal. Did the Venatori defeat the royal forces sent to Redcliffe, or somehow manage to slip away before their arrival?

[Milan92]

Well, Arl Teagan hasn't done a damn thing to protect any of the other lands that it's his feudal obligation to; why should Fiona expect any different for her people?

Kinda hard to do that considering they threw him out.

We dont know where Teagan is during the game.

[Steelcan]

I find this a bit perplexing because it raises the question of what specifically happens in Redcliffe if you go to Therinfal. Did the Venatori defeat the royal forces sent to Redcliffe, or somehow manage to slip away before their arrival?

They just up and leave suddenly according to Dorian

[herkles]

Kinda hard to do that considering they threw him out.

We dont know where Teagan is during the game.

I like to imagine that teagan went right away to the capital to gather the army. It is why shortly after you deal with alexius that the army with the monarch(s) arrive.