154 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

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So, you do not trust other people and do not wish to grant them their freedom?

If you were a mage, would you like your freedom?

I try to live by the rule that says: Treat others as you want them to treat you.

Put your self in the position of a mage.

Please, let's not turn this into another Templars vs mages thread.

Suffice it to say, I agree with Vivienne on the topic. Leliana lets the mages go with nothing to keep them in line except a promise that they won't kill anyone.

I would make her Divine were she not a mage.

[Fardreamer]

Leliana (softened) gets this epilogue slide:

 

"One month after the defeat of Corypheus, the Chantry names Leliana as successor to the Sunburst Throne."

"Given the name Divine Victoria, she first declares an end to the Circle of Magi; the mages will now govern themselves."

"She opens the priesthood to other races, declares support for the Inquisition, and rededicates the Chantry to the principle of charity."

"Divine Victoria is controversial from the start, several new sects arise, resisting her reforms and declaring her rule a threat to the faith."

"She meets with their leaders, urging unity. Miraculously her words take root, and - for now - the Chantry remains strong."

 

"The Inquisition's mages - the former rebels led by Grand Enchanter Fiona - are left with a choice."

"When Leliana disbands the Circles, they leave the Inquisition and reform the College of Enchanters as a new order." "The College, they say will allow mages of the south to gather in peace and seek new solutions to age-old problems." "For the moment, it appears to be working - mages are enjoying unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas."

 

This is THE single best out-come for peace and for the mages...

[MisterJB]

You do know that a softened Leliana is THE only option for Divine that involves peace with no blood-shed, right? 

Yes, Leliana's words were so compelling that she convinced everyone to let go of a thousand years of bad blood and conflicts. Right after the Breach, Redcliff, Rebellion and Venatori.

Who wrote this?

[_Motoki_]

You do know that a softened Leliana is THE only option for Divine that involves peace with no blood-shed, right? 

 

Uh, no. I got Cass and it said some people initially opposed her but the Inquisitor mediated talks with them and an agreement was reached.

 

https://www.youtube....Gg4cy43b0#t=141

[Fardreamer]

Uh, no. I got Cass and it said some people initially opposed her but the Inquisitor mediated talks with them and an agreement was reached.

 

https://www.youtube....Gg4cy43b0#t=141

 

Yeah, but unless you sided with the Templars you get this:

 

"The Inquisition's mages - the former rebels led by Grand Enchanter Fiona - are left with a choice."

"In the end, they refuse Cassandra's invitation to rejoin the Circle of Magi and instead reform the College of Enchanters as a new order." "The College, they say will allow mages of the south to gather in peace and seek new solutions to age-old problems." "From the beginning, the College and the Circle have clashed - and some fear it will lead to a new war of the mages upon themselves."

 

So, in terms of overall peace... Leliana is still the best.

[Random Spirit.]

Yes, Leliana's words were so compelling that she convinced everyone to let go of a thousand years of bad blood and conflicts. Right after the Breach, Redcliff, Rebellion and Venatori.

Who wrote this?

 

It's a longshot to be sure, but given that she IS elected, she might have been successful in persuading them to try out a new path considering the alternatives was continued conflict and that the old path resulted in the rebellion.
 

[9TailsFox]

Yes, Leliana's words were so compelling that she convinced everyone to let go of a thousand years of bad blood and conflicts. Right after the Breach, Redcliff, Rebellion and Venatori.

Who wrote this?

You agree with Leliana or you get stabbed.

[ashwind]

It's a longshot to be sure, but given that she IS elected, she might have been successful in persuading them to try out a new path considering the alternatives was continued conflict and that the old path resulted in the rebellion.
 

 

I doubt Leliana "persuaded" anyone with "words".  More like she either threaten or blackmail everyone into submission.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, but unless you sided with the Templars you get this:

 

"The Inquisition's mages - the former rebels led by Grand Enchanter Fiona - are left with a choice."

"In the end, they refuse Cassandra's invitation to rejoin the Circle of Magi and instead reform the College of Enchanters as a new order." "The College, they say will allow mages of the south to gather in peace and seek new solutions to age-old problems." "From the beginning, the College and the Circle have clashed - and some fear it will lead to a new war of the mages upon themselves."

 

So, in terms of overall peace... Leliana is still the best.

I believe that what you said was that Leliana is THE only one who can give peace.

However, depending upon certain factors, such as siding with the Templars, Cassandra provides just as much peace.

[Fardreamer]

I believe that what you said was that Leliana is THE only one who can give peace.

However, depending upon certain factors, such as siding with the Templars, Cassandra provides just as much peace.

 

Yeah, there's peace if you side with the Templars and have Cassandra as Divine... BUT Leliana's slide for siding with the Templars is also better than Cassandra's.  In my opinion if you want a good outcome, Leliana should be Divine and Cassandra should be the Lord Seeker.  They're pretty much equals in power anyways.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, there's peace if you side with the Templars and have Cassandra as Divine... BUT Leliana's slide for siding with the Templars is also better than Cassandra's.  In my opinion if you want a good outcome, Leliana should be Divine and Cassandra should be the Lord Seeker.  They're pretty much equals in power anyways.

Now, that is something entirely diferent.

You wish to achieve certain things and thus you prefer Leliana as Divine because she brings them about. That is fair. I don't agree with you but everyone has an opinion.

 

However, if the criteria we use is "peace" as in "the absence of violence" then Cassandra is just as capable of creating peace as Divine.

[Wulfram]

I'd bet all of their solutions will have fallen apart in no more than 2 games time.  Which is convenient from a writing perspective, but probably also realistic.

 

If any end up as the best long term solution I'd bet on Cassandra, because Bioware's writers bias in the mage/templar stuff seems to be towards "moderates".

[thesuperdarkone2]

Funny how Cass' divine ending has her need the Inquisitor's help to make peace with rival sects but has to make some concessions for her small reforms yet unhardened Leliana manages to completely change the chantry yet manages to get everyone to agree with her by herself and without any concessions made.

 

Guess we know who Bioware prefers.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

You do know that a softened Leliana is THE only option for Divine that involves peace with no blood-shed, right?

Yeah, i know, is difficult to soften her without the Inquisitor looking like a naive fool tho

[MisterJB]

Funny how Cass' divine ending has her need the Inquisitor's help to make peace with rival sects but has to make some concessions for her small reforms yet unhardened Leliana manages to completely change the chantry yet manages to get everyone to agree with her by herself and without any concessions made.

 

Guess we know who Bioware prefers.

 

Are 99% of your posts just "Here's why Bioware prefers my choices over yours"?

[Mushashi7]

The dilemma with chosing a new Divine is the point in the game where you actually reflect your political stance in real life.

I find it most interesting how people make their choices - and why.

I see a clear pattern amongst the answers:

There are those who puts human charity and love to your fellow beings on top of the list.
And there are those who sees it all more technical. They want everything to be 'fashional law and order'.

Both are affraid that each seperate choice automatically rejects the other option. And maybe that is exactly what the dilemma is supposed to enlighten?
Isn't the choice of the new Divine actually the real hardcore RPG element in this game?

[Bucky]

I don't know if it really reflects real-world politics.  You sort of have to insert yourself into the world.

 

I mean, the Circles would essentially be illegal in the modern West.

[justafan]

I chose Cassandra as the new divine.  At the time of the decision, she certainly seemed like the best option, what with being for moderate reforms while still sticking to the major tenets of the faith.  That Leliana was able to successfully radicalize thousand year old doctrines so quickly and bloodlessly in one ending rather surprised me, as I expected civil strife more along the lines of what ended up being Divine Vivienne, as Bioware usually makes "good" outcomes come at some sort of price in Dragon Age games.

 

Either way though, I'm still happy with my choice.  Sure the circle and college mages have a rivalry, but at least there doesn't seem to be a major schism movement under Cassandra, which I think is more conducive to long term peace.

[ashwind]

I chose Cassandra as the new divine.  At the time of the decision, she certainly seemed like the best option, what with being for moderate reforms while still sticking to the major tenets of the faith.  That Leliana was able to successfully radicalize thousand year old doctrines so quickly and bloodlessly in one ending rather surprised me, as I expected civil strife more along the lines of what ended up being Divine Vivienne, as Bioware usually makes "good" outcomes come at some sort of price in Dragon Age games.

 

Either way though, I'm still happy with my choice.  Sure the circle and college mages have a rivalry, but at least there doesn't seem to be a major schism movement under Cassandra, which I think is more conducive to long term peace.

 

How could anyone be surprise? Vivienne is sort of a dictator, regardless of her policies, she will force it upon others and it will not end pretty.

 

Cassandra is an idealist, regardless of her intentions, things wont turn out the way she wants because she is too.... honest.

 

Leliana on the other hand is the perfect politician, subtle, calculative and maybe even cold. She will be successful regardless of her policies.

[NRieh]

 

Isn't the choice of the new Divine actually the real hardcore RPG element in this game?

No, it's not. One can't roleplay something (s)he is not even aware of. One currently has no idea which steps bring which results.

[Sugram84]

It doesn't fit her character, she's very conservative and if she is chosen she wants to give the position her 100% attention. 

well it was a Joke

[Sugram84]

OK i recommend rush to SkyHold, i mean clear redcliffe & stormcoast & rescue missing scouts (what is in new area) & continue quests for mage's or Templar's to get to SkyHold, i mean the choice, with my first char i cleared to much, i did other ares, spend more time with other stuff before getting to SkyHold, new i cant do Dorian Family quest, with my second char Elf Ranger i just did that, no option for that with my first char, also check often does ur inner circle has something new to say, some may have done like i have with my first char & if that messes up companion quest then it can mess up who u want as Divine as well, so when u get to the part where u go in redciffe chantry, when this guy send u to future cause u know why, by then be level 11-12 & ur good enough to continue that quest & get to SkyHold, this quest leads to SkyHold if u sided with mages, cause how i did some dialogue was missing cause that Waste of time (training & exploring new areas) caused some to skip, & when it started sometimes i got dialogue that was suppose to be in more beginning then new dialogue & then middle, it was a mess when comparing it to dialogue i get new, all moves forward slowly, all seems in order

 

& doing wicked eyes and wicked hearts i recommend when u are above LVL 12 & ur romance is set in stone & if no1 ur inner circle has nothing new to say, well that u should check after awry bigger mission, with none companion sometimes they have something new faster, like Josephine, just over time, but at 1 point there is nothing new until u do mane mission to trigger new dialogue to continue romance or get to the inner circle quest part, its all to avoid mess

[herkles]

lelianna is perfect. she will make the tension go away and everyone in the south will sing and hold hands together. the centuries of tensions between humans and elves and mages and templars just go away because lelianna says so.

 

While I would like that to happen it feels pretty much like a utopia/too perfect for a dark fantasy setting.

[Fardreamer]

No, it's not. One can't roleplay something (s)he is not even aware of. One currently has no idea which steps bring which results.

I'd say it's pretty clear at this point. You get several key dialogues with cass, Leliana, and Vivienne. Also we've dertermined what events support what divine too.

[Razored1313]

I sided with the templars and didn't conscript them
I have gaspard and briala on the throne
I exiled the wardens
I said I would support Vivienne as divine and did her operation
Told leliana I wouldn't support her as divine

...got leliana as divine...thank god for the keep that's a choice that's getting changed, but probably to cassandra since I switched my LI from her to josie.