220 réponses à ce sujet

[tommythetomcat]

RVonE wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The new system makes perfect sense.

Then explain what I just wrote above your post. You can still love the game (I know I do), but just be honest about its flaws.

It's a game, get over it, it's not real.  Stop trying to rationalize an irrational game that is meant to entertain not prove all the facets of the game are perfectly plausible.

[DocSun]

From the viewpoint of someone who has been playing nonstop all day so far I have this to say. The clip system is actually better then the old one. Sure you cant fire NONstop. but I never run out of ammo, so thats a non issue and i dont worry about my gun overheating midcombat also I find it gets you to use your powers more often now that they recharge quicker and you just feel much more action paced. I like it.

[RVonE]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The new system makes perfect sense.

Then explain what I just wrote above your post. You can still love the game (I know I do), but just be honest about its flaws.

Shepard Learns on the fly (per the tutorial, and presumably Ceberus upgrades as he notes)

Collectors are and advanced race and are technological equivalents/superiors.

Terminus System/Space still trades w/ citadel space

Good job on being selective. Let's start over:
1. how come the ENTIRE known galaxy (including the Terminus systems) has switched to a new system in the span of two years. I don't know if you know how large a galaxy is but I know for sure it is larger than one planet. Please note that we have a great many weapons systems on our little planet this very day. How come we can't unify our systems on one single planet but in the Mass Effect future we can make an entire galaxy (the part that is known) adapt the same system?
2. how come the collectors have switched to the same tech? Their beam weapons don't even need the heat sinks because they work according to a different principle. Why do the collectors drop heat sinks when they're not even using them?
3. how come that the first thing Shepard says when waking up and grabbing a gun "this gun doesn't have a heat sink" (or something to that extent)? Did Cerberus imprint his brain with knowledge of the new tech? No, because TIM wants him to be exactly the same.
4. Let me stress this once more: this happened in the span of two years. Shepard was dead for two years.


Tell me how this works within the lore? Let me stress this once again: I love the game but let's not pretend.

[Zhijn]

Im sure there will be a trainer or two out soon for thouse who want unlimited fire power!.



On PC anyway. =d

[Cloaking_Thane]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The new system makes perfect sense.

Then explain what I just wrote above your post. You can still love the game (I know I do), but just be honest about its flaws.

Shepard Learns on the fly (per the tutorial, and presumably Ceberus upgrades as he notes)

Collectors are and advanced race and are technological equivalents/superiors.

Terminus System/Space still trades w/ citadel space

Any respone to these perfectly reasonable/rational Lore continuations RVonE?

It makes perfect sense and makes gameplay more challenging/better

Also waiting for this, it will even fit into the Lore

[RVonE]

tommythetomcat wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The new system makes perfect sense.

Then explain what I just wrote above your post. You can still love the game (I know I do), but just be honest about its flaws.

It's a game, get over it, it's not real.  Stop trying to rationalize an irrational game that is meant to entertain not prove all the facets of the game are perfectly plausible.

EXACTLY. That is my point! There are so many people defending the game by trying to say it all works within the lore (not only here but also on the old forums) and it just doesn't. My point is exactly to admit this is a game! Thanks.

[JaegerBane]

tommythetomcat wrote...
It's a game, get over it, it's not real.  Stop trying to rationalize an irrational game that is meant to entertain not prove all the facets of the game are perfectly plausible.

*sigh*

That's just the point. ME2 is not an 'irrational' game. We're not playing Little Big Planet here. It takes some liberites with known science, granted, but this is a game that draws a lot of it's oomph from the fact that it tends to lean towards plausibility.

Simply saying 'bwawawah it's fiction build a bridge and get over it' isn't even an argument. It's barely even a cop-out.

[N1MA]

Not really... Assault rifle ammo up >> use pistol >>> pistol ammo up >>> use sniper >>> sniper ammo up >>> use shotgun >> shotgun ammo up >>> use heavy weapon



If you haven't found new ammo by that time you're stupid. You don't even need to look for them because you pick up alot withouth noticing when you're just walking trough the levels. People need to learn how to switch between weapons :/

[Cloaking_Thane]

They Have mass relays, speed of light, etc. Shep admits he has been upgraded to a certain extent, physical mental we dont really know.



Why not? simple answer is you could not continue playing the GAME if they didnt drop them.



youre nitpicking about something that you admit is an improvement. It's just silly?

[RVonE]

N1MA wrote...

Not really... Assault rifle ammo up >> use pistol >>> pistol ammo up >>> use sniper >>> sniper ammo up >>> use shotgun >> shotgun ammo up >>> use heavy weapon

If you haven't found new ammo by that time you're stupid. You don't even need to look for them because you pick up alot withouth noticing when you're just walking trough the levels. People need to learn how to switch between weapons :/

True.

[RVonE]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

They Have mass relays, speed of light, etc. Shep admits he has been upgraded to a certain extent, physical mental we dont really know.

Why not? simple answer is you could not continue playing the GAME if they didnt drop them.

youre nitpicking about something that you admit is an improvement. It's just silly?

I'm not nitpicking on the game. I'm talking about people defending the game by saying it fits the lore. I love the game. I love the ammo system but I also take it for what it is: it's a game and it shows.

[thewaldo1389]

I really don't mind the ammo system in this game, but some people wouldn't actually mind waiting a few seconds to cool down a weapon instead of switching thermal clips (as many of you have expressed on this board). Given that the manual said the Alliance switched to this system (but never mentioned other groups switching to thermal clips) I think it would make more sense for certain guns you can get being a "cool down" gun and Alliance guns being "thermal clip" guns. They each could have a certain advantage (unlimited ammo vs more power).

[Mister Mage]

Bioware probably should have changed that one thing, but you know what? It is first a game, not an interactive storybook. You don't change gameplay mechanics to match the story, you change the story to match gameplay. Because as a game, the gameplay is the #1 consideration. Gameplay is how we, the players, interact with their creation.



I like the new system a great deal more, actually. I am actually taking cover, and thinking about the consequences of my shots rather than running in and blasting through with Frictionless Materials. This is actually a system that is a great deal smarter than the last one, that has tactical effects on how you play the game. A great improvement in gameplay at the expense of a bit of side story lore is acceptable.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Oh well then we are in complete agreement then, You could stretch the truth a little, but its obvious they went a different direction per the ammo and it was always likely to be "square pegs"

[Jim0101]

RVonE wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...

RVonE wrote...

You know what's also really cool? The Collectors drop the same kind of heat sinks FROM THEIR BEAM WEAPONS!! Also, the heat sinks can be found in collector territory. I love how people are trying to argue how it still fits the lore and whatnot, so how come that in the span of two years the entire known galaxy and beyond has adapted this system? Even in the terminus systems and in collector space! What? Oh and how come that when Shepard wakes up he already knows about this new ammo system?

Sure, I agree that it makes the combat better but it is to the detriment of the lore.

Doesn't all the technology in mass effect originate from the reapers so then it does make sense that the collecters would drop the same heat sinks used by everyone else in the mass effect universe!

No, not all technology originates from the reapers. Play ME1 again or read up on the codex entries. Also, that wouldn't explain the switch between systems in the two years that Shepard was dead. Now read my post again and start over on the explanation. Otherwise, it's alright to admit that it is a bit contrived.

I haven't played ME1 but when I was finding out about ME2 and the story I saw in an interview with the people that created mass effect that the technology (like the citadel) thought to be left by the Protheans was left by the reapers as a trap for advancing civilisations so they could return to wipe them out a cycle thats repeated itself!

So either there wrong or you are...guess who i'm sticking with!

[D00MRoar]

Inarai wrote...

AMMO doesn't run out, cooling ability does.

And in a real firefight, I'd prefer immediate access to my weapon again as opposed to waiting on a cooldown that realistically should take a VERY long time. A weapon could never work the way that they did in ME1.  So if you want to argue sense, you're taking issue with the wrong title.

And improved game mechanics don't always make things easier. They can do quite the opposite, because the criterion for judging improvement isn't ease, but quality of experience - which is very often improved by challenge. Wait until you have some epic moment on your last clip for a backup weapon, and you'll appreciate the gameplay value of this sort of system.

I could not of put it better myself.

[InsanityVoid]

RVonE wrote...
Good job on being selective. Let's start over:
1. how come the ENTIRE known galaxy (including the Terminus systems) has switched to a new system in the span of two years. I don't know if you know how large a galaxy is but I know for sure it is larger than one planet. Please note that we have a great many weapons systems on our little planet this very day. How come we can't unify our systems on one single planet but in the Mass Effect future we can make an entire galaxy (the part that is known) adapt the same system?
2. how come the collectors have switched to the same tech? Their beam weapons don't even need the heat sinks because they work according to a different principle. Why do the collectors drop heat sinks when they're not even using them?
3. how come that the first thing Shepard says when waking up and grabbing a gun "this gun doesn't have a heat sink" (or something to that extent)? Did Cerberus imprint his brain with knowledge of the new tech? No, because TIM wants him to be exactly the same.
4. Let me stress this once more: this happened in the span of two years. Shepard was dead for two years.


Tell me how this works within the lore? Let me stress this once again: I love the game but let's not pretend.

1. On the other hand, one could argue that weapon systems on earth are unified. Every gun on earth uses magazines and the principle of combustion to accelerate small bits of lead at an enemy. 9mm rounds can be found on every continent.
2. Game balance for people that go through sinks like candy.
3. Shepard is probably smart and familiar with old/alternative weapon designs. The same way soldiers can navigate without a compass or make a fire without a match.
4. Lots of things can happen in two years.

I think if you observe anything (even the real world) you'll find things that just don't add up. The thing is, this is sort of peripheral to the game. At least in my mind it is.
Now if bioware would explain how ships moving faster than light aren't disintegrated when they hit .. oh i don't know .. a small pebble floating in space I'd be happy

[InsanityVoid]

RVonE wrote...
Good job on being selective. Let's start over:
1. how come the ENTIRE known galaxy (including the Terminus systems) has switched to a new system in the span of two years. I don't know if you know how large a galaxy is but I know for sure it is larger than one planet. Please note that we have a great many weapons systems on our little planet this very day. How come we can't unify our systems on one single planet but in the Mass Effect future we can make an entire galaxy (the part that is known) adapt the same system?
2. how come the collectors have switched to the same tech? Their beam weapons don't even need the heat sinks because they work according to a different principle. Why do the collectors drop heat sinks when they're not even using them?
3. how come that the first thing Shepard says when waking up and grabbing a gun "this gun doesn't have a heat sink" (or something to that extent)? Did Cerberus imprint his brain with knowledge of the new tech? No, because TIM wants him to be exactly the same.
4. Let me stress this once more: this happened in the span of two years. Shepard was dead for two years.


Tell me how this works within the lore? Let me stress this once again: I love the game but let's not pretend.

1. On the other hand, one could argue that weapon systems on earth are unified. Every gun on earth uses magazines and the principle of combustion to accelerate small bits of lead at an enemy. 9mm rounds can be found on every continent.
2. Game balance for people that go through sinks like candy.
3. Shepard is probably smart and familiar with old/alternative weapon designs. The same way soldiers can navigate without a compass or make a fire without a match.
4. Lots of things can happen in two years.

I think if you observe anything (even the real world) you'll find things that just don't add up. The thing is, this is sort of peripheral to the game. At least in my mind it is.
Now if bioware would explain how ships moving faster than light aren't disintegrated when they hit .. oh i don't know .. a small pebble floating in space I'd be happy

[RVonE]

Jim0101 wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...

RVonE wrote...

You know what's also really cool? The Collectors drop the same kind of heat sinks FROM THEIR BEAM WEAPONS!! Also, the heat sinks can be found in collector territory. I love how people are trying to argue how it still fits the lore and whatnot, so how come that in the span of two years the entire known galaxy and beyond has adapted this system? Even in the terminus systems and in collector space! What? Oh and how come that when Shepard wakes up he already knows about this new ammo system?

Sure, I agree that it makes the combat better but it is to the detriment of the lore.

Doesn't all the technology in mass effect originate from the reapers so then it does make sense that the collecters would drop the same heat sinks used by everyone else in the mass effect universe!

No, not all technology originates from the reapers. Play ME1 again or read up on the codex entries. Also, that wouldn't explain the switch between systems in the two years that Shepard was dead. Now read my post again and start over on the explanation. Otherwise, it's alright to admit that it is a bit contrived.

I haven't played ME1 but when I was finding out about ME2 and the story I saw in an interview with the people that created mass effect that the technology (like the citadel) thought to be left by the Protheans was left by the reapers as a trap for advancing civilisations so they could return to wipe them out a cycle thats repeated itself!

So either there wrong or you are...guess who i'm sticking with!

Please, don't give that tired argument of authority. You can read everything on the ME wiki. The reapers created the citadel and the relays. Our technology is derived from that technology. The reapers didn't give us ships or weapons with a certain cooling technology and then, in the two years that Shepard was dead, they gave us a different technology. It doesn't work that way.

[RVonE]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Oh well then we are in complete agreement then, You could stretch the truth a little, but its obvious they went a different direction per the ammo and it was always likely to be "square pegs"

Agreed.

[Mister Mage]

There are explanations. Shepard did do things between the end of ME1 and his death at the start of ME2. Not sure what the Codex says, but the new heat sink models probably did start showing up soon after the events of ME1, and Shepard can tell the difference between the ones that need a heat sink and those that don't.

[Jim0101]

@ Rvone - Considering the fact that the mass effect technology was left there by these evil doers (see my previous post) outside the galaxy it's quite possible that they could introduce this new heat sink system like all other technology that has been discovered.

[Jim0101]

The technology is based on the reapers like you just said yourself so the weapons system would centre around a guiding principle of that technology!

[RVonE]

Jim0101 wrote...

@ Rvone - Considering the fact that the mass effect technology was left there by these evil doers (see my previous post) outside the galaxy it's quite possible that they could introduce this new heat sink system like all other technology that has been discovered.

The beam weapons of the collectors don't need heat sinks. And yet, they drop them all over the place. Also, TWO YEARS. A GALAXY. How does that work?

Like someone here said before me: this is a game first, a story second.

[Zoe Dedweth]

Sialboats wrote...

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...
According to cannon, they took care of this problem, that's fine. That's established. Now they've taken a less efficient system and run with it. It makes no sense.

Nope they didn't. One, your weapon was overheating too frequently. Two, your weapon was subject to tech attacks that would render it useless for a long while. Three, the damage the weapon could do had to be limited to compensate for heat dissipation.

Now, the weapon is going to overheat soley on the availibility of thermal clips. If you're out of thermal clips, your gun will overheat. But, the damage likely has been upped massively with the invention of thermal clips. It'd be like firing your weapon with High Explosive rounds in ME1 without your thermal clips avalible. So with a freaking armory on your back, just switch to another weapon. 

So, thermal clips mean better heat mitigation, more damage (theoretically; as in game we'd likely never notice) and immunity to attacks like "Sabotage". With the ubiquitous nature of thermal clips, there really isn't a problem.

It's two steps forward. It's allowing military hardware designers to create more powerful weapons, at the exchange of a more conventional ammo-type system. Only, news flash, humanity should have no problem with this, they've been doing for two and half goddamn centuries. The galaxy loves it as well, it proliferates from the time of it's invention till shep wakes up, and - WHAMMO - new style of combat has emerged.

It's completely believable. Quit your ****ing and enjoy the game, already.

QFT

also grunts got crappy gear - load up ME 1 and use your starting assault rifle with no upgrades. how quickly does it overheat ? and that's for a N7 operative. Imagine what the poor sods in the infantry get. Spectre and other high end stuff is expensive.

In the books they also reload their shields with new batteries during a fight.. Be glad you don't have to do that,