220 réponses à ce sujet

[DesetFox1943]

Kaylis DX wrote...

Yep. Especially considering how, from a technological view point in-game, it's a HUGE step backwards considering you literally had thousands of rounds per...clip? Slug? Whatever. Point is, it doesn't make any sense. Not to mention that things eventually cooldown on their own, unless they're constantly being heated, which your weapons obviously are not.

Hopefully the heavy weapons don't function the same. Otherwise, just spam the M40 Blackstorm.

So yeah. We already figured it was a stupid idea when they announced it. Can't change it now though.

...wow.

[JaegerBane]

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

[WillieStyle]

Terror_K wrote...

Yeah. It's very contradictory for Mass Effect 2 to try and be this story-driven game that tries to immerse you in it's lore and universe one moment, but then completely kicks that in the nuts via a new system that makes little to no sense lore wise, is clearly a backstep technologically and has magical respawning thermal clips from pixie land (an element that the original game was extremely good at avoiding by relegating all pickups to containers and dispensers, etc). What's next in ME3... The "Mass Damage Amplifier" pickup that makes Shepard grow purple and do 3-4x damage for half a minute?

I'm  sorry the lore explanations bother you but there's really no way around this.

In a conflict between gameplay and lore, a good developer will almost always pick gameplay.
Furthermore, the physics of handgun heat dissipation is really a very small part of the lore.  I think I spent all of 2 mins thinking about it when I played ME1.

[beermilk]

I hope Bioware patches in the hybrid ammo/overheat system. It was a good idea. Why was it removed in favor of the boring vanilla ammo system?

[WillieStyle]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

A more polite way to put it is:
It's very likely that as you gain more experience in the game, you'll learn to conserve ammo and utilize what ammo you do get better such that this change will become less of a nuisance. 

[Terror_K]

WillieStyle wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Yeah. It's very contradictory for Mass Effect 2 to try and be this story-driven game that tries to immerse you in it's lore and universe one moment, but then completely kicks that in the nuts via a new system that makes little to no sense lore wise, is clearly a backstep technologically and has magical respawning thermal clips from pixie land (an element that the original game was extremely good at avoiding by relegating all pickups to containers and dispensers, etc). What's next in ME3... The "Mass Damage Amplifier" pickup that makes Shepard grow purple and do 3-4x damage for half a minute?

I'm  sorry the lore explanations bother you but there's really no way around this.

In a conflict between gameplay and lore, a good developer will almost always pick gameplay.
Furthermore, the physics of handgun heat dissipation is really a very small part of the lore.  I think I spent all of 2 mins thinking about it when I played ME1.

Yeah, well... some people like the IP and Mass Effect universe more than the games. Sure, it won't bother Joe XBox out there who just considers Mass Effect 2 to be another game amongst many. But for the true Mass Effect fans  --the ones who read the books and comics... who near drown themselves in the rich depth of the universe and its lore-- then this seems pretty damn poor and weak.

[shadow king 3]

yeah it was easier in the first mass effect...get over it. This is more realistic, overheating would proabaly destroy a gun:alien:

[Pancho Lefty]

Still getting used to it.

[WillieStyle]

Um I like the Mass Effect game world a great deal myself. I haven't read the novels, so maybe they're different, but ME1 didn't really emphasize the heatsink thing. It always read as a conceit to allow players to ignore ammo.



[Off-topic]

Can anyone confirm that infiltrators get the "slow time" effect when using sniper rifles?

[/Off-topic]

[Terror_K]

Yes... magical spawning thermal clips of convenience from pixie land are more realistic...

[Darth_Shizz]

Terror_K wrote...

Yeah, well... some people like the IP and Mass Effect universe more than the games. Sure, it won't bother Joe XBox out there who just considers Mass Effect 2 to be another game amongst many. But for the true Mass Effect fans  --the ones who read the books and comics... who near drown themselves in the rich depth of the universe and its lore-- then this seems pretty damn poor and weak.

That's awfully presumptuous of you 

[DesetFox1943]

Honestly , From my nerdy Standpoint and my firing of firearms IRL, ME1's Codex could not sell me with a (We can have zero friction in our gun and not have the barrel heat up) ME2's System works fine for me as well as more realistic (from my standpoint) It's simple Metallurgy. I mean sure in the future we may have advanced alloy, But all metal heats up.

[BaronIveagh]

You'll always get this sort of debate when you make a major change to an existing game franchise. I can't count all the threads that ****ed about the changes in each iteration of Final Fantasy after 7...

[Xerxes52]

What would be interesting is if they just blended to two systems together. You use thermal clips until you're out. When you are out the weapon overheats and you have to wait X number of seconds (say 10 seconds) for the heat to reach safe levels.



Either that or when your out, your character will say "I'm out" or whatever and an ally will toss you a thermal clip at certain intervals (every 90-120 seconds) so you can't just spam free clips from your allies.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Terror_K wrote...

Yes... magical spawning thermal clips of convenience from pixie land are more realistic...

More realistic than infinite ammo.

If you want to say that ammo system makes no sense, then it's ME1 system to blame, not ME2.

You are so used to something that has no sense, that switching to something else that has no sense (in your opinion), has no sense.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 27 janvier 2010 - 02:07 .

[saphera55]

My favorite fix to this would be, yes you need to swap clips, but you have an unlimited amount of clips. So instead of overheating and waiting (ME1) or running out of clips (ME2), you just swap clips like ME2 but you never run out of clips. Lore wise, Shepard could have a stash of 10 clips, and swap between them as the cool down.

[Jagri]

I don't buy the explaination behind the whole new weapon system. I think someone in the Council had a brother who wanted to make a quick profit and play on peoples fears that the Geth were a unstoppable monster and only his thermal clips could stop them!
So like the poor saps who support this new system you have been fooled along with most of the fearful population of the galaxy. Mhahaha dance puppets!

Modifié par Jagri, 27 janvier 2010 - 02:47 .

[Terror_K]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Yes... magical spawning thermal clips of convenience from pixie land are more realistic...

More realistic than infinite ammo.

If you want to say that ammo system makes no sense, then it's ME1 system to blame, not ME2.

You are so used to something that has no sense, that switching to something else that has no sense (in your opinion), has no sense.

Do you even know how the original system worked lore wise? The ammo system in ME made perfect sense and was actually really cool and sci-fi. And, it's also technically there in ME2 now. It's not really unlimited in the canon, but it is in the game because it would take so damn long to chew through one of those blocks when you're shaving something the size of a grain of sand that there's almost no way you'd run out between Normandy visits/Mako uses/major scene changes unless you were just shooting at nothing for ages.

[Arrtis]

Game wise.Going from infinite to limited is bad.*not talking about no heat up and stuff*

Story wise.I have no idea havent read the explanation for the change.

But i guess for the heating issue...its the future with alien tech...no heat given the right cutting edge upgrades would probably possible.*Alien tech*

For story spectres were given the BEST.Oh sorry is the best weapons in the game and in the story too good for you making it all easy?well it should.You are top dog in that game.

Blame the difficulty settings being not enough not the gun and how you play.

A great game will have difficulty settings for everyone.EVERYONE

[DoctorPringles]

A question for the devs, if ever they read this.



Is it possible to patch in a hybrid between the current system and the old? Say, for instance, you run out of thermal clips, the gun will attempt to dissipate the heat itself using a much slower system. That way, if you're out of clips, you can still use the weapon, albeit with more time between "cooling".

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Terror_K wrote...
Do you even know how the original system worked lore wise?

I know exactly what the codex says and I know there's nothing in there that makes heatsinks unbelievable, nonsensical or irrelevant. From lore point of view it's a mistake that ME1 doesn't have heatsinks. Slug velocities permited by mass effect fields would melt your rifle after few seconds of shooting. How come this never bothered you? If you are all about the lore then you should be satisfied now, not before with ME1.

Gameplay-wise it's also an improvement. I agree that heatsinks could be more common but the general idea is a step forward.

[TuringPoint]

The improvements of ME2 wouldn't be such an issue if Bioware had gotten it all right the first time around. I don't imagine most people have a concept of that...

[Terror_K]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
Do you even know how the original system worked lore wise?

I know exactly what the codex says and I know there's nothing in there that makes heatsinks unbelievable, nonsensical or irrelevant. From lore point of view it's a mistake that ME1 doesn't have heatsinks. Slug velocities permited by mass effect fields would melt your rifle after few seconds of shooting. How come this never bothered you? If you are all about the lore then you should be satisfied now, not before with ME1.

Gameplay-wise it's also an improvement. I agree that heatsinks could be more common but the general idea is a step forward.

So, instead it's more realistic to have a system where instead of extensive fire making things overheat, heat is caused by the practice of shooting itself, and you can shoot one shot now and then wait ten years to shoot another before the gun overheats? Because those clips just stay hot forever now... and the heat never just goes away passively, right? Mass Effect 1 did have a heatsink system, it's just that it was built directly into the gun, and the gun could cool enough without overheating if one simply shot more carefully. There's no logical reason given that explains how a gun requires a separate clip to cool rather than simply being able to cool itself.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Yes, because every single shot creates such enormous heat that it needs special cooling.

You want to experiment with heat? Remove your CPU cooling and turn your computer on. You'll fry it immediately. But, but why? Does the CPU "just stay hot forever now... and the heat never just goes away passively"? It doesn't matter that your rifle/CPU is cooled passively after few hours when you need only 1 shot/second to overheat it again. You always need cooling. Every shot, every second.

See the analogy? Need another one? It's not only about the codex. It's physics.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 27 janvier 2010 - 12:35 .

[Jim0101]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

I didn't anything about if you dont like it, I said if you run out of AMMO your an idiot!

Douche bag!