220 réponses à ce sujet

[Murmillos]

Terror_K wrote...

Yes... magical spawning thermal clips of convenience from pixie land are more realistic...

No more realisic then your over heated weapon magically cooling off the same rate in; vacuum, scorching hot planets - nearly as hot as the weapon itself.  Lets also lets forget your weapon could still over heat in -200'C temperatures too.

Yes, cooling in ME1 was done by little pixies putting heat into little bags and then flying away with it.  When you over heated your weapon, it took a lot of pixies to chip away at the heat to unclog your weapon before it could fire again.

ME1 system was broken on both lore and game play, while I've only had 3 hours in ME2 and 1 hour of that was shooting, I can't say for certain - at least we know ME2 system works for game play - as it is a generic clone copy (for the good and bad).

So.. summary:
ME1 "ammo" system: Broken in Lore and Gameplay
ME2 "ammo" system: Broken in Lore .  
 - They could have fixed the lore if the Thermal Clips worked on cooling gel/liquid/gas instead of as shunted thermal storage devices which you ejected.  but meh.

Modifié par Murmillos, 27 janvier 2010 - 12:45 .

[Terror_K]

Perhaps, but this is science fiction we're talking about here, not science fact. Element Zero is already pretty much "space magic" and BioWare have admitted as such. Every sci-fi gets at least a few pieces of science magic to use. So they set the rules up in the first game for the series... and now the rules have changed.



You mentioned physics, and that's fair enough. But what they're doing here is basically changing physics (the physics established in their universe) for ME2 to suit their new type of gameplay, and overall it's making the whole situation a farce and makes it come across as a step backwards, mostly because the whole thing is filled with so many damn holes. Whose to say how things are in 150 years time after all?



What I'd like to know is how the clips work, exactly? What is it that makes them a non-renewable resource that is useless once used rather than being something that can be reused after a while. Why does heat need to be dispensed into these clips rather than just dispensed elsewhere?



It's one of those things where you need to either bite the bullet and completely retcon, or you need to not have changed in the first place. As it stands, the whole thing is farcical. Yes, perhaps if it had been this way from the start it wouldn't have been an issue... but it wasn't. BioWare purposefully created the system for the first game, and in a sci-fi universe it fits. But you can't just simply change how it works without a good reason once you've established it.

[klossen4]

i make me wierd in the sand as crows eats me alive

[Andaius20]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Yes, because every single shot creates such enormous heat that it needs special cooling.

You want to experiment with heat? Remove your CPU cooling and turn your computer on. You'll fry it immediately. But, but why? Does the CPU "just stay hot forever now... and the heat never just goes away passively"? It doesn't matter that your rifle/CPU is cooled passively after few hours when you need only 1 shot/second to overheat it again. You always need cooling. Every shot, every second.

See the analogy? Need another one? It's not only about the codex. It's physics.

OH then oh master of pysics why then if you shot say 2 rounds from your 80 shot capacity LMG Sink it will never cool dow nuntil you eject the sink completely? then you magically don't loose the 78 other rounds you could have shot in the sink?

[MostSpectacular]

does anyone know how to actually redeem the term. armor and m490 code?

[PenguinForce]

I haven't played the game yet but I'm quite curious as how this new ammo system works for soldiers who plays on insanity.

Judging from Mass Effect one, on insanity, enemies takes quite a lot of damage before going down even without immunity.

It seems that in Mass Effect 2 the soldier playing on insanity would have a hard time since they rely on using guns and once they run out of ammo they seem to be screwed.

Modifié par PenguinForce, 27 janvier 2010 - 01:05 .

[Tin Soldier]

Jim0101 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

I didn't anything about if you dont like it, I said if you run out of AMMO your an idiot!

Douche bag!

If you run out of cooling it's because you have poor twitch skills or motor control issues (or both).  Intelligence is irrelevant.
ps. It's you're which is a contraction of you are.  Your is an adjective.

[action jim]

mewarmo990 wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

I think ammo makes the game more tactical and fun to play. You cannot just waste rounds without thinking of consequences. A welcomed change.

Yeah, it makes me work really hard to make those heavy pistol and sniper rifle rounds count. Meaning headshots ONLY.

Yea, I started playing like it was ME1, and ran out of pistol ammo pretty quick.  Switched to my SMG and got some ammo back, then realized how crucial headshots are in this game.  Hopefully, with Sniper rifles now not a stat, you can use them before level 10 without missing all your shot.  Can't wait to try out my Infiltrator now.  Way to "downgrade" the technology in order to increase the level of strategy and fun BioWare!

[Jim0101]

Thats probably why you can pick up bonus talents from your squad. Not only that but it was stated by Christina that the way the game mechanics work is if you are running low on ammo you get more ammo drops. So all you've got to do is make sure when you kill someone you run over their body! Either that or why not use your SQUAD! after all thats the point of having them. If you take a biotic or something with you and just get them to take down enemies when your low ammo!

[Solmanian]

if u watched the livestream, christina explained that when you're low on clips, the game will adjust, and they will be more abundant in the field... so the chance of runing out of ammo is only if you're a realy bad shot, or you're simply shooting in the air...

[SurfaceBeneath]

GOD DAMN SPACE MAGIC



Are we seriously discussing whether it is more realistic for a gun to have thermal clips or to self cool when I can fling a man 300 yards away with my freaking mind?



Also, after spending a fair amount of time with the new system, it really works better than the old system. The explanation for it is kinda wonky (it could work, if it didn't have so many arbitrary limits on it) from a pure lore viewpoint, but it certainly doesn't present even so much as a roadbump in my enjoyment of the game and I appreciate that they at least tried to make it work within the universe.

[Jim0101]

Tin Soldier wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

I didn't anything about if you dont like it, I said if you run out of AMMO your an idiot!

Douche bag!

If you run out of cooling it's because you have poor twitch skills or motor control issues (or both).  Intelligence is irrelevant.
ps. It's you're which is a contraction of you are.  Your is an adjective.

Thanks for pointing out the grammatical error but to be honest i've given up trying to be perfect when typing in forums it's not that important as long as people get the gist!

But look at my post above, intelligence is relevant as you just need to walk over a body to pick up more ammo. If you cant manage that than god help you!

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Andaius20 wrote...
OH then oh master of pysics why then if
you shot say 2 rounds from your 80 shot capacity LMG Sink it will never
cool dow nuntil you eject the sink completely? then you magically don't
loose the 78 other rounds you could have shot in the sink?

You're asking me about gameplay mechanics? Ask BW. I'm only saying that the necessity of using heatsinks is perfectly reasonable. How heatsinks work is another subject, a matter of gameplay and science fiction.

@Terror_K
Agree. Changing lore is always confusing but I'm accepting it for a matter of gameplay. I'm also considering it not as much as a change but as filling the gaps. ME1 lore doesn't contradict ME2 in any place. But we should seperate the lore from gameplay.

Both in ME1 and 2 lore and gameplay is a different story. We could try to explain how colossus armor with immunity makes human immune to headshots from incredibly powerful high-tech rifles, but this for example doesn't have any sense no matter how hard we try to justify it. It's a gameplay and gameplay has it's rights. Same is with heatsinks. Since lore doesn't support but also doesn't contradict heatsinks, I for one accept this new feature.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 27 janvier 2010 - 01:21 .

[Fireborn Sol]

I skipped from about page 4... so if this has been brought up, forgive me.



But the reversion to ammo sucks for one major reason:



The missed opportunity to make the Heat system more immersive. I saw a lot of folks complain about the old heat system breaking physics left and right...



But with a hybrid system, they could have set the game up so the various combat zones have modifiers on the speed that the guns cool down.



As it is, it makes even less sense, other than we know they decided they'd painted themselves into a corner and set their minds on having Ammo counts for the sequel.

[billabong1985]

Question, has anybody who has played the game ACTUALLY found themselves running out of clips and getting into trouble on a regular basis? From what I've heard (UK so not played yet) you really don't run out of clips unless you're just spraying wildly all the time.



As much as I loved ME1, I did feel that the overheat system was too easy to abuse once you got a few upgrades, from realtively early in the game I could pretty much hold the trigger on my shotgun all day and not worry about whether every shot connected as it would just keep on firing, it kinda took away any element of 'picking your shots' and contributed to making the gunplay a little repetative IMO (hence why I hated playing a soldier and always used vanguard so I could mix it up with biotics). The new system forces you to make your shots count and not just spray bullets endlessly until you kill things by chance, a more engaging experience if you ask me, spray and pray is all well and good occasionly but does not a fun game make in the long run.



Also, why are people making such a huge deal about the fact that it 'makes no in game sense', they provided an in game explanation, maybe it wasn't the most logical explanation in the world but they didn't just leave it at 'because we said so', and what does it matter anyway, this is science fiction, at the end of the day, if it's a change made for improved gameplay reasons, I really couldn't care less whether it's 100% logical, it's not as if it affects the story or something of any significance.

[JaegerBane]

Jim0101 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

I didn't anything about if you dont like it, I said if you run out of AMMO your an idiot!

Douche bag!

And clearly, in your hurry to spew out infantile rubbish, you've missed the point.

I was referring to the fact that you were running on absolutes. Calling people idiots because they don't meet <insert arbitrary precondition> is the kind of argument I'd expect to hear in kindergarten.

[Andaius20]

Billabong, you won't completely run out of ammo, but if you like to use certain weapons you will run outta ammo for them alot. (Heavy pistols, Shotguns and Sniper rifles) SMG's and AR have very high capacity so you'll be forced to use those ones most of the time.

Modifié par Andaius20, 27 janvier 2010 - 05:45 .

[Jim0101]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jim0101 wrote...
If your running out of ammo then your an idiot who cant aim to save your life!

Yeah, sure, anyone who doesn't like it must be an idiot.

That kind of argument sounds familiar.

I didn't anything about if you dont like it, I said if you run out of AMMO your an idiot!

Douche bag!

And clearly, in your hurry to spew out infantile rubbish, you've missed the point.

I was referring to the fact that you were running on absolutes. Calling people idiots because they don't meet is the kind of argument I'd expect to hear in kindergarten.

Me talking rubbish! I'm not the one game bashing because I dont like the ammo system!

[Destructo-Bot]

I love Sniping! Too bad I only get 10 shots. The new system is a step backwards. The old system was FUN. The new system is not. If I want ammo in my fictional Sci-Fi universe, I'll play Half-Life 2. I want Mass Effect back.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:19 .

[Badger8126]

What I don't understand about this system is that if I want more sniper rifle ammo I need to pick it up from the floor rather then just take a clip "allocated" to some other weapon....

Nothing should be stopping me from having a universal thermal heat sink pool but something is.

Am I missing something here ?

[Relinquished2]

Uhm, the new ammo system actually DOES make sense if you ask me.



In ME1 your gun overheated and was unusable for a certain amount of time. In the ME universe scientists have improved the heat problem by inventing heat sinks. The heat get's 'sinked' into that tube and you pop it out when it gets to hot.



Also to prevent the user from firing without the heat sink and having the possibility to damage his weapon, they build in a safety protocal, Making the gun unable to fire when there is no heat sink.