54 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

No. Lol. it does not get along with anything based on one scene. One scene is not enough.

The wicked grace game was the ONLY good rapport-building scene (oh, and the drinking scene with bull). and i actually think marshal was right in his comment. That might be a big reason I feel the way I do as well.

 

What I'm saying here is that in terms of the bulk of the main cast getting together and shooting the breeze like that, that one scene is already more than Origins and 2 ever had.

 

It's like some people look at those games and are seeing things that aren't there right now. Or am I honestly just forgetting something here? When did the group ever get together in such fashion in previous games, ever?  Lots of dog interactions in Origins' camp and sometimes party members talked to eachother, but not all at once all festively like that. In 2, everyone's constantly isolated, although the banter during questing is great and all, but Inquisition has that as well (provided one avoids glitches). 2's companions are neat, but if they gathered around for cards they'd have been far too dysfunctional for the sense of family Inquisition gave me in that single scene, which is, again, noteworthy to me precisely because although it's just the one scene, it's still more.

[Marshal Moriarty]

I wasn't a big fan of that scene. I know, I know but its how I felt. I loved the intent of the scene and I was delighted when it started, but it feels a little forced and doesn't flow naturally. Cullen and Josephine are good at the end, but mostly the scene felt a little awkward and stilted to me.

 

And yeah, one scene is definately not enough. There are very occasionally other scenes (Cassandra hitting Bull with a stick etc), but its few and far between. In DA2, I felt like I knew what each character felt about all the others. Not just a guess based on banter, but actual visual proof of how they got on. Sometimes they could carry on quite lengthy conversations during main quests missions (bring Anders to see Meredith at the end of 'On the Loose' whilst you have Sebastian or Fenris in the party, and they go back and forth arguing for a while etc).

[AlexisR]

I haven't finished DA:I yet, so I can't yet comment on the full picture.

 

However! Seeing as I recently replayed DA:O, I feel compelled to point out something: Using DA:O as an example done well is really strange to me.

 

+ For one, you bribed your companions to give you approval via gifts instead of any organic relationship progression. (You can argue that you didn't have to do this, but in general you only earned a few plus points with your story decisions, could still earn massive disapproval points which were hard to earn back -- while the gifts gave you a solid +40 alltogether.)

 

+ Second, in about 85% of all protag-companion talks, there was no organic conversation. Instead, you interviewed them on their backstory. They practically never asked you questions (with the exeption of Wynne) in return. Instead, you ask a question and then get a long tale of backstory. That's it, that's your DA:O relationship building right here. Sure, you know more infomation about them, but it's an uninteresting and impersonal dynamic.

 

+ Third, because it was so difficult to earn approval points outside of gifts+romance, you were highly encouraged to metagame. Take DA2: You can gain a MASSIVE amount of points with Anders, so losing a few by, say, turning him down? Not a big deal. If it's not a big deal, you can actually roleplay and pick the options that are in character for your protag and see where you end up. In DA:O, if you lose 10 points and you know Alistair needs 75+ points to have his hardening conversation which you need for the ending you're going for... well, you're gonna think a lot more carefully about how much your in character reaction will set you back vs. simple metagaming and agreeing with everyone about everything. 10 points in DA:O weren't that easy to earn back outside of the first gifts or a romance.

 

I like some of DA:O's characters, but in-game they don't really feel like they have a soul. I generally have to try hard if I want to imagine that my DA:O protag has an emotional bond with them. They have a lot of potential, sure, but believable friendship? Not so much.

 

DA2 felt a lot more organic: Conversations between Hawke+companion were, in general, an actual back-and-forth organic conversation. The rivalry system didn't always make complete sense but it was a nice way to customise your protag and actually have the companions treat different protags differently. No need for metagaming, too. It also had scenes where you found companions interacting with each other when you arrived! That was really neat. Honestly, I know DA2 gets a lot of hate, but its companion system is just so much better than DA:O.

 

So far DA:I seems to do okay for conversations that have the zoomed in cutscene!camera. Not so much for zoomed out interviews.

 

 

Anyway, point being: You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but I object to the idea that DA:O relationships had more soul.

[Marshal Moriarty]

I agree - DA2 has the best companion conversations and sense of engagement. Particularly because you can customize them to like or hate you, and you can decide Hawke's personality for a lot of variations in tone when it comes to the cutscenes. And there is no right or wrong answer on friend or rival - it doesn't just penalize you for not being on good terms with them. You get extra abiltites either way, and high rivalty still means they have a strong connection to you.

 

Origins is okay, but the party do feel like infodumps on their races or issues more than they feel like characters sometimes. The Quest for the the Sacred Ashes does bring out some excellent responses and dramatic moments from some of them though (Ogren suprisingly having probably the most and most moving of them). That quest does help to view them as actual characters, beyond simple information nodes.

[Bladenite1481]

I can not really get into DA2 companions because I loathed the game. I literally just beat the pants off of it in about 20 hours and have never touched it again. As for Inquisition and its companions, I just can't take any of them seriously. They all seem like caricatures and emotional misfits that serve very specific purposes. None of them feel organic to me, they are manicured and polished to state of feeling normal but not being normal. 

 

To me DAI companions just feel like walking parables, everyone of them comes with a message like some kind of after school cartoon mantra "And knowing is half the battle!" 

 

Soldiers who have lost their faith in what they were fighting for, Female Chav Peter Pan whose emotional coping mechanisms are purposefully filtered to that of an 8 year old boy, a noble woman who hides her own insecurities of age and loss of beauty beneath a veneer of self importance and egregious manipulation, nothern mage of opulent status with parental issues,  and then Blackwall and Cole. Blackwall and Cole, I actually like. They are not original ideas, but neither of their backgrounds feels like its a Lifetime made for Tv special trying to teach me some moral purpose either. 

 

DAO companions were definitely stereotypes, but they were well done and they entertained me. Too much of DAI's companion talks feels like it's trying to impart some great lesson of life to me and frankly its become too repetitive to have any impact. Its like all the decisions being grey, I stop caring what decision I am making, because they are all grey. The zero sum product between one and the other is negligible. 

 

I want to be entertained by my companions, not taught a lesson by them. I am told that DA2's companions are really good, I might have to make myself sit through that game again sometime soon. 

[Althix]

about lesson, yes. ideas, to be more specific. ideas Bioware want to shove as deep as possible down your throat. And if doesn't fit Bioware gonna hammer it down until you swallow it or choke by it.

 

can i have a game that free of indoctrination please?

[Abaddon_86]

There being only 8 hours of main story content, if you parse it down that way, is no worse (indeed, better) than just about any game out there, including DA:O. If you run the main story and the companion quests along with the core regional quests (not including Forbidden Oasis) you'll run 25-50 hours depending on pace and how much you pause to pick things up along the way.

 

Sorry to hear you didn't connect with the characters... I think the DA:I pacing of friendships and the amount of content available is actually substantially better than DA:O (more extensive companion quests, and less ability to power-level approval and dialogue trees). 

 

DA:O had a much longer main plot than 8 hours. Claiming companions and connection most players had to those were superior in DA:I over DA:O seems outright ridiculous to me, or similar to that previous claim: revisionist. Since these people are not paid a single dime by BW or EA, I wonder whether it's just some minor form of delusion that kicks in, the urge to defend the new over the old while smearing the latter in the process to make the new look better, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

[Abaddon_86]

I disagree, because I'm playing through and I spent most of yesterday feeling upset because one of my decisions made a companion very sad, and I feel like the game has a lot of soul.

 

 

Funny, whenever I made a decision or judgement and "XYZ disapproves" popped up, I immediately thought: Yeah, well, suck it. You'not gonna leave anyways, so what do I care for about what you approve or don't approve?

Happened every single time. I actually took some pleasure out of gaining disapproval since I didn't like many of the companions anyways.

[Greetsme]

+1 I like this review, it seemed very honest.

[Corto81]

My rating is 7.5/10, much like the OP... Some different reasons in places, some the same, but yes, rating about the same.

[Ieldra]

@OP about the companions:

 

I didn't have the same level of disconnect you did, but I understand what you mean. I think one problem is that the companion content is spread out over too much game. For instance...

Spoiler

..., in Cole's companion mission I really cared about him and wondered if I had done right by him with my decision. That was a very good moment. Also, when Dorian went on a rant at his father and I told him to let the man have his say at least, that was another good moment. Not all characters have them, but that's always been so in Bioware's games for me. My problem was that the connection faded away over time as I did other things, and banter didn't appear frequent enough to keep it up.

 

So, at the end of the game there was one companion stuck in my mind because the timing of his content and the intensity of his scenes happened to be just right. Dorian. Of course, it helped that he was writted *and* voice-acted exceptionally well, and that he represented what I've wanted to see for a long time in a DA game. As a comparison, take Cassandra. She's a fantastic character and also written and voice-acted exceptionally well, but.....I couldn't really care about her problem. Or Cole. He's also fantastic and written and voice-acted exceptionally well, and I did care about his problem, but the connection faded away over time. Or Leliana. I must've spent an hour (out of the game) pondering what to say to her in the aftermath of the attack on Haven - and didn't that have drastic consquences, but that, too, faded away in the amount of stuff I had to do.

[silentwindfr]

the only point that bother me it's the famous, the quest feel mmo-like....

when the mmo-RPG are simply RPG massively multiplayer... i invite you to go redo old rpg, like baldur's gate, neverwinter night,.... the secondary quest are often boring and...dull.

like go there get my necklace or find me this book there... people call them mmo-like because most of them did learn the code of the rpg throught mmorpg. but if you have played old rpg game you will laughs at this comment.

[Abaddon_86]

the only point that bother me it's the famous, the quest feel mmo-like....

when the mmo-RPG are simply RPG massively multiplayer... i invite you to go redo old rpg, like baldur's gate, neverwinter night,.... the secondary quest are often boring and...dull.

like go there get my necklace or find me this book there... people call them mmo-like because most of them did learn the code of the rpg throught mmorpg. but if you have played old rpg game you will laughs at this comment.

 

Are you saying BG2's, NWN's, Torment's etc. sidequests were dull and essentially also MMORPG-style fetch quests? I can't tell because your thoughts don't really seem cohesive.

[Ieldra]

Are you saying BG2's, NWN's, Torment's etc. sidequests were dull and essentially also MMORPG-style fetch quests? I can't tell because your thoughts don't really seem cohesive.

Those of BG2's sidequests that weren't either companion quests or stronghold acquisition quests for some class, as a rule, yes. At least, if by "dull MMRPG-style" you mean small and inconsequential. You can compare BG2's stronghold acquisition quests with DAI's major map sidequests, which were of different quality but never "meaningless fetch quests".

[Abaddon_86]

Those of BG2's sidequests that weren't either companion quests or stronghold acquisition quests for some class, as a rule, yes. At least, if by "dull MMRPG-style" you mean small and inconsequential. You can compare BG2's stronghold acquisition quests with DAI's major map sidequests, which were of different quality but never "meaningless fetch quests".

 

Even BG2's smaller sidequests offered story and wonder. I felt entertained. With DA:I's fetch quests, I feel like BW intentionally tried to waste my valuable lifetime. They were much worse in comparison.

 

On a sidenote, DA:I's major regional sidequests were more or less okay, but still stey stretched over far to much ground that I had to cover. Just recalled running around that stupidly huge fortress in the Exalted plains, which felt like hours... ugh.

[AshesEleven]

the reason I'm so torn here is that I love the characters, in theory. Iron Bull is awesome. Varric is a stipend. Sera is quirky and awesome. Solas is solas. Cassandra is a great companion..
But... I feel nothing. I wish I did because they're great, but I don't.. Perhaps it's due to what others mentioned: the static bodies without emotion, the 3rd person camera, the voices, etc.

But i also think it is just way the relationships progress. I think it needs to be slower and more fleshed out. the bond needs to build, it cannot be forced.

 

I...agree about the pacing.  I think the problem comes with the amount of exploration and open world content that most people are likely doing a lot of.  I feel like it's a lot of time out doing random things, and then a story mission, and then you get more bonding moments with all your companions, and then rinse and repeat.  I don't think it's that disjointed, but I get your reasoning.  

[AshesEleven]

Funny, whenever I made a decision or judgement and "XYZ disapproves" popped up, I immediately thought: Yeah, well, suck it. You'not gonna leave anyways, so what do I care for about what you approve or don't approve?

Happened every single time. I actually took some pleasure out of gaining disapproval since I didn't like many of the companions anyways.

I guess it's possible for companions to leave, but I feel like you'd have to want it.  It's so easy to gain their approval back.

 

Semi-related, but I love that all the major decisions get approval/disapproval from all companions, even if they're not there.  

[Lebanese Dude]

 

Semi-related, but I love that all the major decisions get approval/disapproval from all companions, even if they're not there.  

 

Honestly helped me get over my irrational need to switch companions to maximize approval gains xD

[Althix]

Now many people are bringing Skyrim into conversation about side quests of DAI. I even see BG2, NWN, Torment oooh there are people around who remember all these products, amazing... emmm anyway.

 

You see, each and every fetch quest (well 98% of them) has some backstory or purpose in Skyrim. Like to make it to the Thane title or increase your standing in one group or another. So in general side quests, even fetch quests are related to the character directly. They are related to character's standing in the hold, they are related to the character's knowledge. In short all of these side quests are making character stronger and tie our character to the world around him.

Although i am not big fan of Skyrim, i think game is "decent", however side quests are not designed in a way so their goal is to have sex with your brain through the eye socket.

 

Like, you travel through the wilderness - hey it's a cave and guy who needs help. And suddenly standart exploration of the cave is a mini game now.

You have to kill a necromancer who desecrating the crypt. Or help a girl to acquire some family stuff. And by doing all this you gain fame across this hold.

Yes, all games have side quests and fetch quests, The difference is in execution of this aspect of the game.

 

And on the background of all this i want to point out that as it now, it's wiser to compare DAI and their sidequests with FarCry 3/4 rather than Skyrim. And i hope you would understand why.

[Back Lot Basher]

There being only 8 hours of main story content, if you parse it down that way, is no worse (indeed, better) than just about any game out there, including DA:O. If you run the main story and the companion quests along with the core regional quests (not including Forbidden Oasis) you'll run 25-50 hours depending on pace and how much you pause to pick things up along the way.

 

Sorry to hear you didn't connect with the characters... I think the DA:I pacing of friendships and the amount of content available is actually substantially better than DA:O (more extensive companion quests, and less ability to power-level approval and dialogue trees). 

 

I refuse to parcel a game like Dragon Age Inquisition into "main story" and "side quests".  For the first time in a long time, a game has swept me up into its universe so profoundly that nearly everything I do, from fighting dragons to crafting boots, feels like it is an important part of something bigger overall.  I am 108 hours into my game, and still have 4 or 5 game areas to explore.  I have only killed 2 dragons.  This is a game that demands you take your time.  Absorb it all.  It's a brilliant piece of work.

[largejack1000]

10 is subjective, some think it can exist others think it can't. I think it can exist in theory, but only if we're all robots who think the same.

[largejack1000]

Now many people are bringing Skyrim into conversation about side quests of DAI. I even see BG2, NWN, Torment oooh there are people around who remember all these products, amazing... emmm anyway.

 

You see, each and every fetch quest (well 98% of them) has some backstory or purpose in Skyrim. Like to make it to the Thane title or increase your standing in one group or another. So in general side quests, even fetch quests are related to the character directly. They are related to character's standing in the hold, they are related to the character's knowledge. In short all of these side quests are making character stronger and tie our character to the world around him.

Although i am not big fan of Skyrim, i think game is "decent", however side quests are not designed in a way so their goal is to have sex with your brain through the eye socket.

 

Like, you travel through the wilderness - hey it's a cave and guy who needs help. And suddenly standart exploration of the cave is a mini game now.

You have to kill a necromancer who desecrating the crypt. Or help a girl to acquire some family stuff. And by doing all this you gain fame across this hold.

Yes, all games have side quests and fetch quests, The difference is in execution of this aspect of the game.

 

And on the background of all this i want to point out that as it now, it's wiser to compare DAI and their sidequests with FarCry 3/4 rather than Skyrim. And i hope you would understand why.

Related but quickly forgotten except for perhaps a comment here or there.

[Fishy]

I just reinstalled Origin after so many years. Installed a bunch of mod ( took a few hours) and all the dlc  I bought ( had to download them from the old bioware forum) and started to play. Than it struck me down has to why I loved that game so much ( and played it for more than 650 hours.. It's was a bit of an obsession).

 

It's not the graphic. The game had that little something Inquisition does not have.  I started to play a Cousland (dual-wielding warrior that can shoot with a bow . Yes you heard me). Hell I felt more attached to the parents of my protagonist than any other companion I met during inquisition. The ''origin'' was such a good idea. Everyone made it clear that my Cousland was a phenomenal warrior. Everything made sense and you can also tell the game was more ''low'' fantasy by the atmosphere of it. Than Duncan showed up and man I missed the beard. No character in Inquisition come even close to Duncan. Yet he was not present for long in the game. Although when I took a peak from the bridge at Ostagar and those nasty graphic in the distance. Yes. I realized the progress  in visual.

 

Than the UI. I started clicking around and re-exploring it and keep telling myself.. Why ? Why they did what they did ? The UI in Origin was perfect. For me it clear that some of them  who have worked on Origin were much more talented . You can see that some of those people really put their heart into designing that game.

 

So yes I agree with you. Inquisition lack the soul of Origin.

[Jukaga]

There have been games released that deserve such rating, but I believe they truly need to be innovating to achieve such a score. Ocarina of time immediately comes to mind, possibly Golden Eye 64. It should be a rare score, but not impossible.

 

I'm not going to attack your choices but I agree with the OP, perfection in games is impossible and no game ever released deserves a 10, even TIE Fighter, the best computer game of all time rates a 9-9.5 .
 

[Draining Dragon]

There being only 8 hours of main story content, if you parse it down that way, is no worse (indeed, better) than just about any game out there, including DA:O. If you run the main story and the companion quests along with the core regional quests (not including Forbidden Oasis) you'll run 25-50 hours depending on pace and how much you pause to pick things up along the way.
 
Sorry to hear you didn't connect with the characters... I think the DA:I pacing of friendships and the amount of content available is actually substantially better than DA:O (more extensive companion quests, and less ability to power-level approval and dialogue trees). 

The difference is that the side quests in DAO were actually interesting.