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[lyleoffmyspace]

I'd like to see everyone's opinions after this game of whether they actually believe in the Maker or not?

 

My Dalish elf had an interesting crisis of faith in the game. He began the game as a staunch believer in his gods (as did I), but as the game went on (especially In Your Heart Shall Burn) he went on to believe that maybe Andraste and the Maker were/are real vessels of divinity. Mainly due to the opening sequence of the game with the golden figure helping you through the Breach, but also the weird sequence following the avalanche at Haven.

 

However post Here Lies The Abyss that illusion or belief was shattered. Fade Andraste turned out to be a spirit in the form of Justinia, or maybe her soul or memory. However my Inquisitor kept up the illusion for people who needed the fight to continue, however his mind was laid to rest that the Maker doesn't exist and never has. 

 

Then What Pride Had Wrought and the final post game credit sequence happened - I think it's fair to say the Elven gods are real, physical entities - are they what we would consider gods? I don't know, but they exist and possess real power, validating my Inquisitors' belief. 

 

So out of the three Theist religions of Thedas - we have real evidence for the Old Gods and the Elven gods, and a few relic of the Maker. 

 

I personally don't think the Maker is a god, or even exists. I think it'd be very poignant if the most widespread and powerful religion in Thedas was one based on a "lie" so to speak - and possesses the least power behind it.

 

What are your opinions post Inquisition on these issues?

[TheLittleBird]

No. But I've never really believed in the Maker anyway. Andraste, yes, but not the Maker.

But I believe a lot of stuff. For example, I'm fairly convinced in my theory that the Maker has never existed, but instead his religion was one created to give mankind a chance to rule over themselves. Rather than be governed by 'real gods' like the elven ones and Tevinter's Old Gods.

 

But hey, I used to be fairly convinced that Flemeth was Fen'Harel, so you know... got that all wrong.

[lyleoffmyspace]

No. But I've never really believed in the Maker anyway. Andraste, yes, but not the Maker.

But I believe a lot of stuff. For example, I'm fairly convinced in my theory that the Maker has never existed, but instead his religion was one created to give mankind a chance to rule over themselves. Rather than be governed by 'real gods' like the elven ones and Tevinter's Old Gods.

 

But hey, I used to be fairly convinced that Flemeth was Fen'Harel, so you know... got that all wrong.

 

Well you were half right in that case 

[sylvanaerie]

No, it's a video game.

 

*Hint* I recall reading somewhere Bioware had no plans to ever affirm one way or the other in the Maker's existence.  

 

Personally I always believed those entities the Dalish worshipped were probably powerful rulers or magic users (we see Fen'harel was as is Mythal) in their distant past, so distant the Dalish have deified them and built up a mythology around them to fill the void left when they lost their culture.  Pretty much what I think is now coming to light.

 

I always thought the tale of the Magisters and darkspawn and Andraste were just the mythology grown over a millenium of religious hyperbole though there could be some kernel of truth at the center.  And we learned (with Corypheus) that it was the original sin of pride that caused the downfall of man.

 

So, no, even if my Dalish 'believes' in them, or my Humans 'believe' in the Maker, I don't.  Not even from a fictional standpoint.  

[Applepie_Svk]

wouldn´t be surprised if the maker was some elven god making a fun from humans...

[Dean_the_Young]

I believe the Maker is Gaider's meta-reference for the Bioware writing team.

 

'And then it was revealed that God was a bunch of Canadians.'

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I tried to play a character which believes in the maker, and believes he/she genuinely is the herald of Andraste.

I'm having a hard time so far even though I'm roleplaying. Because its hard to believe someone is that stupid and ignorant. It is currently very hard for me to play because I disrespect my own character too much.

[TheLittleBird]

Well you were half right in that case 

 

Hehe, I guess so.

That theory also had Flemeth be Andraste, though. 

[Heimdall]

I've actually become interested in the theory that the maker still exists physically in Thedas, as lyrium. That might explain why it sings to spirits and "summons an ache I didn't know I had" as Justice put it. It would also explain why the Lyrium veins were so concentrated around the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

Bianca said lyrium was alive, and it kinda fits.

[Kalas Magnus]

Yes. my faith is unshaken. 

[Reznore57]

One of the theme of the game is faith , in this sense , I would say yes the Maker exists.

If enough people believe in something , that something is powerful and has an influence on this world .

The Maker being a "real" thing just like an apple is a "real" thing is irrelevant.

 

The Maker is more "real" than the elven gods in current Thedas.

The Inquisition and the people fighting Cory and co are not doing it in the name of the creators.

You're not the Herald of Mythal , you're the Herald of Andraste.

Andraste's name brings you way more soldiers than Mythal name ever could at this point.

 

Anyway the way the Maker is described , he is beyond this world , he's the one who created everything , and sometimes out of boredom favors a champion to save the world from itself.

It's a bit like Flemeth says "Is it fate or chance , I can never decide" , even the elven "Goddess" doesn't know if there's some divine plan at work or it's all just dumb luck and people seeing too much into it.

 

About the elven gods , they were known to walk among the People , and they didn't have huge power like the Maker in the stories.They didn't create the world or the elves for that matter.(Although they shaped it a bit , Mythal creating the moon for example)

The way the Dalish saw them , they were more like guides , teaching basic things to the elves .

[Starki113r]

I personally believe that the Maker, the Old Gods, and the ancient Elven Pantheon are all perverted distortions of the actual truth, with the Elven pantheon coming the closest to the truth. Due to Solas' outrage over the Wardens' plan to kill the Old Gods in their sleep (he says it could make things worse, but it sounds far more personal than that), he and Flemeth both representing / embodying / being possessed by two Elven Gods (Fen'Harel and Mythal respectively) and their concerted and repeated efforts against the Blights and the darkspawn, I find it likely that the Old Gods and Elven pantheon are the same or bound to one another in some fashion (perhaps the Old Gods are the big bad that Fen'Harel supposedly locked away), with the Maker himself being a member of one of them.

 

Then again, I also think Andraste was a mage like the Tevinter do, so burn the heretic and all that sh**.

[Haidaes]

My character cemented his atheist ways over the course of the story. There was not a single piece of evidence for the maker. Even in DA:O it was more ambigous with the andrastes ashes questline. Every now and then I might have conceeded that the people need their faith to cling onto, but never did I fall back to it myself. So... no.

 

 

 

I've actually become interested in the theory that the maker still exists physically in Thedas, as lyrium. That might explain why it sings to spirits and "summons an ache I didn't know I had" as Justice put it. It would also explain why the Lyrium veins were so concentrated around the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

Bianca said lyrium was alive, and it kinda fits.

That would mean the maker can be corrupted by the blight? Seems odd for an all powerfull beeing. Maybe he is just pissed though afer millenia of the races of thedas nibbling away at him.

[BuddyL0ve]

I've actually become interested in the theory that the maker still exists physically in Thedas, as lyrium. That might explain why it sings to spirits and "summons an ache I didn't know I had" as Justice put it. It would also explain why the Lyrium veins were so concentrated around the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

Bianca said lyrium was alive, and it kinda fits.

I agree, and it fits with what we've seen.

As for the Maker...

Red lyrium is blighted lyrium. The Blight only affects living things.
Lyrium is alive.
Lyrium is present, physically, in both the material world and in the Fade.
Both types of lyrium "sing".
Lyrium is present throughout the world, and is an important part of magic, both casting and crafting.
Andraste was not a mage, but both the Chantry and the Tevinters have records of the very land itself turning against those that stood against her. Earthquakes. Droughts. Fire falling from the heavens. 
Only she heard the Maker's voice, and no-one (perhaps other than Sandal) has heard it since.
So I submit this hypothesis: Andraste's Maker is present, and hiding in plain sight.
Lyrium is pure, undiluted, raw magic, the power of the Fade and the material world both.
Lyrium is "The Maker".

However, I'm also of the opinion that it's not sentient, at least in any way we could understand. I think Andraste was much like Joan of Arc, ie completely off her rocker, but linked to something beyond her (or anyone else's) comprehension. "The Maker" was the only way her poor mortal mind could comprehend it.

[lyleoffmyspace]

I personally believe that the Maker, the Old Gods, and the ancient Elven Pantheon are all perverted distortions of the actual truth, with the Elven pantheon coming the closest to the truth. Due to Solas' outrage over the Wardens' plan to kill the Old Gods in their sleep (he says it could make things worse, but it sounds far more personal than that), he and Flemeth both representing / embodying / being possessed by two Elven Gods (Fen'Harel and Mythal respectively) and their concerted and repeated efforts against the Blights and the darkspawn, I find it likely that the Old Gods and Elven pantheon are the same or bound to one another in some fashion (perhaps the Old Gods are the big bad that Fen'Harel supposedly locked away), with the Maker himself being a member of one of them.

 

Then again, I also think Andraste was a mage like the Tevinter do, so burn the heretic and all that sh**.

 

I was thinking about the Old Gods possibly being the Forgotten Ones. They are both locked away somewhere, in prisons (beneath the world in the case of the Old Gods). The ancient Tevinter venerated and worshipped the Old Gods and hated the elves. Maybe the Old Gods, as ancient enemies of the Elven pantheon, directed their Tevinter subjects to do this.

[kyles3]

There's not supposed to be any evidence of the Maker to begin with. 

 

It's more like a deistic religion. Rather than a theistic one. 

 

A deist god wouldn't care how loud you sing, but the Maker apparently does, so I'd consider Andrastian beliefs to be theistic. The Maker is impressively dickish, though.

[Heimdall]

I agree, and it fits with what we've seen.As for the Maker...Red lyrium is blighted lyrium. The Blight only affects living things.Lyrium is alive.Lyrium is present, physically, in both the material world and in the Fade.Both types of lyrium "sing".Lyrium is present throughout the world, and is an important part of magic, both casting and crafting.Andraste was not a mage, but both the Chantry and the Tevinters have records of the very land itself turning against those that stood against her. Earthquakes. Droughts. Fire falling from the heavens. Only she heard the Maker's voice, and no-one (perhaps other than Sandal) has heard it since.So I submit this hypothesis: Andraste's Maker is present, and hiding in plain sight.
Lyrium is pure, undiluted, raw magic, the power of the Fade and the material world both.Lyrium is "The Maker".
However, I'm also of the opinion that it's not sentient, at least in any way we could understand. I think Andraste was much like Joan of Arc, ie completely off her rocker, but linked to something beyond her (or anyone else's) comprehension. "The Maker" was the only way her poor mortal mind could comprehend it.

Well actually Justice says the lyrium in the fade is the product of mortal dreams and says it doesn't sing because mortals can't hear it the way spirits can.
Andraste may very well have been a mage.
I'm actually inclined to think that the Maker is sentient, but inert for the most part. And that the lyrium around her tomb likely speaks to a genuine special connection between the Maker and Andraste.

Funnily enough, all this could mean that the Chantry and the Dwarves have been honoring the same deity all along.

[Reznore57]

I was thinking about the Old Gods possibly being the Forgotten Ones. They are both locked away somewhere, in prisons (beneath the world in the case of the Old Gods). The ancient Tevinter venerated and worshipped the Old Gods and hated the elves. Maybe the Old Gods, as ancient enemies of the Elven pantheon, directed their Tevinter subjects to do this.

 

There's a number of possibilities.

I believe the old gods = the elven gods.

There's 7 old gods , and 9 elven gods .(if you think Fen Harel and Mythal didn't get trapped , you get 7 gods trapped , just like the old Gods!)

 

Anyway in elven mythology , you have the creators and the forgotten ones , the good and evil gods.

It's possible the bad gods existed.

Or they were just the bad sides of the good gods , with their own mythology.

Like Mythal is a goddess of justice (good) and vengeance (bad).

 

I prefer this theory , there were only 9 gods , and their good side and bad side were worshipped under different names.

But there's talk of some of the Creators getting corrupted by something at one point...and fighting some evil stuff.

It's not clear , if they were fighting their own corruption , some others gods , or something evil like the blight though.