304 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

I believe there's definitely a Maker. Varric lists the sheer number of odd coincidences that have to occur and it's too many for "just chance." Even Solas is open to the possibility. 

 

[Xilizhra]

With a continuing complete lack of evidence, absolutely not.

[Sah291]

Yes, in the context of the game, I think the Maker exists...as some kind of primordial solar deity, and/or a metaphor for a more abstract concept, as the original divine light or logos that everything eminates from, including the elven gods and old gods, etc.

I think the whole Andraste/bride of the Maker thing could also possibly be remnants of belief in divine feminine or goddess worship, which is why so many people see parallels with Mythal, and why the Southern Chantry is literally so female dominated, etc. The role of women, like Andraste, is to be the earthly intermediary and "bride" of the heavenly Maker (Sun + Earth). Plus the whole jealous mortal husband who is the earthly rival and betrayer.

[kimgoold]

I didn't believe in the Maker prior to DAI and all the info we got from DAI and Trespasser make me think the Chantry has mistaken Solas's actions for the Maker (the Veil's formation and the removal of the Elven Pantheon of Evanuris).

I thought that Andraste was a hedge mage who spoke to spirits she mistook for a deity and this along with the power vacuum left by the Tevinter Old Gods going into hibernation? Allowed the creation of the Chantry that cobbled together various legends and half forgotten lore and gave more credibility to Andrastes new faith ... not unlike how in DAI no matter how strenuously  your inquisitor denies being holy or chosen the people make up outlandish and outright untrue events as gospel.

 

The Devs have said they will not confirm or deny the existence of the Maker anyway.

[VivainaDX]

I don't believe in the the Chantry's version of the Maker and I have that same opinion about any religion in general. Religion is a man made thing that is prone to errors and misconceptions. History is always written by those in power, and depending on the writers motivation and outlook, the same event can have many interpretations. Look at Ostagar, was Loghain a hero or a villain? Different people have a different interpretation. IMO religion is just a tool to maintain power and enforce the beliefs of individuals. Life\death, love\hate, knowledge\ignorance, acceptance\intolerance etc. are all concrete concepts\ideals that should matter, it's human pride/vanity/fear/desire/ignorance that creates the necessity of having to put a face on it and call it a god...I hope that makes sense.  

[raging_monkey]

Not really but I am still open to the concept, since every faith in the series has some concept of the maker

[ngomaichi]

I believe the Maker exists. And he doesn't care much about us.

[myahele]

I don't think the Maker exists, but I do believe that there are primordial entities that shaped the world, at least prior to the emergence of Elves and Dwarves.

 

There are Titans and there might be other ancient beings that we don't know yet.

[Nimlowyn]

I am agnostic about the Maker, and if the writers continue to neither confirm nor deny the Maker's existence, I will likely continue to be. 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Personally I'm agnostic in game but, if Lyrium is connected to the maker, then a Titan is the maker since it is Titan blood.

 

Personally I don't think there is a maker and, the Eveanuris are the elven gods, so not actually gods, just very powerful mages. Andraste was real but, was she hearing the voice of Mythal or another evanuris and not the Maker, perhaps even Solas? He is the maker of the veil, did she simply miss the "of the veil" part?

[Dean_the_Young]

With a continuing complete lack of evidence, absolutely not.

 

Coming from you, that's lol-worthy.

[Ieldra]

I believe the Maker exists. And he doesn't care much about us.

I'll say that if he exists, I certainly hope he's indifferent towards the people of Thedas and stays out of their affairs. A deity's beneficence is altogether too hard to distinguish from its maleficence.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

With a continuing complete lack of evidence, absolutely not.

What kind of evidences you need other than the mere existence of souls?

Or the fact that pretty much 90% of old gods have the name of archangels?

[Fredward]

Meh, dunno. And I hope we don't get an answer. Vague, polysemic hints sure but not answers. Do wanna visit/know more about the Black City tho.

[Tidus]

First some background. My Elvan Inquisitor was a solitary child in his/her clan. Both studied the Maker and the ways of the Shemlens.

 

As the Keeper's second he/she was sent to the conclave in order to get a better understanding. If I use a archer then as a guard to the second.

 

While either one believes in the Maker neither believes they are the chosen of  Andraste.

[Ieldra]

What kind of evidences you need other than the mere existence of souls?

I have seen nothing to indicate that they do...

Or the fact that pretty much 90% of old gods have the name of archangels?

...and this fact (if it is one, I didn't check) is comepletely irrelevant.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I have seen nothing to indicate that they do...
 

It was my imagination the fact that pretty much was stated that when someone dies it's soul go into the fade or that Yavana called back a soul of a dead person...or that Flemeth absorb a soul in front of our faces...,,,or that all the extracorporeal experiences the PC had into the fade in DAII,DAA,DAO..all my imagination.

[Xilizhra]

What kind of evidences you need other than the mere existence of souls?

How is that proof any more than the existence of magic?

[Lunatica]

...and this fact (if it is one, I didn't check) is comepletely irrelevant.

Dumah (Heb. דומה "silent") is an angel mentioned in Rabbinical literature Dumah is the Aramaic word for silence.

Zadkiel (Heb. צָדְקִיאֵל Tsadqiel, "Righteousness of God") or Hesediel (חֶסֶדִיאֵל Chesediel, "Grace of God") is the archangel of freedom.

Uriel (אוּרִיאֵל "El/God is my light", Auriel/Oriel (God is my light) Standard Hebrew Uriʾel, Tiberian Hebrew ʾÛrîʾēl)  light of god.

Lailah  (לילה  angel of the night) in some interpretations in the Talmud and in some later Jewish mythology.

Raziel (Hebrew: רזיאל‎‎ "Secret[s] of God") is an archangel within the teachings of Jewish mysticism (of the Kabbalah of Judaism) who is the "Keeper of Secrets" and the "Angel of Mysteries"

 

Aside from Toth which is a name taken by an egyptian god and of Andhoral  which may be simply the distortion of Azrael (Biblical Hebrew: עזראל‎‎ )

it seem to me that they were all inspired from the rabbinic literature.I do not think that's entirely irrelevant(that's up to  personal judgment) since it just show how Gaider during the lore development of DAO was inspired by angels for the old gods and then developed a lore to link them all closely to the El (Hebrew אל)God.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

How is that proof any more than the existence of magic?

What does magic have to do with souls?

That it can be used to do stuff with souls doesn't mean that souls are made of magic...Justice even said that they go beyond the fade....

into the ultimate beyond.

[Ieldra]

Aside from Toth which is a name taken by an egyptian god and of Andhoral  which may be simply the distortion of Azrael (Biblical Hebrew: עזראל‎‎ )
it seem to me that they were all inspired from the rabbinic literature.I do not think that's entirely irrelevant(that's up to  personal judgment) since it just show how Gaider during the lore development of DAO was inspired by angels for the old gods and then developed a lore to link them all closely to the El (Hebrew אל)God.

I still don't see any relevance for the question of whether or not the Maker is real.

[Ieldra]

It was my imagination the fact that pretty much was stated that when someone dies it's soul go into the fade or that Yavana called back a soul of a dead person...or that Flemeth absorb a soul in front of our faces...,,,or that all the extracorporeal experiences the PC had into the fade in DAII,DAA,DAO..all my imagination.

To answer those questions, you'd first need to define what exactly a "soul" is. It's not obvious in the context of Thedas. Kieran was said to carry an old god's soul, yet he appears to be clearly his own person. If you're generous and say that a soul is any non-material aspect (note: I did not say "non-physical") a living entity might have, then I'll concede the point. If you're assuming an aspect of metaphysical significance, I'll contest you since we don't have a metaphysical context to ground that hypothetical element in, just as we don't have that in RL.

[Xilizhra]

 

What does magic have to do with souls?

That it can be used to do stuff with souls doesn't mean that souls are made of magic...Justice even said that they go beyond the fade....

into the ultimate beyond.

 

None of which has anything to do with specific doctrine regarding the Maker.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think we've gotten pretty ample evidence souls exist in the Dragon Age Universe. Kieran carries (potentially) Urthemiel's soul within him, but also has his own. We know that people's souls enter the fade when they sleep or when they die. We even know in certain circumstances peoples' spirits can be trapped there after the death of their bodies, which is what happened to the people of the Blackmarsh. The fact that Archdemons and Corypheus can transfer their souls into other bodies is part of why they were so powerful, and understanding how that works was the key to stopping them.

 

I mean people like Flemeth, Morrigan and Anders talk often about the practical concerns of having or keeping souls.

[Ieldra]

I think we've gotten pretty ample evidence souls exist in the Dragon Age Universe. Kieran carries (potentially) Urthemiel's soul within him, but also has his own. We know that people's souls enter the fade when they sleep or when they die. We even know in certain circumstances peoples' spirits can be trapped there after the death of their bodies, which is what happened to the people of the Blackmarsh. The fact that Archdemons and Corypheus can transfer their souls into other bodies is part of why they were so powerful, and understanding how that works was the key to stopping them.

 

I mean people like Flemeth, Morrigan and Anders talk often about the practical concerns of having or keeping souls.

So you are implicitly defining a soul as a discorporate entity that once was an aspect of a living being, carrying all the personal traits of its being of origin except for (obviously) the physical, but not retaining a capacity to intentionally act or influence its environment unless re-anchored to a living being, which does not have to be the one it originated from.

 

One should note that since the different layers of Thedas' reality are observable and open to inquiry, here, a soul isn't a metaphysical entity, which makes using the term a little odd in my view, since IRL, it's usually used in a metaphysical context.