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[InquisiTron]

Which is precisely why I theorized about Fen'Harel and Mythal supporting the religion of the Maker and the belief in him. For belief in a 'real' god who can rule over mankind, like Corypheus wanted to be, can be very dangerous. Give humans religion with an absent god and that can be a very powerful thing.

Well, if you don't agree you can go and kill a real god so not really "that" dangerous all in all. Can't do anything about the Maker cult....apart maybe massive blood magic to control minds? But why do that when you can just control minds already with the Maker religion really.
I do agree however that old gods just kept Maker cult around to manipulate/control people more easily without putting themselves too much at risk. Those who forgot that quickly got their butt handed to them.
 

Though I'm not sure if the definitions of a god really matter here. For all we know, the Maker could have been exactly what Fen'Harel and Mythal are, but just their dad, and they killed him at one point. A bit like Zeus did with his father, and his father with his own father.

Zeus (if you take the myths as if they were a fantasy setting reality, like the old gods, etc in DA) was the literal definition of a god, as in nothing more than a material fact of life, just supped up being is all. Could talk to him, could kick his butt, he drove around wooing women and above all, if you pissed him off, he'd come down and smite you nice and proper. Not really fitting with anything Maker related imho.

[Ashagar]

My first inquisitor a human female champion firmly belived in the maker leading the inquisition as a army of the faithful, the revelations during the game just made her faith stronger. My second Male dwarf warrior Cadash believes in the stone which he feels when he is underground but is open to the possibility of deities existing.

 

My personal thoughts is that the maker exists and he might not be human in origin but given the belief of what he's done and how he is named he might be dwarven in origin, one of the deities the dwarves worshiped before the belief in the stone became the dominate belief amongst the dwarves If the primal thaig shows anything the ancient dwarves seemed to worshiped deities before the belief in the stone became dominate.

[TheLittleBird]

Well, if you don't agree you can go and kill a real god so not really "that" dangerous all in all. Can't do anything about the Maker cult....apart maybe massive blood magic to control minds? But why do that when you can just control minds already with the Maker religion really.
I do agree however that old gods just kept Maker cult around to manipulate/control people more easily without putting themselves too much at risk. Those who forgot that quickly got their butt handed to them.
 
Zeus (if you take the myths as if they were a fantasy setting reality, like the old gods, etc in DA) was the literal definition of a god, as in nothing more than a material fact of life, just supped up being is all. Could talk to him, could kick his butt, he drove around wooing women and above all, if you pissed him off, he'd come down and smite you nice and proper. Not really fitting with anything Maker related imho.

 

That's the whole thing, though. I theorized on the last page that Fen'Harel and Mythal locked their brothers and sisters, the Old Gods, deep underground, where they could no longer 'rule' the people. And then brought the religion of a Maker to all corners of Thedas. A 'god' in a different sense of the word, as in, one who doesn't directly interfere with what is going on in the world, and who inspires faith among his believers. And who then, in my theory, doesn't exist.

 

Oh, and I know. What I meant was in that the Maker could have been a Uranus, with the Old Gods and elven gods being the Titans, or a Kronos, with the elven gods and Old Gods being the Olympeans. In that they murdered their 'father'. Maybe he wasn't a god in the sense that he interacted with the world like Zeus would, but it's the patricide in the mythology that I was referring to.

[Heimdall]

Why is it that when everyone talks of the various gods and goddess, they only talk of the Elven and old gods? why not the Avvar's gods?

Mostly because we barely know about them compared to the others.  Heck though, I'd love to run into one of them.

 

,,,Wait a moment, the Avvar are descendents of the Alamarii.  The Alamarii came from the distant west.  The Warden is headed west.  I've been told Solas was also headed west...  I don't know what all this means, but I'm interested.

[InquisiTron]

That's the whole thing, though. I theorized on the last page that Fen'Harel and Mythal locked their brothers and sisters, the Old Gods, deep underground, where they could no longer 'rule' the people. And then brought the religion of a Maker to all corners of Thedas. A 'god' in a different sense of the word, as in, one who doesn't directly interfere with what is going on in the world, and who inspires faith among his believers. And who then, in my theory, doesn't exist.

Oh, well maybe, that's part of the fade/old gods mumbo jumbo I was referring to. That said, yea, I'm with you on that, Maker's just a belief. As for how it came to be, think it started like ours, but in such a world it's more than likely that spirits/demons/gods/whatnot played around with it like you said.

Why is it that when everyone talks of the various gods and goddess, they only talk of the Elven and old gods? why not the Avvar's gods?

When there's talk about religion, you mainly talk about the big ones, only using the smaller ones to make a point. Big ones shape worldwide realities every single day, whether you want it or not, smaller ones have very little consequences beyond their small confined borders. Not saying there are good or bad ones, just saying they don't have the power to matter, and it's all about power.

[Ziegrif]

Mostly because we barely know about them compared to the others.  Heck though, I'd love to run into one of them.

 

,,,Wait a moment, the Avvar are descendents of the Alamarii.  The Alamarii came from the distant west.  The Warden is headed west.  I've been told Solas was also headed west...  I don't know what all this means, but I'm interested.

 

Go west young man.~

 

If we do go west next Dragon Age I want a weaponized goat.

[Bleachrude]

I do recall a banter where Solas seems to actually like the idea of the Maker, even if he doesn't like the Chantry itself.

 

His banter about this is similar to how Star Trek once pointed out. a true "god" doesn't need worshippers and Solas likes the fact that the Maker doesnt need to show his power to have people believe in him.

[Bfler]

LOL, why should I believe in a fictional god of a fictional game universe. I'm not a candidate for the funny farm

[Kenshen]

Never believed and still don't

[Aren]

I believe David Gaider has said they will never deny or confirm the existence of the Maker.

 

Which means in the end, its gonna come down to what you (or your game avatar) believes.

 

For example, I am a Christian and i can see loads of similarities between the Maker and God himself. So i believe (as my avatars do) that the maker do exist.

For someone who doesnt believe in God in real life, they can just as well believe that the Maker in the game doesnt exist. And neither the believers nor the non-believers will be "wrong" about it.

 

To me Andraste is a clear Messiah, probably the last person to whom the Maker revealed himself physically/metaphisically, and any believer post Andraste will have to rely on faith when it comes to the Maker. Kind of like Jesus coming to Earth to save mankind, and from then on, God did not reveal himself to mankind, because Jesus became the bridge between God and mankind (Andraste is the bridge between the Maker and Thedas). And only a very few, very faithfull people will see a spark of divinity post-Andraste. Leliana being one of those few, she presents herself to the Hero of Ferelden as someone who had a dream sent from the Maker that compelled her to find the HOF and help him on his journey. By the time she meets the Hero, he's kinda still a nobody, who just came out of the battle in Ostagar, and yet she already knew he would be someone special with an important mission.

 

As for the Old Gods and Elven Gods, I kinda see them like Angels. The Old Gods were cast out and turned into Archdemons (like the angels turning into demons when they left Heaven with Lucifer). The Elven Gods tho its what been puzzling me the most, I still cant understand if they are powerful and god-ly because they were always so, or if they were just normal ancient elves who achieved such power and status. Either way, I think all of them have some connection to the Maker (in my second playthrough that i just started, im gonna be paying attention to all interactions with Solas to see if he slips on what he believes about the Maker, there could be a big revelation hidden in some small banther that at first we wouldnt give a thought about)

 

So what i believe in the game, its that the Maker is real, that Andraste was his last atempt at mankind's redemption, and that Thedas now has to take care of itself. The Maker might still work through certain individuals tho, but never directly. Either Andraste, Justinia, or just a good spirit, i believe the golden spirit woman in the fade was sent to help the Inquisitor. She was certainly not sent by the elven gods - they are too busy harvesting souls apparently - she was not sent by the old gods - still archdemons or trapped - so that leaves only 1 entity with enough power to do so - the maker himself. I dont believe she was Justinia tho, if she was, why wouldnt she say so. We already know spirits can stay in the fade lingering after they die (you can see the mother of that mage girl staying in the fade waiting for her daughter to come of age so that she can approach her in the fade - this is in one of the comics), so if that was indeed Justinia waiting to guide the Inquisitor throught the fade, why wouldnt she just say so?

 

There are many things in the lore that seem to indicate that the Maker is indeed real, but there is never any tangible way of proving it, and i think thats because the writers want to give the players freedom to believe or not. And never get to the point where you dont believe it throughout all the games and reach the end and - oh dang! - i was so stupid for not believing. Or the other way around.

 

Whatever you, as a player, believe about the Maker, it is a valid belief.

actually the old gods are angelic ispiration  

Dumat Dragon of silence -------->  Dumah    angel of silence

Razikale  Dragon of Mistery--------->  Razkel  angel of mistery

there is no evidence that the archedemons have somthing to do with te elven phanteon.

[RepHope]

My Human Inquisitors do. My Mage Male Inquisitor firmly believed because it was all so deliciously ironic. He was given the power to break into the Black City and unleash hell like everyone was always afraid mages would do. Instead of giving into temptation, he used it to fight against Cory, the guy who is charged with unleashing the Blights, and is partly responsible for how shitty mages have been treated. Kicking his ass felt like I was evening the scales of what he did, and "redeeming" mages in the eyes of the Maker.

As for me personally? As long as Gaider refuses to give us an definitive answer, it doesn't matter much to me. The Maker doesn't really matter, it's the people who believe, or don't believe, in him that matter. They're the ones who will be impacting the world, since the Maker seems to have taken his waifu and found someplace to chill.

I guess I would prefer he exists since I like to see people's faith rewarded. Until we prove or disprove his existence though it's his followers who matter more than him.

[phaonica]

If the Maker is real, he seems like kind of a jerk. Par for the course, really.

 

Actually, Cassandra said something to my Dalish elf along the lines of ... "Is there no room in your pantheon for one more god?" .. and it did kind of give me pause. Why not?

[Tribalhero]

I'm somewhat convinced that Elgar'nan (Mythal's Husband) is the Maker. Read up on Threnodies 5 and then the stuff on Mythal, Elgar'nan and their two boys Falon'Din and Dirthamen. The storys sorta coincide with each other. Btw, I still believe Flemeth was in fact Andraste and that it was Mythal's spirit that was able to reach the Maker.

[SwordofMercy1]

Okay, I'll have to kinda explain this since it's complicated... And may p*** people off. So, my character... okay all of my characters from DA:O to DA:I have never actually believed in the Maker. And this has nothing to do with the whole no proof thing, or those instances that disprove is existence in the game. Rather, it kinda stems from my own belief (prepares fallout shelter). Instead of believing in the Maker, they believe in Andraste. Andraste was the one who overthrew the Imperium. Andraste was the one who liberated the slaves. Andraste was the one who gave hope back to the people. Andraste was the one who died because of someone else's fear. So what if she was doing it in the name of a god? Doesn't mean my characters have to believe in him to follow the same beliefs of: compassion, patience, sympathy, will  ect (though my Hawke was pretty Renegade lol). Doesn't mean I make my char go around telling people the Maker is fake. Rather, I prefer to except another's belief as entirely their own, and I have no right to question it... Though I will make that character. SOON. 

[KaiserShep]

All of my PC's share my agnosticism. None of them have time for religious veneration.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's a game so to believe is somewhat foolish, believe in what? That Bioware may or may not decide to eventually reveal that the Maker does or does not exist? 

 

That said I enjoyed playing a character who embraced the Andrastian religion.

 

 

If the Maker is real, he seems like kind of a jerk. Par for the course, really.

 

Actually, Cassandra said something to my Dalish elf along the lines of ... "Is there no room in your pantheon for one more god?" .. and it did kind of give me pause. Why not?

 

A jerk because of what? "Abandoning the world" when said world took the ****** on him?

Giving Andraste her powers to fight Tevinter, yes such a jerk.

[SomberXIII]

We are The Maker. 

[AlphaDormante]

With all the spiritual flabberdashery that exists in the DA world, turning up my nose to the basic concept of the Maker seems a little silly to me. I'm sure there's some kind of merit to the Andrastian religion... just perhaps not as clean-cut as the Chantry's teachings would have us believe. History is made up of the best stories and all that.

 

That said, I enjoyed playing my Inquisitor starting with as much non-devout faith as any joe schmoe, but eventually growing to accept her role and believe strongly in the Maker. It was very fun from a storytelling perspective.

[TheLittleBird]

I had a thought, which is sort of a follow-up to my theory right here.

 

Maybe the locked-up gods are not the 7 other Elven gods, but the Forgotten Ones, who then are the Old Gods as well, and maybe they were not just locked up by Fen'Harel and Mythal, but by the other elven gods as well.

In Origins, there is a quest called "A Test of Faith". In this, the player must go through various trials to reach the Urn of Sacred Ashes. The first trial has the player complete eight riddles. Given to you by what seems to be 8 spirits, bearing close resemblance to 8 important people in Andraste's life. Among them are 5 men, and 3 women. 
The elven pantheon has 9 'gods'. 5 of them male, 4 of them female.

The important people in Andraste's life are:

Brona - Andraste's mother.
Ealisay - A close friend of Andraste.
Cathaire - The man who commanded Andraste's armies.
Maferath - Andraste's husband. 
Havard - A friend of Maferath.
Hessarian - The archon who ordered Andraste's execution.
Vasilia - Hessarian's wife.
Shartan - The bald elf who fought alongside Andraste during her life and commanded the elven ex-slaves.

The one who does not appear here is Andraste herself, prophet and supposed bride of the Maker.

The elven gods are:

Elgar'nan - The God of Vengeance
Mythal - The Great Protector
Falon'Din - Friend of the Dead, the Guide
Dirthamen - Keeper of Secrets
Andruil - Goddess of the Hunt
Sylaise - The Hearthkeeper
June - God of the Craft
Ghilan'nain - Mother of the Halla
Fen'Harel - The Dread Wolf

Maybe these two groups are one and the same. And maybe they worked together to lock up the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods to stop them from ruling Thedas, and spread the word of the Maker to all four corners of the world through the life of Andraste. It seems like a far stretch, I know... but couldn't it be possible?

[Draining Dragon]

My interpretation: The Maker is actually Bioware. Think about it: both have total power over Thedas, power that transcends the franchise itself.

[Rannik]

Don't be silly, it's a videogame 

 

My Inquisitor still believes though, even more so now.

[MadMaximoff]

Andraste seems to be based off Joan of Arc so it's not unbelievable that Andraste existed. The Maker however feels more ficticious and probably made up by the Chantry to control the masses. 

 

However it's also highly possible that the Maker is just another name for one of the Elven Gods, after all Mythral and Fen Harel have many different names too.

 

Or, The Maker may be another Magister like Coryethus and the Architect, since they seem to follow the names of Builders. 

 

Many ways it could go.

[Vanth]

I tried to play a character which believes in the maker, and believes he/she genuinely is the herald of Andraste.

I'm having a hard time so far even though I'm roleplaying. Because its hard to believe someone is that stupid and ignorant. It is currently very hard for me to play because I disrespect my own character too much.

 

That view in itself seems a bit silly. Isn't it 100% obvious that there is indeed a "Maker" in the DA universe? Is there a being (or set of beings) that made everything in the DA universe and has omnipotent power to intervene in the events your inquisitor experiences? Absolutely yes! That is exactly what the Bioware devs have done! So the existence of a Maker is indisputable (from our point of view) and it is only the ignorance of the in game characters that allows any lack of faith. 

[lyleoffmyspace]

I had a thought, which is sort of a follow-up to my theory right here.

 

Maybe the locked-up gods are not the 7 other Elven gods, but the Forgotten Ones, who then are the Old Gods as well, and maybe they were not just locked up by Fen'Harel and Mythal, but by the other elven gods as well.

In Origins, there is a quest called "A Test of Faith". In this, the player must go through various trials to reach the Urn of Sacred Ashes. The first trial has the player complete eight riddles. Given to you by what seems to be 8 spirits, bearing close resemblance to 8 important people in Andraste's life. Among them are 5 men, and 3 women. 
The elven pantheon has 9 'gods'. 5 of them male, 4 of them female.

The important people in Andraste's life are:

Brona - Andraste's mother.
Ealisay - A close friend of Andraste.
Cathaire - The man who commanded Andraste's armies.
Maferath - Andraste's husband. 
Havard - A friend of Maferath.
Hessarian - The archon who ordered Andraste's execution.
Vasilia - Hessarian's wife.
Shartan - The bald elf who fought alongside Andraste during her life and commanded the elven ex-slaves.

The one who does not appear here is Andraste herself, prophet and supposed bride of the Maker.

The elven gods are:

Elgar'nan - The God of Vengeance
Mythal - The Great Protector
Falon'Din - Friend of the Dead, the Guide
Dirthamen - Keeper of Secrets
Andruil - Goddess of the Hunt
Sylaise - The Hearthkeeper
June - God of the Craft
Ghilan'nain - Mother of the Halla
Fen'Harel - The Dread Wolf

Maybe these two groups are one and the same. And maybe they worked together to lock up the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods to stop them from ruling Thedas, and spread the word of the Maker to all four corners of the world through the life of Andraste. It seems like a far stretch, I know... but couldn't it be possible?

 

The first Blight ended in the same year as Andraste was born, which makes this theory a little weird I guess. Why would the elven gods have waited so long after they imprisoned the Old Gods to start spreading their word? Especially after their people, the elves, lost literally everything to the Tevinter Imperium who worshipped the Old Gods. The timeline just doesn't sit right for me sorry.