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[Legion of 1337]

The maker is probably like this guy:

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Azathoth:

Not the God of Abraham.

Also just realized the Chantry is basically Islam done up in a European style. I mean, Andraste is basically the same as Mohammed.

[Heimdall]

The maker is probably like this guy:

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Azathoth:

Not the God of Abraham.

Also just realized the Chantry is basically Islam done up in a European style. I mean, Andraste is basically the same as Mohammed.

Kinda...

I recall in an interview Gaider said Andraste was envisioned as a conjunction of Jesus and Joan of Arc.

[Legion of 1337]

Kinda...

I recall in an interview Gaider said Andraste was envisioned as a conjunction of Jesus and Joan of Arc.

Shes a human who was spoken to by God and told to spread his word by the sword. Sounds exactly like Mohammed.

[The Baconer]

The maker is probably like this guy:

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Azathoth:

Not the God of Abraham.

Also just realized the Chantry is basically Islam done up in a European style. I mean, Andraste is basically the same as Mohammed.

 

Yes, a primal, cosmic horror beyond all human comprehension. As I imagine any omniscient and omnipotent being would be.

[Legion of 1337]

Yes, a primal, cosmic horror beyond all human comprehension. As I imagine any omniscient and omnipotent being would be.

I've always said more media should deal with Lovecraftian cosm8c horror or his Mythos directly. For some reason neither film nor games have ever picked it up. Not even later literature. Its always remained the domain of his books.

[The Baconer]

I've always said more media should deal with Lovecraftian cosm8c horror or his Mythos directly. For some reason neither film nor games have ever picked it up. Not even later literature. Its always remained the domain of his books.

 

Bloodborne :>

[Lanavis]

Honestly, until we get a shared and acceptable definition of what a divine entity/god constitutes, this question goes nowhere.

For instance, I stand by the belief that the elven gods are proven to be gods in spite of Solas' claim to the contrary b/c they fit my requirements for what a god in fictional media would have: immortality, able to survive a physical death, great power that can greatly affect the physical makeup of the world, longevity, etc.

[Legion of 1337]

Honestly, until we get a shared and acceptable definition of what a divine entity/god constitutes, this question goes nowhere.
For instance, I stand by the belief that the elven gods are proven to be gods in spite of Solas' claim to the contrary b/c they fit my requirements for what a god in fictional media would have: immortality, able to survive a physical death, great power that can greatly affect the physical makeup of the world, longevity, etc.

Yes, but i dont think they could have created the universe. Thats why I still think theres a supreme God.

[CronoDragoon]

I believe that something once existed whether an individual or group which eventually turned into the concept of the Maker. Similar to how the elven rulers became the pantheon.

[Heimdall]

Shes a human who was spoken to by God and told to spread his word by the sword. Sounds exactly like Mohammed.

Mohammed didn't fail and get burned at the stake.

[Legion of 1337]

Mohammed didn't fail and get burned at the stake.

I'll admit the ending of the tale is a Jesus rip off yes.

[Heimdall]

I'll admit the ending of the tale is a Jesus rip off yes.

I think that mostly Joan, actually.

[Legion of 1337]

I think that mostly Joan, actually.

Its Jesus because Tevinter are the Theodosian Romans.

[myahele]

I'd have to say yes. Maybe there was an entity that created the fundamentals of the world and then left due to being dissatisfied with how it turned out.

 

That everything else afterwards is just a pure myth

[Heimdall]

Its Jesus because Tevinter are the Theodosian Romans.

Yeah, but she actually was captured and burned at the stake.

[Roxy]

I believe there is a maker in this game. But it's up to the writers if they are going to show him in a way in future games.

[zestalyn]

I never thought deeply about the Maker/elven gods in terms of my canon characters. I'm agnostic, so I generally don't care to think about the logic behind divine figures. I'm cool with people believing in what they want, but for me there is no point in affirming the reality of gods, and so the same goes for my DA toons' point of view. They'll never affirm this themselves until there is definitive proof. The whole topic has become even more convoluted ever since that whole thing about elves ruling the pantheon or whatever had come to light.

 

For me and my DA toons, faith is for faith's sake. They'll respect that, but they won't care to affiliate themselves with any belief system. They have a very 'lone wolf' approach to life.

[HK-90210]

Yes. Inquisition provides no empirical proof of existence/nonexistence of the Maker. Just a lot of evidence one way or another that all the while prove nothing either way. Just as the devs intended, and just like I hope they keep doing. No universe should ever be fully explained to the degree that we find out whether God is real or not. That truly is the greatest mystery of this life, and I firmly believe that no human mind can every fully unravel it. It's going to take death for any one of us to get the complete picture.

 

I also heartily disagree with the idea that faith isn't a virtue. I think faith can keep a person going through things that would kill most. I think faith is deeply ingrained into the human experience, and throwing that away is akin to throwing away many other things that make us human, such as hope or love or passion. Without these things, I see life as dull and pointless. Faith taken to such an extreme that it becomes zealotry is not a virtue, I agree. But faith as a whole? No, I consider that a good thing.

 

Since my point of view is grounded in Christianity, I am inclined to believe that the Maker is real, despite the fact that the Maker is hardly the God of the Bible. The idea of a universe that lacks an intelligent creator is, to me, a falsehood. And since one of the Elven Gods(Solas) has openly stated that they were not gods(though they did exist), and the Old Gods, while they don't fit perfectly into any particular category, lack some features that I tend to assign to gods in fiction, I am left with the Chant or whatever the Qunari believe(since Gaider has stated categorically that they are not atheists). Between those two, I'm going with the Chant.

 

All praise to the Maker. Andraste, save our souls.

[guntar74]

Nah my inquisitor doesn't really care about all that nonsense, but will he say he does to milk the approval of the masses and gain more sway and power absolutely!!

[Shahadem]

Mohammed didn't fail and get burned at the stake.

 

Neither did Andraste. The Maker was getting randy, so he had her husband betray her so that she would be burned at the stake and thus sent up to live at the Maker's side so the two of them could do the nasty.

[Shahadem]

A lot of Andrastean faith is suspect, but even so- there are oddities need pinning down.

 

The ashes of Andraste?  A real thing, apparently real ashes, with real power.

 

Cass' seeker abilities (in her discussion with Solas) make the world this side of the Fade "more real".   To paraphase him, where could that power come from, other than the Maker?   Given that 'magic' as Thedas currently knows it is drawing directly on the Fade, there aren't many alternatives for a counter-power.

 

{batshit crazy theories ahead}

 

Then again, I rather suspect Elves created the Dwarvish race in the same way they made Varterral, and knew what they were doing in terms of making them magic-resistant, something they refined in.... Crazy Part 2 : I think the Elves had a hand in the emergence of humans, though that may have been more of a transformative thing rather than a creation thing.  And I think the one responsible got in some serious trouble for it.   Then there's Crazy 3: the larger outline of the Andrastean story is a suspiciously comfortable fit for other myths that are floating around, as well as -ugh- Flemythal's story.  And -this hurts to say because it is nuts- starting up the slave rebellion and the whole Andrastean movement might have been what Solas'harel / Flemythal were up to in the years between giving Cory his orb and the modern day.  If at first you don't succeed, little wolf, try try again.

 

{/end batshit crazy}

 

So in the strictest sense?  I doubt the Andrastean Maker exists. In a broader sense, I suspect he's an amalgamation of the actions of 1+ ancient elves.  But the elves themselves had to come from somewhere, so... 

However the artifacts could simply be other things that were mistaken for sacred artifacts by the desperate Andrastrians.

 

"Andraste's ashes" after all just do the same type of healing that mages or enchantments or herbs do. So those ashes could be any combination of lyrium, enchantment, and herbs or even some undiscovered substance/technique or lost art.

[thats1evildude]

Yes, I still do.

The Andrastian faith never claimed that the other gods didn't exist, merely that the Maker stands above them. A lot of people forget that point.

[madrar]

However the artifacts could simply be other things that were mistaken for sacred artifacts by the desperate Andrastrians.

 

"Andraste's ashes" after all just do the same type of healing that mages or enchantments or herbs do. So those ashes could be any combination of lyrium, enchantment, and herbs or even some undiscovered substance/technique or lost art.

 

*slaps a hand to her forehead*  Wow, has my perspective changed since I wrote the post you quoted. 

 

It's worth noting that Andraste's ashes don't exactly do the same type of healing that mages, enchantments or herbs do: the whole point of the DA quest is that they work when all else does not.  That doesn't preclude the possibility that the same effect might be shared by other rituals, items, or magics- but if the Ashes are not unique in their power, knowledge of all other sources seems to have been lost.  

 

Back to the topic:  at this point, I think the Andrastean Maker was originally a half-fictional creation of Solas and Mythal, the Chant's description of primordial history a sanitized stand-in for what "should have" happened with regard to the creation of sentient life.  I think their intent was to provide humanity with the idea of a benevolent but ultimately non-interventionist Maker who didn't demand absolute obeisance or sacrifice and wanted nothing more from His creations than to embrace their own power to create and choose.  After the Chantry got started, however, the Maker became the rope in a tug-of-war between this original concept (personified in large part by the Sun, source of sentient free will) and the false Sun (Elgar'nan or a pre-Elgar'nan Chronos entity), just as Andraste (to a lesser extent) became between Mythal and Sylaise, and Dumat was between Dirthamen/Falon'Din and Elgar'nan in the age before.

 

As for the "real" Maker, that depends on what you're talking about Making.  I think the triad of the Sun + Elgar'nan/Chronos + Mythal/Earth each contributed a respective piece to sentient life on Thedas: Will, Life Spark, and Spirit.  The DA universe is fractal, however- on a macrocosmic scale, the universe itself can be considered an individual entity, pulling itself apart to figure out what it is and how it can change, and then putting itself back together.  What we know of as "gods" in this sense are nothing more than fragments of the whole: these fragments being essentially what OGSes are.  The ones we know of as pantheon Gods are bound, both to Thedas and to a duty that they govern, but I believe they're functionally the same as the 'eternal' piece of every individual that achieves ascension: a merger of will and spirit that literally passes beyond to become a star at the side of the Sun.   Destined (hopefully) to eventually once again collapse into a singularity to start the process all over again - the Big Bang / Big Crunch being the process of individuation on a cosmic scale. On an even larger scale, the game suggests we're dealing with a multiverse that includes our own, a sister universe to the game world whose help has been enlisted in a way that almost echoes the relationship between analyst and analysand.  Jungian psychology isn't my thing, but someone better versed in it than I would have a total field day with DAI.  =w=  

 

...and given that perspective?  We can't possibly know the ultimate Maker of the DA universe, any more than we can our own.  Personally, it seems like the writers have structured the game world to lead people toward a certain conclusion (fractally we are all Makers, or have the potential to be, and all the Maker) but they're not going to beat anyone over the head with it.  

 

Edit:  it just occurred to me that the triad might actually explain why the Ashes have their particular power: they're what's left when "the heart and the flame" of an ascended being leaves the body- which if somehow retained (possibly an effect of Hessarian's "mercy", converting her death to blood magic) would essentially be the residual Life spark.  

 

It feels like a stretch, but it's... possible?  I guess?

[Ashagar]

The maker is probably like this guy:

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Azathoth:

Not the God of Abraham.

Also just realized the Chantry is basically Islam done up in a European style. I mean, Andraste is basically the same as Mohammed.

 

Well there is always the Jewish prophet Joshua, ask the Canaanites how peaceful he was. But as others have likely noted Jesus and Joan of ark seem to Andreste's inspirations.

 

Makes me wonder given that background and the fact that the Maker was a Pre-old gods Tevinter god makes me wonder if there aren't some a few non-Andrestian Maker worshipers in Tevinter which already rejects the notion of Andreste being the maker's bride but holds her to only be a prophet, perhaps living in the hinterlands of the Imperium.

[X Equestris]

However the artifacts could simply be other things that were mistaken for sacred artifacts by the desperate Andrastrians.
 
"Andraste's ashes" after all just do the same type of healing that mages or enchantments or herbs do. So those ashes could be any combination of lyrium, enchantment, and herbs or even some undiscovered substance/technique or lost art.

On the point about the ashes, they do heal Eamon when neither mundane medicine nor healing magic did. There is that to consider.