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[Legion of 1337]

I've always found it interesting that people self project so much that even in a universe where the 'supernatural' is natural, where other objects of worship (the Old Gods, the Even Pantheon) are shown to exist, that they still make their characters atheist, because they themselves are atheist, and somehow think it makes as much sense to be one in Dragon Age as it does in real life.

 

I mean in real life I'm as atheist as any other, but in Dragon Age I've never found it to make sense. I mean FFS Corypheus literally went to heaven (or what used to be heaven). Yes, Bioware refuses to confirm the Maker's existence because that would invalidate all religions but those who believe in him, and remove the ability to roleplay as an atheist, but this is a fantasy setting with an alternate magical dimension and demi-gods; the liklihood that a supremely powerful entity, a step up from say the Old Gods (who are basically demi-gods, since they can be killed), is not very far fetched. Agnostic I'll accept, but outright rejection? No.

[Dieb]

I've always found it interesting that people self project so much that even in a universe where the 'supernatural' is natural, where other objects of worship (the Old Gods, the Even Pantheon) are shown to exist, that they still make their characters atheist, because they themselves are atheist, and somehow think it makes as much sense to be one in Dragon Age as it does in real life.

Yeah, this one's tricky (or maybe it isn't, and I'm just not really smart or good at roleplaying).

 

My Warden & Hawke were pretty much like most Christians today: "I don't really think about that stuff, I guess I'm a believer cause it saves me trouble of pondering over it and having to explain myself, also the notion seems very pleasant without the bad stuff".

 

My Inquisitor is deliberately atheist. Deliberately, as in aware of it being heavily suggested that at least some form of deity or origin of all things magical exists; to make him come across more bitter. It's less of a realization or deduction, and more a form of protest and a way to express weariness.

[Paragonslustre]

Yeah, this one's tricky (or maybe it isn't, and I'm just not really smart or good at roleplaying).

 

My Warden & Hawke were pretty much like most Christians today: "I don't really think about that stuff, I guess I'm a believer cause it saves me trouble of pondering over it and having to explain myself, also the notion seems very pleasant without the bad stuff".

 

My Inquisitor is deliberately atheist. Deliberately, as in aware of it being heavily suggested that at least some form of deity or origin of all things magical exists; to make him come across more bitter. It's less of a realization or deduction, and more a form of protest and a way to express weariness.

 

I'm the same, I'm not good at roleplaying although I accept the DA universe for what it is I will always respond how I would IRL because it's how I immerse myself.

 

Spoiler

Missing you and ThreeF in DrinkQuisition.

[esper]

I am agnostic in real life, but leaning towards the mystic

 

Personally I find harder to belief in divinity in Dragon Age and most fantasy setting because magic exist. It is hard to pull off miracles when any mage given time properly could to the same thing. The bar for what constitutes gods is suddenly much, much higher.

 

As for Dragon Age, I guess I believe in the Creators and the Avars religions since they are proveably real. (Even if the Creators seemed to be more of a pharo-like divinity, it is still different than the all omniscience of the Maker) 

 

Anyway. I find the Maker the worst god of any god in Thedas. For once I find him malvolent, but unlike flat out evil gods, his follower are not trying to appease him or hold his wrath or gain anything from worshipping him. Instead they try to bring the attention back of a god who their own text describes as temperthrowing child. Thedas gain nothing from getting his attention back, thus none of my characters will ever be devout andrastian.

 

My warden (circle mage) didn't care. What she did care about was the chantry who had locked her up.

 

My Hawke believed in the Maker but tried her damnest to doom her soul, since she would never want to return to the side of the creature who unleashed darkspawn onto the World and whose followers had tried to imprission and kill her, her whole life.

 

My Inqusitor is a dalish elf and believed in her own gods, and no there wasn't room for one more. She really disliked the andrastian as they forced "herald of Andraste" onto her.

[Dieb]

 

Personally I find harder to belief in divinity in Dragon Age and most fantasy setting because magic exist. It is hard to pull off miracles when any mage given time properly could to the same thing. The bar for what constitutes gods is suddenly much, much higher.

 

That's a fairly good point, actually. Haven't really followed the discussion until recently, so I don't know if it has been made yet.

 

But it also ties in with my personal perception, of gods being more or less indistiguishable from simply really powerful magic users.

[Precursor Meta]

Most people here despise religion. So Id say they didn't care for the Maker even before DAI's revelation. But I do still believe in him, and Andraste, and the chantry.

[Assassino01]

That gods exist in the DA universe seems indisputable. It's just that these gods are of the "Immortal supremely powerful but not omnipotent or invincible" kind. Mythal back in her prime must have been a force of awesome (in the proper sense) power, and even reduced to a wisp she still has some influence and insight into and over the world. 

 

The Maker though? If "he" exist I imagine him to be something like the Nightmare demon, a spirit feeding on the faith of andrastians perhaps? Massively powerful, and uncaring for the physical world.

[Catche Jagger]

I never make an outright athiest character, simply due to the fact that such a thing seems very rare within the setting. I can only think of Morrigan outright saying that there are no gods. The Qunari don't have any gods, but we cannot be a member of the Qun, so that's out the window.

People do tend to self imprint on this setting which is understandable. I however, tend to view things in Thedas off their own merit, so I'd say, based off our current knowledge, that the Maker does exist.

[Catche Jagger]

*double post*

[Fishy]

The Elven god remind me of this

 

Soldier: William Wallace is seven feel tall !

William : Yes I heard and he kill men by the hundred and fart lightning bolt from his ass. I am William Wallace !

 

While the maker remind me of the Christian god. Based solely upon Faith. The ''absent'' all knowing father who might ''choose'' some prophet etc.

 

The elven god just seem to be Elven with a lot of power. Maybe powerful mage or spirit. Nothing really that special. Through story and legend though they have become something more.

 

Same way some believed that roman emperor were descendant of Olympus god.

[Ashagar]

Interesting view though the maker being known to human possibly seems humanity's arrival in known Thadas as does the Avvar gods both apparently being brought from the north and west by humans in prehistory while Andreste was both born and died after the first blight.

[Helgagrim]

Nope.  I didn't believe in the Maker before Inquisition. I didn't even believe the Elven Gods were real prior to this game. Now, I do at least believe the Elven Gods existed, whatever they were.

[Aisabel]

I never believed the Maker actually existed. Ever since my millions of playthroughs of DA:O, DA2 and now DAI, I just can't see the Maker existing, I believe more in that they're like what Flemeth is- witches with weird and ancient powers and the ability to shapeshift. I believe they needed a reason for why things happen the way that people in real life need religion for. After this whole Corypheus, Golden City being empty,  Flemeth, Mythal, Solas, and Wolf thing, I've just chalked it up to the "gods" being people and mere stories that make them seem god-like. 

 

I still don't know what to think of the end of the game, really.

[In Exile]

Honestly, until we get a shared and acceptable definition of what a divine entity/god constitutes, this question goes nowhere.
For instance, I stand by the belief that the elven gods are proven to be gods in spite of Solas' claim to the contrary b/c they fit my requirements for what a god in fictional media would have: immortality, able to survive a physical death, great power that can greatly affect the physical makeup of the world, longevity, etc.

So Corypheus already was a god by your definition? He meets the criteria.

[Addai]

I suspect that the Maker is an impersonal force rather than a personal entity, though we've seen that even impersonal forces can take form and will- so, perhaps there is a being who thinks he's the Maker.

I hope it's not a small blue holographic child, or a reflection of the PC because we all see the Maker as we see ourselves, or something. I'd rather he be a big dude with a scepter who likes banging Fereldan chicks.

[Cz-99]

I suspect that the Maker is an impersonal force rather than a personal entity, though we've seen that even impersonal forces can take form and will- so, perhaps there is a being who thinks he's the Maker.

I hope it's not a small blue holographic child, or a reflection of the PC because we all see the Maker as we see ourselves, or something. I'd rather he be a big dude with a scepter who likes banging Fereldan chicks.

 

So... Zeus? 

[Lord Stark]

Yeah I do.  But I believe he abandoned the Golden City long before Corypheus and his buddies arrived, that's why his throne was vacant.   I think he's like Eru Ilúvatar and left the governance of Thedas to his version of the Maiar and Valar (the Elven Gods and the Old Gods) which eventually led to wars between them and the Blights.

[Dai Grepher]

Of course the Maker exists. There is plenty of evidence for it. First, the old gods are all buried underground just as the Chantry says. These old gods went from venerated and powerful to lost and locked away instantly and simultaneously. Only the Maker has the power to do that. Second, the Golden City did exist. It was corrupted and became the Black City. These facts were/are observable. It is also said that the City is the only constant thing in the Fade. This is because the Maker created it. He also gave physical power to the sin that the magisters brought with them into the City, which is why it remains there as well. Again, confirmed to be true by Corypheus, again proving the Chantry right. Third, Andraste did exist, and this is historically documented. She also had the ability to call on the Maker to devastate Tevinter. The natural disasters that befell them were also observed. Fourth, the Temple of Andraste shows the Guardian, who knew Andraste. He guards her ashes, which do have healing powers. Lyrium being in the general vicinity has nothing to do with it, as magic and lyrium were tried on Eamon and nothing worked. Magic infused ashes would not have worked either. So the ashes must have had special powers in them, and the Guardian confirms they are Andraste's ashes.

 

Another thing that's sort of proof, Leliana emerges unscathed if she is killed in the temple. I know it's more of a hand-wave than anything else, but you could look at it as proof that divine protection was placed over Leliana, one of the faithful. But I know this is just plot armor.

 

I think the elven pantheon is just a group of powerful spirits and/or mages. Solas states that he was too weak when he awoke from his slumber. A true "God" is never weak or powerless. The other so-called "gods" are locked away be hind eluvians. Mythal crawls through the ages like a parasite. The elven stories are also wrong, even according to an elf, Abelas. Their creation story is also ludicrous and sounds like a blatant fiction. As does the story of the slow arrow.

 

I think the elven pantheon will return as enemies to be slain in the coming games, much like the old gods.

[Korva]

I'm an atheist, but I frequently find it fascinating to roleplay believers, so my Inquisitor was always intended to be a devout if open-minded Andrastian and the Trevelyan family background was the perfect fit for her. The events of the game made her struggle with her faith at times, but in the end she made it through with it intact. As a player, I have no opinion one way or another -- partly because the setting honestly doesn't interest me enough to care much for what's going on beyond what's happening to my own characters and those close to them. So I'm happy with Bioware not wanting to confirm or deny the Maker's existence because that leaves the most RP options open.

[JadeDragon]

I don't believe in the maker because I am not andrastian but my characters do at least my human characters. Its a faith based religion and after the events my characters go thru some have stronger faiths then others. My Rogue Trevelyan>Warrior Cousland>Mage Hawke in order of how deep in faith my canon characters.

[lordsaren101]

There is only Dumat, all others are false.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

If you believe in the maker, then you believe he made this world and everything in it...

 

And if you do not, then nothing has changed.

 

 

 

It's fun playing a devout Andrastian and spreading the Chant of Light for some reason even though I don't care much for religion IRL.

[SwobyJ]

Nothing in DAI has disproven Andrastanism.

 

Nothing in DAI has proven Andrastanism.

 

Stuff has leaned more towards the Maker not existing.

Stuff has leaned more towards the Maker existing.

Stuff has learned more towards the Maker technically not existing, or rather technically existing in a way beyond our understanding.

 

DAI focuses more on concepts of faith and hope, and we can have our Inquisitor embody it towards the concept of the Maker. Wait for a future game with different themes if you want more substantial lore on whether the Maker exists (even though the word so far from Bioware is that they'll never outright prove the Maker's existence).

 

DAI does have the plus of giving us... material. We have not just the more common knowledge of Thedas (DAO), or the opinions on the ground (DA2), but more specialized and exclusive knowledge that may inform us (DAI). 

 

While the elven gods seem more explained and propped up, they also have been put down..

While the Old Gods are explained as powerful, they ALSO have been put down.

 

I don't think the Maker will end up escaping this treatment. It may end up being the strongest force in Dragon Age, yet still have elements that both disprove much of the Chantry and only 'prove' the Maker's existence in a rather more subjective way than the Chantry likes to depict. Still a magical force though, and still possibly the most powerful single magical force in Dragon Age, and still possibly a force from beyond the known Dragon Age World, so yeah. Whether one could legitimately call it 'The Maker' may always 'depend'.

 

For me, I don't believe in The Maker. I believe in A Maker. What that Maker means is still something I'm waiting for more lore on. DAI wants me to hope (as an option at least). Okay. I won't be generic-response Warden, and I won't be Maker-disregarding Hawke (he doesn't seem to really care tbh), but I'll at least be a hopeful Inquisitor. I 'hope' that this leads to something greater, and more illumination on the nature of the Maker, which has to be something, considering the bizarre fabric of reality that makes up 'Thedas'/'The Fade'.

 

 

 

One big thing that DAI has done is shown that mainline Andrastanistic assumptions are pretty much wrong. That much has changed over the centuries and messages have been distorted, so yeah, we can pretty much not ally with the 'Current Chantry' (as of the start of DAI I mean). That's the Inquisition's whole deal. But it doesn't mean that Andrastanism itself is wrong.

 

 

 

My main male human mage Inquisitor is a skeptic but not utterly against the role and beliefs given/presented to him. Agnostic really. Reflection of me, etc. But while he starts off unsure, he becomes increasingly negative about Chantry concepts and instead tries to look for something more (cue Solas and the Elven act of the plot).

 

I just made a (Nightmare Mode) female dwarf warrior Inquisitor and she'll be an interesting one. She'll be not really allied with the Chantry or care so much about this surfacer stuff (though she's somewhat used to the surface), yet she'll be gradually swept up in the journey and gain a sort of faith. Maybe not utter adherence to Andrastanism, but at least A faith that the Maker and Andraste were involved in what has happened.