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[Heimdall]

*snip*

I doubt they'll ever give us anything conclusive on the Maker.

 

If I recall, David Gaider said in an early interview that what turned him off about DnD settings was that none of the gods required faith because they were all matters of fact, known quantities.  George R.R. Martin said similar things about the lack of religious faith and ritual in Tolkein's universe.  I tend to agree with them both.  Some things are better left unknown.

 

Now, Gaider may be gone and they may explore the truth of the elven gods and the Old Gods, but I doubt the Maker will receive the same treatment in order to preserve ambiguity.

[SwobyJ]

I doubt they'll ever give us anything conclusive on the Maker.

 

If I recall, David Gaider said in an early interview that what turned him off about DnD settings was that none of the gods required faith because they were all matters of fact, known quantities.  George R.R. Martin said similar things about the lack of religious faith and ritual in Tolkein's universe.  I tend to agree with them both.  Some things are better left unknown.

 

Now, Gaider may be gone and they may explore the truth of the elven gods and the Old Gods, but I doubt the Maker will receive the same treatment in order to preserve ambiguity.

 

Good thing I'm not looking for anything conclusive. It would defeat the purpose. 

 

I just want *more info*. I'm glad DAI gave me some. I want more. lol

 

I'm willing to RP on faith but not so much just because other mortal characters go 'this deity is true!'. I'd like more manifestations of the Maker's power. Ashes of Andraste are weak. Inquisitor matters are still too weak for me. More can be done, even if we may never be able to conclusively say 'This was the Maker!'

 

To put it simply, I want more Maker matters, not less. Even as the main story of the next game may not focus on it (but really, the main story of Inquisition seemed not to focus on Elves and look what that brought us).

 

I like some smaller hints, like Cullen's description of what they hear from (blue) lyrium... and how it seems to alter Templar personalities, etc. And what spirits of faith do to people as well.

[AssassinCactus]

I would like to think he exists in this universe I hope they give a a straight forward answer in later games just because there is so much they could look at Elder scrolls where the gods do exist and they have so many quests and lore relating to both I hope that both the Maker and The old elven gods are proven to exist not in a big way where everyone knows just your character 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Yes. The Maker is you.

 

 

And the writers/devs.

[Lazarillo]

In a weird way, the writers leaving the nature of the Maker ambiguous means he must exist.  Because to maintain ambiguity, then they have to write in events in such a way, that at least some characters might be able to justify their faith.  Thus, unlike reality, where you could argue between guided "miracles" or miracles "coincidence", in fiction, miracles must happen for the sake of maintaining the possibility.  And if miracles are created by the writers for the sake of ambiguity, then the writers become hand of the Maker in-setting.

 

That said, I don't have a belief one way or the other about the Maker in-setting and prefer to be able to keep it that way.  I feel like too many fantasies try to deal with their entire respective cosmologies, and things start getting kind of trite when you delve too deeply into religion, especially when religions get inevitably proven false, because, hey, shock value.  Admittedly, after the precedent set by DA2 and Inquisition, I certainly want some freaking answers at this point, so they're going to have to get into some of it, but I just hope they don't dip too deeply.

[Ieldra]

In a weird way, the writers leaving the nature of the Maker ambiguous means he must exist.  Because to maintain ambiguity, then they have to write in events in such a way, that at least some characters might be able to justify their faith.  Thus, unlike reality, where you could argue between guided "miracles" or miracles "coincidence", in fiction, miracles must happen for the sake of maintaining the possibility.  And if miracles are created by the writers for the sake of ambiguity, then the writers become hand of the Maker in-setting.

Not true. Things that people interpret as miracles must happen - and that does happen all the time, since the only requirement for that is that an event doesn't have an immediately apparent explanation. Even more to the point, in the real world, people believe in miracles even after they've been explained.
 

That said, I don't have a belief one way or the other about the Maker in-setting and prefer to be able to keep it that way.  I feel like too many fantasies try to deal with their entire respective cosmologies, and things start getting kind of trite when you delve too deeply into religion, especially when religions get inevitably proven false, because, hey, shock value.  Admittedly, after the precedent set by DA2 and Inquisition, I certainly want some freaking answers at this point, so they're going to have to get into some of it, but I just hope they don't dip too deeply.

As much as I'd personally like to see the Maker disproven, I don't think it's possible, nor is it required. The idea is structurally immune to falsification, similar to solipsism or the idea we're all living in a computer simulation, which means that all one can do is argue that it's implausible on lack of evidence, and people who want to believe will always be able to cling to the last miniscule fraction of uncertainty we can't remove. The same, of course, does not apply to historical events. I want to know what really happened in the Black City, and I think they should answer that at some point. Regardless of what happened, some people will always believe the hand of the Maker was in it, but the events speak for themselves and I want to know.

 

Edit:

While the Maker can't be disproven, it's quite possible to destroy the belief in him by other means. It all depends on how they want to deal with the "faith" theme. I think it's likely they want it to stay intact, i.e. faith remains an important theme, simply because it appears to be a human constant in the real-world and regardless of our personal opinions about faith, removing it from the world would lessen our connection to it.

[Jackums]

I believe the Maker, the Creators, The Forgotten Ones, and the Old Gods are all real, though most if not all of them aren't in fact gods (in the sense of being omni-potent/scient), but rather are simply comparatively powerful beings. I also believe there's an overlap with the Creators/Forgotten Ones and Old Gods, if not two of the three being entirely synonymous (Old Gods = Creators, or Old Gods = Forgotten Ones).

 

If there is any truly omnipotent being in the in-game universe, my bet is it would be the Maker and that they will remain ambiguous.

[Bizantura]

The Maker reflect someting a lot of people in real life believe, so some will be influenced by that and per usual start wars over it.  

[Aren]

The Maker reflect someting a lot of people in real life believe, so some will be influenced by that and per usual start wars over it.  

i will start an exalted march!

[Dabrikishaw]

Man it's been a long time since I posted in this topic but I'll think what I said bears repeating. 

 

The Maker is functionally nonexistent because his existence will never be anything more than ambiguous. 

[SwobyJ]

Man it's been a long time since I posted in this topic but I'll think what I said bears repeating. 

 

The Maker is functionally nonexistent because his existence will never be anything more than ambiguous. 

 

The Maker is functionally existent because his existence will always be something supported.

[Dieb]

At the risk of turning this into an even more circular argument, I think it is more important to ask what a god is, and where the borderline between "really powerful caster of magic" and "god" lies. We have people casting what we would consider miracles, routinely and for convenience, and we have an entire race which used to be supposedly eternal. Numerous people said this before, yet everyone really just finds differently elaborate ways of doing so.

 

If I may be so bold, maybe a more productive, preliminary question would be:

 

If this entity constantly having been referred to finally shows itself, would we be impressed?

[Dabrikishaw]

 

The Maker is functionally existent because his existence will always be something supported.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean the Maker will matter as anything more than a plot device narratively or that he actually exists at all. That was the only point I was making with my post.

[Reznore57]

At the risk of turning this into an even more circular argument, I think it is more important to ask what a god is, and where the borderline between "really powerful caster of magic" and "god" lies. We have people casting what we would consider miracles, routinely and for convenience, and we have an entire race which used to be supposedly eternal. Numerous people said this before, yet everyone really just finds differently elaborate ways of doing so.

 

If I may be so bold, maybe a more productive, preliminary question would be:

 

If this entity constantly having been referred to finally shows itself, would we be impressed?

 

It's really hard to tell , you'd have to define what is "divine".

As far as I can tell  it's some form of being who's got something more than mere mortals and has some form of religion/cult/worship attached to it.

Some gods in mythology are far from perfect or omniscient or good or whatever.

[Dieb]

It's really hard to tell , you'd have to define what is "divine".

As far as I can tell  it's some form of being who's got something more than mere mortals and has some form of religion/cult/worship attached to it.

Some gods in mythology are far from perfect or omniscient or good or whatever.

 

If we went ahead & chose greek mythology specifically, the differences between mortals and gods were (please correct me if I'm wrong) basically three things:

 

1) Eternal life (not invincibility)

2) Superhuman prowess, yet limited to a very specific field

3) Being the aspect or personification of certain virtues and/or phenomena

 

For all intents and purposes, Spirits and Demons would qualify - even though the matter of free will or desire to partake in the life of mortals is a little shaky there.

 

One further interesting point going down that road, which doesn't seperate but rather makes greek gods even more akin to mortals, is progeny. It's probably due to the limitations of the people who came up with it (my opinion, not meaning to insult the faith of religious believers in the old patheon), but that adds even more "flaws" and restrictions to them, primarily it must mean a timeline that actually applies to them.

[Jaison1986]

The maker might be real, but rather then an actual immortal all seeing onimpotent god, the maker would likely be an being of magic. 

 

I think the ambiguous argument got tossed out of the window the moment they decided to reveal the true nature of the elven gods. Who were not gods in the slightly but mortal individuals with great power. BW would be biased at the very least if they decide to reveal everything about the elves while leaving the maker on a open note.

[Heimdall]

I think the ambiguous argument got tossed out of the window the moment they decided to reveal the true nature of the elven gods. Who were not gods in the slightly but mortal individuals with great power.

They revealed no such thing about the elven gods

 

What we know for sure about the elven gods is this: they existed as physical beings of great power

 

Nothing else has been confirmed (Though they may not be mortal considering Mythal's ability to still be kicking around despite being murdered).  Morrigan said that she believed the elven gods were just powerful mages but seems less convinced of that opinion by the reveal of her mother's identity.  Solas suggested that they might have been spirits, or mages, "or something else that we haven't seen yet".  Considering his feelings about the term god, I'm not sure how much his input is worth on them not being gods.  Neither confirmed anything.

[Jaison1986]

They revealed no such thing about the elven gods

 

What we know for sure about the elven gods is this: they existed as physical beings of great power

 

Nothing else has been confirmed (Though they may not be mortal considering Mythal's ability to still be kicking around despite being murdered).  Morrigan said that she believed the elven gods were just powerful mages but seems less convinced of that opinion by the reveal of her mother's identity.  Solas suggested that they might have been spirits, or mages, "or something else that we haven't seen yet".

 

Solas is the very living proof that the elven gods were just people, and all they did was about magic, and not divinity.

[The Oracle]

I don't think the Maker will ever be explored, as they have him as an all seeing, powerful, omnipotent being floating around in the Sky/Fade/Ether. The Elvhen gods seemed to be represented more like the Greek Gods. More visible, getting involved in things, prone to misjudgements and errors etc. I think that Bioware may explore more Elvhen Gods, perhaps the origins of the Dwarves and Titans, perhaps more about the Old Gods and Dragons etc. I think the Maker, however, will forever be a mystery.

[Dieb]

Solas suggested that they might have been spirits, or mages, "or something else that we haven't seen yet".  Considering his feelings about the term god, I'm not sure how much his input is worth on them not being gods.  Neither confirmed anything.

 

Furthermore, they never outright said that Fen'Harel himself has ever been a god in the same sense as Mythal, Andruil, etc.

 

Just because we know Solas, doesn't mean he's the model elven deity. He might not even be one at all.

[Heimdall]

Solas is the very living proof that the elven gods were just people, and all they did was about magic, and not divinity.

No he isn't, Cole implies that there's something very peculiar about Solas' nature. Naturally he's evasive about it, like he is about everything else.
 
Cole: You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places.
Solas: I visit the Fade regularly. Perhaps you are sensing traces of it.

Perhaps, eh?  The only reason he seemed like a regular mage was because he was cut off from the majority of his power, which he had apparently sequestered in his orb. Though I don't know what you mean by this "magic not divinity" business. I mean only to say that there's very little to definitively indicate that the elven gods were just people and quite a lot to indicate they were something more, whether or not you want to apply the term "god".

[Bayonet Hipshot]

My characters are apatheists of sorts in that give zero f**ks about the Maker and they do not worship the Maker.

 

He could exist or he could not. They don't care. Why ? Because you can never know they answer, you cannot prove or disprove his existence and you cannot suggest a scientific alternative to the formation of the Thedosian universe.

 

In the real world, we can use evolution, quantum astrophysics and the like to either disprove or suggest a scientific alternative to deities. In Thedas we cannot.

[Aren]

 Because you can never know they answer, you cannot prove or disprove his existence and you cannot suggest a scientific alternative to the formation of the Thedosian universe.

 

 

He is  canadian and he abandoned his creation.

[jedidotflow]

He is  canadian and he abandoned his creation.

 

So if everyone sings the chant, Gaider will come back?

[Yaroub]

So if everyone sings the chant, Gaider will come back?

 

Lol, this is legit, sing the chant that it may reach his ears.