first of all:
why would the damage of pure magical abilities solely be influenced by my WEAPON's DPS ??
Anyway,
if so - is the BASE dps decisive for that or the damage including upgrades like runes, etc?
Need to know that because I have 2 good weapons that differ in their base damage and total dps.
first of all:
why would the damage of pure magical abilities solely be influenced by my WEAPON's DPS ??
Presumably a staff functions like a magic wand, amplifying the mage's magical capability.
I believe skills say weapon damage, so if you have a sword with 130 damage and 170 dps, it will do more damage with a skill that uses 200% weapon damage than an axe with 118 damage and 205 dps.
I don't know if runes add to ability damage. I do think I remember seeing chain lightning pop up blue and purple numbers when I shoot it, blue for the lightning and purple for the spirit?
Includes runes as far as I'm aware. I think it uses total weapon dps.
Includes runes as far as I'm aware. I think it uses total weapon dps.
The thing is, weapon DPS factors in attack speed, so lower damage items might have higher dps in some cases. I believe skills use a weapon's actual damage number, not the total DPS. So if I use a skill for 200% weapon damage, and my sword is 150 damage and 200 DPS, the skill would do 300 and not 400. But I do believe I have seen elemental damage numbers from runes pop up when I use skills.
The thing is, weapon DPS factors in attack speed, so lower damage items might have higher dps in some cases. I believe skills use a weapon's actual damage number, not the total DPS. So if I use a skill for 200% weapon damage, and my sword is 150 damage and 200 DPS, the skill would do 300 and not 400. But I do believe I have seen elemental damage numbers from runes pop up when I use skills.
Well, on my rogue I can do 5500 damage with a Twin Strike, that would never happen if it just took the weapon damage rather than weapon deeps.
Well, on my rogue I can do 5500 damage with a Twin Strike, that would never happen if it just took the weapon damage rather than weapon deeps.
There are a lot of modifiers to factor in though, flank bonus, crit bonus, dexterity, willpower, stealth bonus, % attack bonus.
There are a lot of modifiers to factor in though, flank bonus, crit bonus, dexterity, willpower, stealth bonus, % attack bonus.
Turning 150 into 3k is a 20x modifier.
Turning 150 into 3k is a 20x modifier.
You may be right, I'm just speculating since the skills says "deal X% weapon damage" and not "deal X% weapon DPS".
This all assumes there aren't any flaws in the back end math that's calculating things. It's been documented in Mass Effect 3 MP that there are "errors" where bonuses are multiplicative when they should likely have been additive (and vice versa). A good example is the Human Adept's melee, which multiplies Melee bonus unlike most other character melees. This can create an externally hard hitting melee attack.
It's why I am not a fan of hiding the math. In a Co-Op semi-strategy game like this neither we nor the Devs benefit when the Devs hide the numbers from us. For a start it means we can't double check and make sure things are working correctly.
Although in a way the argument over Base Damage and DPS being used is almost irrelevant. Each class only uses one type of weapon, which all have the same attack rate within their type. If different two-handers swing at different speeds then it would have been appropriate to list the attack rates in the stat blocks (again why hiding the math and numbers is bad).
"Although in a way the argument over Base Damage and DPS being used is almost irrelevant. Each class only uses one type of weapon, which all have the same attack rate within their type. If different two-handers swing at different speeds then it would have been appropriate to list the attack rates in the stat blocks (again why hiding the math and numbers is bad)."
This is not completely true. For example one-handed swords swing slower than one handed-axes, which is why I've had axes that had lower weapon damage, but higher DPS than the sword. This could come into play when deciding what weapon to use on Templar vs Legionnaire, since Templar combo might work better with the sword but Legionnaire using all auto attacks to do damage would prefer the axe. That is if skills work off of weapon damage, and not the weapon damage over one second.
It seems to me that the upgrade to twin fangs doesn't just add %100 weapon damage but doubles the damage of the base skill. Or at least the numbers you get make more since that way. 800% weapon damage + crit damage modifiers per hit. Then again, I don't know what the crit damage bonus is.
^ I believe crit damage bonus is 40%
I did a quick test to see if I could get an idea of how abilities worked. I took my level 1 assassin on routine, took off my accessories, and equipped two inquisition daggers, 30 damage, 70 DPS. An auto-attack on a Venetori archer did 20-23 damage per swing. Casting twin fangs to his face, no stealth, was getting two 41-45 damage numbers. So it seems at least this ability works off of the base weapon damage and not the total DPS. Since it was taking 200% of my one swing damage on each of the twin fang hits.
Turning 150 into 3k is a 20x modifier.
When I take my assassin and give her a 100 base damage dagger. I get 41% more damage on it from my attack stat making it 141.
1000% weapon damage using twin fangs, 2020% after critical damage bonus which sits at 102%. Add your damage bonus passives for now I'll stick with only cull the herd and it's 3030% weapon damage. 3969% weapon damage after my 31% flank damage modifier.
39.69 * 141 = 5596 damage. On my 100 base damage that's almost an 56x modifier. That's a pretty painful critical flank attack. Now add the fact that I have stealth up almost all the time thanks to "I was never here" and stealth adds another 50% damage. Also guarantees that 102% critical damage I'm running with to kick in. Of course you have a lot more damage passives and sometimes no cull the herd instead. Enemies also have a small amount of armor that reduces your damage after "Base * Attack" in the calculation. Some of that armor you ignore from stealth due to a passive. On the other hand my dagger is bigger than 100 base damage. 
That 20x modifier is pretty easy to get and doing 5k with twin fangs is a piece of cake especially talking about a 150 base damage dagger.
Base crit damage is indeed 40%. Base flank damage modifier is 25%. Skills use your damage and not DPS this is obvious and why lower DPS weapons are sometimes preferrable on warriors.
Edit: Seems I accidentally looked at the wrong weapon as my 2nd weapon. I actually have 41.5% attack, 109% Crit damage bonus and 37% flank. Using 2 white daggers.
When I take my assassin and give her a 100 base damage dagger. I get 41% more damage on it from my attack stat making it 141.
1000% weapon damage using twin fangs, 2020% after critical damage bonus which sits at 102%. Add your damage bonus passives for now I'll stick with only cull the herd and it's 3030% weapon damage. 3969% weapon damage after my 31% flank damage modifier.
39.69 * 141 = 5596 damage. On my 100 base damage that's almost an 56x modifier. That's a pretty painful critical flank attack. Now add the fact that I have stealth up almost all the time thanks to "I was never here" and stealth adds another 50% damage. Also guarantees that 102% critical damage I'm running with to kick in. Of course you have a lot more damage passives and sometimes no cull the herd instead. Enemies also have a small amount of armor that reduces your damage after "Base * Attack" in the calculation. Some of that armor you ignore from stealth due to a passive. On the other hand my dagger is bigger than 100 base damage.
Base crit damage is indeed 40%. Base flank damage modifier is 25%. Skills use your damage and not DPS this is obvious and why lower DPS weapons are sometimes preferrable on warriors.
Edit: Seems I accidentally looked at the wrong weapon as my 2nd weapon. I actually have 41.5% attack, 109% Crit damage bonus and 37% flank. Using 2 white daggers.
Sorry if this is a silly question, but are you talking ~5k damage per dagger on twin fangs, or just one?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but are you talking ~5k damage per dagger on twin fangs, or just one?
Damage on twin fangs greatly varies and armor messes with it a lot even though we pierce 50% we take 200% evening it out because twin fangs is 2 separate hits. But that 5k would be both daggers. The skill does 1000% weapon damage in total with 500% coming from each weapon. 2x 5k is possible though under the right circumstances.
Right now with a 325 and 300 DPS dagger (126 and 115 damage) going into threatening and using twin fangs from stealth I'm hitting anywhere from 2.9k/2.5k to 3.2k/2.7k per skill use. These tests are without Cull the herd, and the 2nd strike loses out on First blood passive. It would in return benefit from throat cutter but I haven't picked that up yet. Daggers go up to 174 damage so I still need to get me some extreme luck as it stands my daggers are my worst quality items of all of my weapons, even though I play sin 90% of the time. 
1. Does twin fangs and flank strike use one dagger's damage and then the other?
2. Does shadow strike just use the primary dagger's damage?
3. Does poison blades only use the primary dagger's damage?
4. Do passives like "heal 1% on hit" or "10% chance to apply poison" only proc when that dagger hits in the attack chain or on each dagger's hit?
It's been a lot of guesswork in choosing which daggers to use. Seems like AOE daggers are pretty bad since your abilities will not hit as hard. I just replaced my off hand level 22 rare aoe dagger for a level 20 common dagger that does 10 more damage. Wish it was more clear in game.
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. For DoT yes right hands dagger damage for determining poison damage afaik, +25% damage from upgrade goes to both
4. Every hit should apply all procs.
AoE daggers are pretty bad. Their damage is lower and you cannot chase enemies with their animation you will hit once and start spinning in place while the enemy just walks away. It lacks good forward movement during its animation. The extra damage you'd get from hitting a lot of enemies bundled up isn't worth it you can do a mini "AoE" with flank attack and twin fangs.
Thank you!!1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. For DoT yes right hands dagger damage for determining poison damage afaik, +25% damage from upgrade goes to both
4. Every hit should apply all procs.
AoE daggers are pretty bad. Their damage is lower and you cannot chase enemies with their animation you will hit once and start spinning in place while the enemy just walks away. It lacks good forward movement during its animation. The extra damage you'd get from hitting a lot of enemies bundled up isn't worth it you can do a mini "AoE" with flank attack and twin fangs.
Damage on twin fangs greatly varies and armor messes with it a lot even though we pierce 50% we take 200% evening it out because twin fangs is 2 separate hits. But that 5k would be both daggers. The skill does 1000% weapon damage in total with 500% coming from each weapon. 2x 5k is possible though under the right circumstances.
Right now with a 325 and 300 DPS dagger (126 and 115 damage) going into threatening and using twin fangs from stealth I'm hitting anywhere from 2.9k/2.5k to 3.2k/2.7k per skill use. These tests are without Cull the herd, and the 2nd strike loses out on First blood passive. It would in return benefit from throat cutter but I haven't picked that up yet. Daggers go up to 174 damage so I still need to get me some extreme luck as it stands my daggers are my worst quality items of all of my weapons, even though I play sin 90% of the time.
Hmmm. Something is definitely wrong with my setup
I have a +10% attack ring, +10 dex neck (5% atk 10% chd) and a +10% chd ring helping me out. My sin was Lv18 when I took those numbers. My daggers have updated since I got a 2nd higher damage white this afternoon, woohoo. But the dex on it is quite a bit lower so it looks like I just nerfed myself losing too much atk and chd. They both have 7 dex and 6% flank damage bonus now. (Crafted grip only, they came with bleed, broken stat) Twin Fangs is hitting consistently for around 2750 per dagger.
Noticed something wierd though I'd like to test more gonna reset my assassin again. I did have cull the herd passive but only used twin fangs on grouped enemies in my previous tests. I used twin fangs on lone mobs too this time and the damage is the same. 
Looks like stealth might be forcing cull to proc even on grouped enemies. Or cull doesn't even work at all on abilities.
I have a +10% attack ring, +10 dex neck (5% atk 10% chd) and a +10% chd ring helping me out. My sin was Lv18 when I took those numbers. My daggers have updated since I got a 2nd higher damage white this afternoon, woohoo.
Noticed something wierd though I'd like to test more gonna reset my assassin again. I did have cull the herd passive but only used twin fangs on grouped enemies in my previous tests. I used twin fangs on lone mobs too this time and the damage is the same.
Is it ok if I post my build and set up later and you help me try to do the math? I'm clueless.
I realised I aslo didn't take cull of the herd for some crazy reason. I wasted a point on evade.
Retour en haut
